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Bernie Sanders Calls for New Zealand-Style Gun Ban in U.S.

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posted on Mar, 24 2019 @ 09:25 AM
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originally posted by: Mach2
a reply to: face23785

Not saying you meant to be condescending, but I know they are similer. Some weapons accept either. The remington round can be fired from a rifle chambered for 5.56. I know you knew that.

I was just trying to make a point to the woefully uninformed poster.


Truth. I have a Ruger AR-556. It fires both 5.56 and .223.

I like to tell the anti-gun nuts that the AR-556 is 37x deadlier than an AR-15.




posted on Mar, 24 2019 @ 09:39 AM
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So, let's try a different approach. What solutions do you all suggest to try to curtail the ever increasing rate of gun deaths in the USA? Almost 40,000 in 2017 and it's only getting worse. What do you think is the best way forward with this?



posted on Mar, 24 2019 @ 09:53 AM
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originally posted by: NeuronDivide
So, let's try a different approach. What solutions do you all suggest to try to curtail the ever increasing rate of gun deaths in the USA? Almost 40,000 in 2017 and it's only getting worse. What do you think is the best way forward with this?


Again, you are making a broad statement, without looking at facts.

A majority of firearm deaths in the US are suicides, with homicide a long way behind in second place. The remainder, of around 1200 as a result of accident, law enforcement etc.

Don't misunderstand me, suicide is not something to ignore, but anothers mental instability is not a reason to my rights away.

everytownresearch.org...


Of those homicides, a high percentage are urban gang on gang, or gang on innocent bystander. These same urban areas have some of the most restrictive gun policies by the way.

The first thing to do, IMO, is come down hard on criminal activity in those areas. Sadly, when this is suggested, the immediate response is RACISM.

Does this shed any light on the real situation, as opposed to the rhetoric that you hear?


edit on 3242019 by Mach2 because: Clarify

edit on 3242019 by Mach2 because: Sp



posted on Mar, 24 2019 @ 10:05 AM
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a reply to: NeuronDivide

2/3 of gun related deaths in the US are suicides.

www.vox.com...

Of the real homicides, most occured in a few counties in the US.

US murders concentrated in 5 percent of counties
www.foxnews.com...

In 2014, the U.S. murder rate was 4.4 per 100,000 people, according to the data of the report. If the deadliest 5 percent of the counties were removed, the U.S. murder rate would be 2.56 per 100,000 people, the report showed.

On average, 73 percent of counties in any given year had zero murders from 1977 to 2000.

“While many factors explain these concentrated murders, it is also striking that the counties with zero murders are the counties with by far the highest gun ownership rates,” Lott said.



posted on Mar, 24 2019 @ 10:09 AM
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originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: NeuronDivide

2/3 of gun related deaths in the US are suicides.

www.vox.com...

Of the real homicides, most occured in a few counties in the US.

US murders concentrated in 5 percent of counties
www.foxnews.com...

In 2014, the U.S. murder rate was 4.4 per 100,000 people, according to the data of the report. If the deadliest 5 percent of the counties were removed, the U.S. murder rate would be 2.56 per 100,000 people, the report showed.

On average, 73 percent of counties in any given year had zero murders from 1977 to 2000.

“While many factors explain these concentrated murders, it is also striking that the counties with zero murders are the counties with by far the highest gun ownership rates,” Lott said.


More inconvenient facts. And the media doesn't care about minorities getting slaughtered in urban areas, so this gets no coverage. A bunch of white kids get shot in school? Weeks of coverage, despite that being a statistically small problem. You can save far more lives if you focused on inner-city violence, but black lives don't matter in the gun debate, apparently.



posted on Mar, 24 2019 @ 10:11 AM
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originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: NeuronDivide



“While many factors explain these concentrated murders, it is also striking that the counties with zero murders are the counties with by far the highest gun ownership rates,” Lott said.


Interesting, and very telling. Thanx for posting.
edit on 3242019 by Mach2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2019 @ 10:21 AM
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originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: NeuronDivide

2/3 of gun related deaths in the US are suicides.

www.vox.com...

Of the real homicides, most occured in a few counties in the US.

US murders concentrated in 5 percent of counties
www.foxnews.com...

In 2014, the U.S. murder rate was 4.4 per 100,000 people, according to the data of the report. If the deadliest 5 percent of the counties were removed, the U.S. murder rate would be 2.56 per 100,000 people, the report showed.

On average, 73 percent of counties in any given year had zero murders from 1977 to 2000.

“While many factors explain these concentrated murders, it is also striking that the counties with zero murders are the counties with by far the highest gun ownership rates,” Lott said.


More inconvenient facts. And the media doesn't care about minorities getting slaughtered in urban areas, so this gets no coverage. A bunch of white kids get shot in school? Weeks of coverage, despite that being a statistically small problem. You can save far more lives if you focused on inner-city violence, but black lives don't matter in the gun debate, apparently.


I think you are overstating the racial component. I hate that innocent bystanders are often caught in the crossfire, irrespective of skin color, but I don't lose any sleep when gang bangers, and drug dealers kill each other, again, irrespective of skin color.

The blame lays primarily at the feet of those in power in those communities. It has come to the point that police won't even go into certain parts of Chigago, where 20 murders is just an average weekend. How the hell is that whiteys fault?



posted on Mar, 24 2019 @ 10:21 AM
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originally posted by: Mach2

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: NeuronDivide



“While many factors explain these concentrated murders, it is also striking that the counties with zero murders are the counties with by far the highest gun ownership rates,” Lott said.


Interesting, and very telling. Thanx for posting.


Lott has done a lot of great research on gun violence. Of course, he's continuously labeled as an NRA shill by the left, despite there being zero evidence he has anything to do with the NRA. And they can't refute any of his research. They occasionally try to claim he's been "debunked" by xyz "expert," but if you look into it the "expert" used shoddy methods. Lott always publishes rebuttals to these "debunkers" and then they fail to respond to his rebuttal.



posted on Mar, 24 2019 @ 10:24 AM
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originally posted by: Mach2

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: NeuronDivide

2/3 of gun related deaths in the US are suicides.

www.vox.com...

Of the real homicides, most occured in a few counties in the US.

US murders concentrated in 5 percent of counties
www.foxnews.com...

In 2014, the U.S. murder rate was 4.4 per 100,000 people, according to the data of the report. If the deadliest 5 percent of the counties were removed, the U.S. murder rate would be 2.56 per 100,000 people, the report showed.

On average, 73 percent of counties in any given year had zero murders from 1977 to 2000.

“While many factors explain these concentrated murders, it is also striking that the counties with zero murders are the counties with by far the highest gun ownership rates,” Lott said.


More inconvenient facts. And the media doesn't care about minorities getting slaughtered in urban areas, so this gets no coverage. A bunch of white kids get shot in school? Weeks of coverage, despite that being a statistically small problem. You can save far more lives if you focused on inner-city violence, but black lives don't matter in the gun debate, apparently.


I think you are overstating the racial component. I hate that innocent bystanders are often caught in the crossfire, irrespective of skin color, but I don't lose any sleep when gang bangers, and drug dealers kill each other, again, irrespective of skin color.


Fair enough. I still think it's disingenuous of the media to freak out when some lowlife gets killed by a cop though, but when they're killing each other and taking innocent bystanders with them, it's a non-story. Race may not be an issue to you or I, but it's the media's bread and butter.



The blame lays primarily at the feet of those in power in those communities. It has come to the point that police won't even go into certain parts of Chigago, where 20 murders is just an average weekend. How the hell is that whiteys fault?



I don't disagree with any of that. The places infolurker pointed out that drive the majority of US gun violence are almost entirely Democrat-controlled and have been for years.



posted on Mar, 24 2019 @ 10:43 AM
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originally posted by: NeuronDivide
I'd say restrict access to both of them


Thankfully that isn't going to happen.



posted on Mar, 24 2019 @ 10:45 AM
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a reply to: face23785

A disingenuous media? The hell you say.

That is a huge problem with respect to many issues in this country.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure anything can be done about it as long ppl don't take a skeptical approach, and think for themselves.

To you point about this specific issue, in a situation like Baltimore, or Chicago, when it's the same story day after day after day, is it really newsworthy any more.

One guy I work with often brings up weekly Chicago murder numbers, and chuckles a bit.

His chuckles are not, however, ones of happiness, they are more SMH sadness.

There does come a point where ppl outside of the situation become numb. That's just human nature.



posted on Mar, 24 2019 @ 10:53 AM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: NeuronDivide
I'd say restrict access to both of them


Thankfully that isn't going to happen.


Nor should it. It wouldn't change anything here. It's a feel-good measure for people who just want to "do something" instead of actually examining the real issues. That's too hard. We're living in a world where people think they can cause some kind of existential change with a hashtag campaign. Who wants to do actual research and come up with elaborate, nuanced solutions?



posted on Mar, 24 2019 @ 10:58 AM
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originally posted by: Mach2
a reply to: face23785

A disingenuous media? The hell you say.

That is a huge problem with respect to many issues in this country.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure anything can be done about it as long ppl don't take a skeptical approach, and think for themselves.

To you point about this specific issue, in a situation like Baltimore, or Chicago, when it's the same story day after day after day, is it really newsworthy any more.

One guy I work with often brings up weekly Chicago murder numbers, and chuckles a bit.

His chuckles are not, however, ones of happiness, they are more SMH sadness.

There does come a point where ppl outside of the situation become numb. That's just human nature.


Unfortunately the only thing we could do about the media would require more diligence on our part as a whole (the public), so I'm not optimistic. I wrote a little rant about it last year.
edit on 24 3 19 by face23785 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2019 @ 10:34 PM
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a reply to: NeuronDivide




Have you ever read the second amendment? Do you know why it was written? Please go right now and read it and you will understand why.






The Bolsheviks made Russians turn in their guns, before they slaughtered them by the millions. When someone in government is trying to disarm the population, one should ALWAYS be suspicious of it. ALWAYS.

The founders understood this all too well. Patrick Henry alludes to it in reference to the threat the British were at the time posing to the colonies:





Three millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations; and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave.

edit on 24-3-2019 by openminded2011 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 28 2019 @ 10:29 AM
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originally posted by: NeuronDivide

My definition of an assault weapon (as uneducated as it may be) is a long barrelled,

There are short barrels you can buy for semi-automatic rifles, to make them not fit this definition and be classed as pistols. sales are skyrocketing in the US...



high calibre rifle that is capable of shooting very accurately over long distances,


Personal skill is what produces accuracy. semi-automatic (self-loading) rifles are inherently less accurate than bolt action rifles. Part of this is because the action doesn't fit as precisely. Part is because the self-loading action introduces vibration into gunner's ability to aim it. In the final analysis, accuracy is a function the the individual shooter's skill, and the time s/he takes to aim at the target. The human factor is at least 80% of accuracy.

Most semi-auto rifles shoot bullets that are only functionally accurate to 300 meters on the range, 100 meters in the field. Slow single shot bolt action rifles can shoot 800 meters on the range, maybe 500 in the field, but take many seconds to aim, work the action and set up the next shot.

Again, individual skill is the deciding factor.



can discharge a large number of bullets in a very short amount of time,


I can cycle my pump-action shotgun faster than most semi-auto shotguns when I am duck hunting with friends. Again, the shooter's skill is the deciding factor.



and the damage it inflicts is lethal, i.e one shot, one kill


As a former law enforcement officer, who has been with people and tried to help them as they died, I can tell you that I never saw anyone die in less than 60 seconds from any attack, whether gun, knife, or baseball bat. The gun fatalities I tried to help each took at least 2 minutes to die. One took 10.

An assassin's rifle is about the only thing that can promise "one shot-one kill." They are slow, and require a spotter to help set up the shot. They are almost never used in "killing sprees". They require superlative skill on the part of the individual shooter.

The statistics show that any pistol less than .45 requires at least 2 shots to drop an assailant 60% of the time. That is, "drop them", in the sense of make them quit attacking you. It still takes minutes for them to die.



posted on Mar, 28 2019 @ 10:29 AM
link   

originally posted by: NeuronDivide

My definition of an assault weapon (as uneducated as it may be) is a long barrelled,

There are short barrels you can buy for semi-automatic rifles, to make them not fit this definition and be classed as pistols. sales are skyrocketing in the US...



high calibre rifle that is capable of shooting very accurately over long distances,


Personal skill is what produces accuracy. semi-automatic (self-loading) rifles are inherently less accurate than bolt action rifles. Part of this is because the action doesn't fit as precisely. Part is because the self-loading action introduces vibration into gunner's ability to aim it. In the final analysis, accuracy is a function the the individual shooter's skill, and the time s/he takes to aim at the target. The human factor is at least 80% of accuracy.

Most semi-auto rifles shoot bullets that are only functionally accurate to 300 meters on the range, 100 meters in the field. Slow single shot bolt action rifles can shoot 800 meters on the range, maybe 500 in the field, but take many seconds to aim, work the action and set up the next shot.

Again, individual skill is the deciding factor.



can discharge a large number of bullets in a very short amount of time,


I can cycle my pump-action shotgun faster than most semi-auto shotguns when I am duck hunting with friends. Again, the shooter's skill is the deciding factor.



and the damage it inflicts is lethal, i.e one shot, one kill


As a former law enforcement officer, who has been with people and tried to help them as they died, I can tell you that I never saw anyone die in less than 60 seconds from any attack, whether gun, knife, or baseball bat. The gun fatalities I tried to help each took at least 2 minutes to die. One took 10.

An assassin's rifle is about the only thing that can promise "one shot-one kill." They are slow, and require a spotter to help set up the shot. They are almost never used in "killing sprees". They require superlative skill on the part of the individual shooter.

The statistics show that any pistol less than .45 requires at least 2 shots to drop an assailant 60% of the time. That is, "drop them", in the sense of make them quit attacking you. It still takes minutes for them to die.



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