A real problem with the United States of America

originally posted by: network dude
Going forward, is this how we do things now? I do want to know how we as a nation evolve from this fiasco. Do we automatically start a resistance campaign against the guy we didn’t want to win and weaponized any and all government agencies we have IN OUR CONTROL AT THE TIME?

I ask because a serious conglomerations of events took place, and a whole lot of laws were bent, hidden, or outright ignored. The most important law that was disregarded is the Constitution. Our forefathers enacted a system of government to be used for our nation. In it, was provisions for electing leaders. That system lays out the process in a fairly simple way, so that constitutional lawyers and leaders can understand it, and act accordingly. When we think something is broken, those crafty old dudes even provided for that, an amendment.

So rather than go about fixing what must have been a YUGE mistake that allowed an outsider to be elected by the people, our leaders (both sides if you buy into that) decided to use some out of the box thinking, and just blatantly use the dirty tricks book they had been operating out of with impunity. Well, now that we know a good deal of what happened, and likely will hear a whole lot more in the coming weeks about just how bad things actually were/are, what can be done to correct this course?

I don’t have the answers, all I have is questions. That, and a few facts that seem to point to a serious problem. It’s time to forget about right vs left, and I don’t like Trump cuz he’s orange. It’s time to focus on the corrupt system that allowed this mess to happen in the first place. If Trump is really a bad leader, the next election should sort that out, so we don’t need to spend a whole lot of time rehashing old lies. He did enough dumb things that are factual to hold up an argument, as well as the good things equally as factual.

So where do we go from here? Ignore it and hope it goes away? Prosecute the mail room guy and call it a win? Or do we go the hard route and try to fix this at it’s core? Is integrity worth the cost?

The root of all of this is simple and doesn't require thousands of words to explain.

Secret courts are bad.

It really is that simple.

So instead of just saying "A lot of rules were bent and broken" and that laws were also broken, how about specific examples? Ones that you know, would actually hold up in a court of law, not just your vague interpretation of the law.

Also it's effing hilarious how Trump does all he can to work around Congress instead of with Congress, but hey.. that's apparently different.

Tell me - if Obama when he took office said on national television that it would be great if Russian hackers found emails - and then there was known Russian hacking and interference, and a known meeting between Obama's kid and Russians - would you have simply ignored it, said it's a big nothing-burger, or would you have demanded an investigation? And I already know the answer to that question.

a reply to: network dude

the same is happening in the UK , party politics is ruining democracy !

originally posted by: GenerationGap

originally posted by: network dude
Going forward, is this how we do things now? I do want to know how we as a nation evolve from this fiasco. Do we automatically start a resistance campaign against the guy we didn’t want to win and weaponized any and all government agencies we have IN OUR CONTROL AT THE TIME?

I ask because a serious conglomerations of events took place, and a whole lot of laws were bent, hidden, or outright ignored. The most important law that was disregarded is the Constitution. Our forefathers enacted a system of government to be used for our nation. In it, was provisions for electing leaders. That system lays out the process in a fairly simple way, so that constitutional lawyers and leaders can understand it, and act accordingly. When we think something is broken, those crafty old dudes even provided for that, an amendment.

So rather than go about fixing what must have been a YUGE mistake that allowed an outsider to be elected by the people, our leaders (both sides if you buy into that) decided to use some out of the box thinking, and just blatantly use the dirty tricks book they had been operating out of with impunity. Well, now that we know a good deal of what happened, and likely will hear a whole lot more in the coming weeks about just how bad things actually were/are, what can be done to correct this course?

I don’t have the answers, all I have is questions. That, and a few facts that seem to point to a serious problem. It’s time to forget about right vs left, and I don’t like Trump cuz he’s orange. It’s time to focus on the corrupt system that allowed this mess to happen in the first place. If Trump is really a bad leader, the next election should sort that out, so we don’t need to spend a whole lot of time rehashing old lies. He did enough dumb things that are factual to hold up an argument, as well as the good things equally as factual.

So where do we go from here? Ignore it and hope it goes away? Prosecute the mail room guy and call it a win? Or do we go the hard route and try to fix this at it’s core? Is integrity worth the cost?

The root of all of this is simple and doesn't require thousands of words to explain.

Secret courts are bad.

It really is that simple.

Seems like common sense to me.

That's something many ppl are short on these days.

Americans were always beyond that mentality....

Respect the election process, respect the winner. Respect the position.

Its some real 3rd world stuff when people think they can remove a president if it's not their winner.

3rd world mentality has citizens revolting over every little thing they dont like.

I don't see conservatives being so arrogant.

There is something very off with the liberal mentality.

I don't see conservatives being so arrogant.

That's a hilarious statement. This site has reeked of mudpit-posted, conservative arrogance since Trump took office.

I'm still a little baffled how it's treason to investigate a possible crime. I have a feeling Mueller in particular was completely above board with his investigation - if someone with their infinite legal knowledge would like to point out an actual crime committed by Mueller and his team, I'd to hear it.

And again - there is NO doubt.. none at all, that if the same smell surrounded Obama when he took office, all of you who are complaining would not just be OK with an investigation, you'd have demanded it! You know it's true - stop acting like this was a special witch hunt against Trump. Had he not made stupid comments on TV, had they not had a meeting, if Trump didn't have special interests monetarily in Russia, and had there not been Russian interference around the same time, this wouldn't have been a thing.

originally posted by: DAVID64
This is nowhere near over.
The Dems have shown they are willing to do anything to get/stay in power and they don't give a damn who they hurt doing it. They will continue the attacks on Conservatives and anyone who doesn't follow the groupthink .
There is no middle ground with these folks and I'm f**king tired of trying.

what the hell are you talking about?...the republicans controlled the house for 8 straight years. and still control the senate....deal in reality and someone might believe what you say

republicans are not capable of helping poor people get ahead, it's not in their nature....they help the wealthy get wealthier on the backs of the poor and middle class...they have done this for decades, and will continue to do so.....this isn't opinion, this is what actual legislation that they have voted on and passed, has done to our society.

originally posted by: GenerationGap

originally posted by: network dude
Going forward, is this how we do things now? I do want to know how we as a nation evolve from this fiasco. Do we automatically start a resistance campaign against the guy we didn’t want to win and weaponized any and all government agencies we have IN OUR CONTROL AT THE TIME?

I ask because a serious conglomerations of events took place, and a whole lot of laws were bent, hidden, or outright ignored. The most important law that was disregarded is the Constitution. Our forefathers enacted a system of government to be used for our nation. In it, was provisions for electing leaders. That system lays out the process in a fairly simple way, so that constitutional lawyers and leaders can understand it, and act accordingly. When we think something is broken, those crafty old dudes even provided for that, an amendment.

So rather than go about fixing what must have been a YUGE mistake that allowed an outsider to be elected by the people, our leaders (both sides if you buy into that) decided to use some out of the box thinking, and just blatantly use the dirty tricks book they had been operating out of with impunity. Well, now that we know a good deal of what happened, and likely will hear a whole lot more in the coming weeks about just how bad things actually were/are, what can be done to correct this course?

I don’t have the answers, all I have is questions. That, and a few facts that seem to point to a serious problem. It’s time to forget about right vs left, and I don’t like Trump cuz he’s orange. It’s time to focus on the corrupt system that allowed this mess to happen in the first place. If Trump is really a bad leader, the next election should sort that out, so we don’t need to spend a whole lot of time rehashing old lies. He did enough dumb things that are factual to hold up an argument, as well as the good things equally as factual.

So where do we go from here? Ignore it and hope it goes away? Prosecute the mail room guy and call it a win? Or do we go the hard route and try to fix this at it’s core? Is integrity worth the cost?

The root of all of this is simple and doesn't require thousands of words to explain.

Secret courts are bad.

It really is that simple.

How do you feel about secret meetings with communist despots?

www.usatoday.com...

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: DAVID64
This is nowhere near over.
The Dems have shown they are willing to do anything to get/stay in power and they don't give a damn who they hurt doing it. They will continue the attacks on Conservatives and anyone who doesn't follow the groupthink .
There is no middle ground with these folks and I'm f**king tired of trying.

what the hell are you talking about?...the republicans controlled the house for 8 straight years. and still control the senate....deal in reality and someone might believe what you say

republicans are not capable of helping poor people get ahead, it's not in their nature....they help the wealthy get wealthier on the backs of the poor and middle class...they have done this for decades, and will continue to do so.....this isn't opinion, this is what actual legislation that they have voted on and passed, has done to our society.

What do you want to do to help poor ppl "get ahead"?

Hundreds of millions of $ have been spent on social programs for everything from job training, to straight up welfare, and it has all been wasted.

I don't have a problem giving someone a helping hand, but it's cant be open ended.

I understand some ppl are disabled, or whatever, but there is no reason an able bodied person shouldn't pulltheir own weight.

If you cant afford children, don't have them.
Get a job, or two if necessary. If you don't want to work for small wages, aquire a marketable skill. Welfare should be temporary, not a way of life.

I have been in the job market for over 30 years, and have never been out of work for more than a couple of weeks.

NO FREE RIDES, period.

I can neither support nor defend the violent overthrow of the United States government.

Let the system work. It has built-in checks and balances and error correction.

However, if the "problem" is that the nation no longer addresses your needs as a citizen because of changes in socioeconomics or demographics, then maybe it's time for you to find a new country more suitable. Plenty of them out there. We don't have walls built to keep people in.

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: DAVID64
This is nowhere near over.
The Dems have shown they are willing to do anything to get/stay in power and they don't give a damn who they hurt doing it. They will continue the attacks on Conservatives and anyone who doesn't follow the groupthink .
There is no middle ground with these folks and I'm f**king tired of trying.

what the hell are you talking about?...the republicans controlled the house for 8 straight years. and still control the senate....deal in reality and someone might believe what you say

republicans are not capable of helping poor people get ahead, it's not in their nature....they help the wealthy get wealthier on the backs of the poor and middle class...they have done this for decades, and will continue to do so.....this isn't opinion, this is what actual legislation that they have voted on and passed, has done to our society.

Do you actually believe that? So the green new deal is gonna help the poor and middle class?
Poor people can't wait to be forced to buy a 100,000$ Tesla, or move into a new "energy efficient" house with that cost 10 times more than what they pay now. Then the cry for socialism because everyone is broke due to these policies, that make just living life unaffordable. Guess who pays to subsidise these poor people? That would be the middle class. Then they will be knocked down the rung to poverty level because of the massive tax increases to fund all of this garbage. So no, Democrats aren't for poor people and the middle class. They need poor people that are desperate enough to believe socialism is the cure to poverty.