New Zealand Mass Murderer is a Far Left-winger.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

OP will call left wing conspiracy to all of this because it's written by Professors in the field and will argue more rubbish about economic intervention which I have tried to point out is not the sole bastion of the left. This is more for the benefit of others. An ABC Australia article on exactly this argument. Article by:

Matthew Fitzpatrick, Associate Professor of International History at Flinders University. A. Dirk Moses, Professor of Modern History at the University of Sydney, and the author of German Intellectuals and the Nazi Past.

www.abc.net.au...

It's a very long article, I've quoted one section of it that gets to the meat of the issue.

Under Hitler, the party looked squarely to the middle classes and farmers rather than the working class for a political base. Hitler realigned it to ensure that it was an anti-socialist, anti-liberal, authoritarian, pro-business party - particularly after the failed Beerhall Putsch of 1923. The "socialism" in the name National Socialism was a strategically chosen misnomer designed to attract working class votes where possible, but they refused to take the bait. The vast majority voted for the Communist or Social Democratic parties.

The minority anti-capitalist strand of Nazism (Strasserism) on which van Onselen fastens was eliminated well before 1934, when Gregor Strasser and the Storm Trooper (SA) leader Ernst Roehm were murdered with over eighty others in the "Night of the Long Knives." In fact, Strasserism had already been defeated at the Bamberg Conference of 1926 when the Nazis were polling under 3% of the vote. Here, Hitler brought the dissidents back into line, denouncing them as "communists" and ruling out land expropriations and grassroots decision-making. He heightened the party's alliance with businesses small and large, and insisted on the absolute centralisation of decision-making - the "Fuehrer (leader) Principle."

When the already isolated Strasser brothers tried to reinvigorate their project one last time in 1930, Hitler and Goebbels banded together to force Otto Strasser to leave the party and Gregor Strasser to publicly recant. When the first electoral breakthrough to a popular vote of 18% came in 1930, the Nazi party's anti-capitalist minority were well and truly defeated. The "Night of the Long Knives" purged the old SA, not because they were a hidden vestige of socialism, but because Roehm's army of street thugs were a potential threat to Hitler's personal consolidation of power. A struggle over socialism in the Nazi party played absolutely no role in the purge of 1934.

For their part, businesses welcomed the Nazis' promises to suppress the left. On 20 February 1933, Hitler and Goering met with a large group of industrialists when Hitler declared that democracy and business were incompatible and that the workers needed to be dragged away from socialism. He promised bold action to protect their businesses and property from communism. The industrialists - including leading figures from I.G. Farben, Hoesch, Krupp, Siemens, Allianz and other senior mining and manufacturing groups - then contributed more than two million Reichsmarks to the Nazi election fund, with Goering tellingly suggesting that this would probably be the last election for a hundred years. Business leadership happily jettisoned democracy to rid Germany of socialism and to smash organised labour.

After fighting four elections between 1930 and 1933 on an anti-left and anti-Jewish platform that pledged to slay the mythical beast of "Judeo-Bolshevism," Hitler became Chancellor in 1933 and made good on his promises to business and his voters to destroy socialism in Germany. Most of 1933 was spent persecuting socialists and communists, liquidating their parties, incarcerating and in numerous cases killing their leadership and rank-and-file members.

Trade unions had been in Hitler's sights since a general strike paralysed a right-wing-coup (Kapp Putsch) in 1920. He had witnessed the striking workers and vowed that never again would organised labour prevent the right coming to power. It was the left (trade unions and Jews), after all, that he and others on the right thought had "stabbed" the nation in the back on the home-front to cause the loss of the First World War. By early May 1933, the trade unions had been destroyed. German socialism was in tatters. Not for nothing did Nazis say that the "ideas of 1933" (their national-racial "revolution") had vanquished those of "1789" - namely, the French Revolution and its ideals of equality, fraternity and liberty that have animated the left ever since.

For all the Nazi talk of "four-year plans" and the "guidance of the state," the sanctity of private property and freedom of contract was always preserved under the Nazis, even during the war years. Socialism - in particular, Bolshevism - on the other hand, were pernicious, "Jewish" imports that threatened the vitality of the German Volk.

I promise I really am done with this ridiculous discussion now

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

I'm not a leftist. I think the shooter is a mercenary working for globalist interests.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

As I clicked on this thread, I thought to myself, "I have no desire to know or care whether this guy is right or left, but all we've heard about is how he was a right wing extremist brought to light by Trump's rhetoric." And that makes a thread like this a breaking news thread and totally worth the knowledge of knowing in my opinion. How much more egg can the democrats wear before they finally stop with the knee jerk reacting?

S&F

originally posted by: LSU2018
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

As I clicked on this thread, I thought to myself, "I have no desire to know or care whether this guy is right or left, but all we've heard about is how he was a right wing extremist brought to light by Trump's rhetoric." And that makes a thread like this a breaking news thread and totally worth the knowledge of knowing in my opinion. How much more egg can the democrats wear before they finally stop with the knee jerk reacting?

S&F

From an Australian perspective, (the shooter was Australian), not much to do with Trump or Democrats really, except to say that the neo-nazi movement in Australia have sort of morphed into the harder edge of the Alt-right movement since Trump. But this has origins that go back way before Trump was on the scene and is more about contemporary internet culture than Trump.

originally posted by: harold223

originally posted by: LSU2018
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

As I clicked on this thread, I thought to myself, "I have no desire to know or care whether this guy is right or left, but all we've heard about is how he was a right wing extremist brought to light by Trump's rhetoric." And that makes a thread like this a breaking news thread and totally worth the knowledge of knowing in my opinion. How much more egg can the democrats wear before they finally stop with the knee jerk reacting?

S&F

From an Australian perspective, (the shooter was Australian), not much to do with Trump or Democrats really, except to say that the neo-nazi movement in Australia have sort of morphed into the harder edge of the Alt-right movement since Trump. But this has origins that go back way before Trump was on the scene and is more about contemporary internet culture than Trump.

It's just funny when Trump gets the blame all the time. He hasn't done anything wrong except for beat the democrats and throw the insults back at them. If neo-Nazi or alt-right movements have ramped up in other countries because of him, it's solely because of the rhetoric being pushed by our media outlets, those are the ones that extend to other countries. It's the same media and DNC that painted a target on the backs of our police officers.

originally posted by: LSU2018

originally posted by: harold223

originally posted by: LSU2018
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

As I clicked on this thread, I thought to myself, "I have no desire to know or care whether this guy is right or left, but all we've heard about is how he was a right wing extremist brought to light by Trump's rhetoric." And that makes a thread like this a breaking news thread and totally worth the knowledge of knowing in my opinion. How much more egg can the democrats wear before they finally stop with the knee jerk reacting?

S&F

From an Australian perspective, (the shooter was Australian), not much to do with Trump or Democrats really, except to say that the neo-nazi movement in Australia have sort of morphed into the harder edge of the Alt-right movement since Trump. But this has origins that go back way before Trump was on the scene and is more about contemporary internet culture than Trump.

It's just funny when Trump gets the blame all the time. He hasn't done anything wrong except for beat the democrats and throw the insults back at them. If neo-Nazi or alt-right movements have ramped up in other countries because of him, it's solely because of the rhetoric being pushed by our media outlets, those are the ones that extend to other countries. It's the same media and DNC that painted a target on the backs of our police officers.

Rupert Murdoch in the case of Australia. The article I linked to above, in the beginning (not the part I quoted) talks about how the Murdoch press in Australia are directly trying to claim that Nazi Germany was left wing, as the OP of this thread is. Murdoch holds a powerful position in Australian media. The evil bastard is an Aussie was born in my home town.

For the record, whilst not a fan of him, I don't blame Trump for this killers actions or the rise of the Alt-right in Australia. That has a history that goes back to the late 90's, early 2000's and is a domestic Australian issue to do with immigration and some peoples opposition to it. Also actions of the Murdoch press and certain Australian politicians.

originally posted by: harold223

From an Australian perspective, (the shooter was Australian), not much to do with Trump or Democrats really, except to say that the neo-nazi movement in Australia have sort of morphed into the harder edge of the Alt-right movement since Trump. But this has origins that go back way before Trump was on the scene and is more about contemporary internet culture than Trump.

The shooter has far left-wing views, yet you keep claiming he is an "alt-right member" and you keep on blaming POTUS Trump for the crimes committed by a far left-winger?

LSU2018 is right, just like many other members who see the truth.

I have never stated that there are no crimes/atrocities committed by right-wing extremists. But the truth is clear for those of us who would rather investigate the reasons for this beast's attack on innocent people, than to just believe the left-wing mainstream media who keep on lying about tragic events such as this one just to keep on with their narrative to blame all on the right.

I still haven't seen you not even ONCE try to prove how the beliefs held by this murderer are "right-wing." All you, and some others, keep doing is deny, deny, deny and repeat the false narrative of "he is alt-right..." This is the same type of false claim made by the same left-wing mainstream media which also keeps on falsely claiming that "Trump supporters and Trump are alt-right..."

All i see is people like you can't admit the truth, and you would rather keep believing the lies the "left-wing mainstream media" keeps on telling you, than actually learn the truth.

a reply to: harold223

Yet again, another "far-leftwinger's claim..."

In this thread there are links to a WWII survivor from Austria who pointed out how the policies implemented by nazi Germany on Austria were socialist. I have even excerpted from a philosopher, and economist who was there, experienced the policies of nazi Germany and he stated they were socialist.

In this thread, an in others, I have also posted how "socialists and communists of different branches are enemies against people of other left-wing branches" when there is no common enemy. Stalin ordered the death of Lenin and Trotsky. The castro brothers ordered the execution of many socialists. Hitler himself ordered the execution of hundreds of nazi officers who were a threat.

Heck, even China and the U.S.S.R. had/have a policy of murdering "the people they call useful idiots" (left-wingers who serve/d the purpose of the far-left but could become a threat.)

...
When we think of Nazi killing, genocide immediately comes to mind, particularly that of "6,000,00 Jews." But they also murdered for reasons other than race or religion. For one, the Nazis slew those who opposed or hindered them, whether actually or potentially. This was why Hitler assassinated hundreds of top Nazi SA's (Sturmabteilung)4 in June and July 1934, who under Ernst Rohm were becoming a strong competitor to the SS (Schutzstaffel); or executed perhaps 5,000 Germans after the 1944 plot on his life and attempted coup d'etat. Indeed, it is why critics, pacifists, conscientious objectors, campus rebels, dissidents, and others throughout the twelve-year history of the regime in Germany, were executed, disappeared, or slowly died in concentration camps. The Nazis thus killed some 288,000 Germans, not counting Jews, homosexuals, and those forcibly "euthanized." If these are included, then the Nazis murdered at least 498,000 Germans, probably 762,000. As shown in table 1.2, this was one out of every hundred Germans.
...

www.hawaii.edu...

This is what socialists/communists do when they have control over a nation. They turn on each other like ravenous wolves after they win against capitalism.

Germany was not a capitalist nation, just like China is not a capitalist nation. In nazi Germany, like in China today, only those loyal to the far-left-wing regime can/could "use capitalism" to their advantage. But it has also been shown here how Hitler himself stated that those people who he allowed to control businesses owed everything to the state, and belonged to the state.

...
To put it quite clearly: we have an economic programme. Point No. 13 in that programme demands the nationalisation of all public companies, in other words socialisation, or what is known here as socialism. … the basic principle of my Party’s economic programme should be made perfectly clear and that is the principle of authority… the good of the community takes priority over that of the individual. But the State should retain control; every owner should feel himself to be an agent of the State; it is his duty not to misuse his possessions to the detriment of the State or the interests of his fellow countrymen. That is the overriding point. The Third Reich will always retain the right to control property owners. If you say that the bourgeoisie is tearing its hair over the question of private property, that does not affect me in the least. Does the bourgeoisie expect some consideration from me?… Today’s bourgeoisie is rotten to the core; it has no ideals any more; all it wants to do is earn money and so it does me what damage it can. The bourgeois press does me damage too and would like to consign me and my movement to the devil.

Hitler's interview with Richard Breiting, 1931, published in Edouard Calic, ed., “First Interview with Hitler, 4 May 1931,” Secret Conversations with Hitler: The Two Newly-Discovered 1931 Interviews, New York: John Day Co., 1971, pp. 31-33. Also published under the title Unmasked: Two Confidential Interviews with Hitler in 1931 , published by Chatto & Windus in 1971

www.reddit.com...

They were not free to do as they wished with their businesses. They had to build what the state/hitler told them to. They had to sell their products at the prices that hitler/the nazis told them to. (Wage and price controls were also implemented in nazi Germany, which is another socialist policy.) They had to use the labor force that hitler/the nazis told them to use. They could only sell to those people hitler/the nazis told them they could sell their products to, etc, etc. The control of all property was in fact in the hands of hitler/the nazis.

I could keep on posting more, but it won't serve any purpose. BTW, CLAIMS don't equal to proof. Not once in that link you gave do they prove how those policies implemented by the nazis were "right-wing." Instead, like many other revisionists do, they just claim the nazis were right-wing... Just like the revisionists in the mainstream media claim that this murderer is "far-right-wing" despite the fact that he is "far-left-wing."

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

The shooter has far left-wing views, yet you keep claiming he is an "alt-right member" and you keep on blaming POTUS Trump for the crimes committed by a far left-winger?

And you keep ranting on about Gandhi and Hitler, who both died over 70 years ago... As if they've got anything to do with modern day left & right wing political ideology.

The fact is, this guy didn't target a crew of forest loggers or japanese whalers, or whoever else you'd stereotypically expect a modern day leftist extremist to target.

This guy specifically targeted islamic immigrants! That's as stereotypically MAGA hat wearing right wing extremist as it comes.

You really should just man up and own it!

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

And you keep ranting on about Gandhi and Hitler, who both died over 70 years ago... As if they've got anything to do with modern day left & right wing political ideology.

It matters because people like you, in your ignorance, embrace the same ideas that the nazis and other far left-wingers embraced in the past, and you call them "new ideas" despite the fact that they are older than you are.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
The fact is, this guy didn't target a crew of forest loggers or japanese whalers, or whoever else you'd stereotypically expect a modern day leftist extremist to target.

This guy specifically targeted islamic immigrants! That's as stereotypically MAGA hat wearing right wing extremist as it comes.

You really should just man up and own it!

He targeted Muslims because Muslims breed more than whites do... It has been stated how this murderer talked about "over-population and the need to depopulate the Earth to save it..." But of course you are going to try to claim "that's a right-wing belief..."

BTW...many "far left-wing regimes" also talk about "invaders trying to invade their countries..." Chavez used to do it, fidel castro used to do it, raul castro still claims the same, and Maduro does it almost daily...

Tell how the following, which is part of what this murderer wrote, is "right-wing belief..."



The "belief" in over population and the need to kill people to save the environment/Earth is NOT a right-wing belief...

In fact there are many far left-wing professors, and philosophers who have called to cull over population by even releasing plagues upon the world... That's a far left-wing belief...

It matters because people like you, in your ignorance, embrace the same ideas that the nazis and other far left-wingers embraced in the past, and you call them "new ideas" despite the fact that they are older than you are.

Lol.

Did you read and address the article I posted above?.

For their part, businesses welcomed the Nazis' promises to suppress the left. On 20 February 1933, Hitler and Goering met with a large group of industrialists when Hitler declared that democracy and business were incompatible and that the workers needed to be dragged away from socialism. He promised bold action to protect their businesses and property from communism. The industrialists - including leading figures from I.G. Farben, Hoesch, Krupp, Siemens, Allianz and other senior mining and manufacturing groups - then contributed more than two million Reichsmarks to the Nazi election fund, with Goering tellingly suggesting that this would probably be the last election for a hundred years. Business leadership happily jettisoned democracy to rid Germany of socialism and to smash organised labour.

Hitler became Chancellor in 1933 and made good on his promises to business and his voters to destroy socialism in Germany. Most of 1933 was spent persecuting socialists and communists, liquidating their parties, incarcerating and in numerous cases killing their leadership and rank-and-file members.

For all the Nazi talk of "four-year plans" and the "guidance of the state," the sanctity of private property and freedom of contract was always preserved under the Nazis, even during the war years. Socialism - in particular, Bolshevism - on the other hand, were pernicious, "Jewish" imports that threatened the vitality of the German Volk.

Written by:

Matthew Fitzpatrick, Associate Professor of International History at Flinders University. A. Dirk Moses, Professor of Modern History at the University of Sydney, and the author of German Intellectuals and the Nazi Past.

www.abc.net.au...

You're the one making the bold and universally unaccepted claims man, not me.

Why do I bother, he's never going to listen lol.

Deny Ingnorance.

Only a moron would actually believe this POS is left wing.

Oh look, another [left wing] bigot right here on ATS!
Boy, why do those left wingnuts get so mad when muslims exist?
Alt Left

originally posted by: MyToxicTash
Only a moron would actually believe this POS is left wing.

The killer moved in right wing online communities. The killer himself was just straight up crazy more than anything. What gets me about the OP is stating that the Nazi's were left wing or somehow communist. That's just straight up incorrect. Trying to re-write the history books lol.

originally posted by: harold223

The killer moved in right wing online communities. The killer himself was just straight up crazy more than anything. What gets me about the OP is stating that the Nazi's were left wing or somehow communist. That's just straight up incorrect. Trying to re-write the history books lol.

Nope, the ones who have been rewritting history are you and left-wingers like you... From the claim that "socialism is great" and "the people own and control the means of production", which is a lie. To claiming that these socialist policies the nazis implemented were "right-wing..." lol

BTW, we got the writings of that lunatic, and despite the fact that he states he is left-wing you keep on claiming he is rightwing... Extreme environmentalism is not "right-wing..." "Nationalization, taking over industries controlled by the state/nazis is not a right-wing policy..." The "belief in over population, and the need to murder people to save the environment/Earth" is a far left-wing belief....

BTW, for every moron left-wing historian that claims the nazis were right-wing, there are historians, economists, etc, who say the nazis were left-wing... The truth is in those policies I mentioned, which you, nor your left-wing friends, can't refute are left-wing policies/laws...

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: harold223

The killer moved in right wing online communities. The killer himself was just straight up crazy more than anything. What gets me about the OP is stating that the Nazi's were left wing or somehow communist. That's just straight up incorrect. Trying to re-write the history books lol.

Nope, the ones who have been rewritting history are you and left-wingers like you... From the claim that "socialism is great" and "the people own and control the means of production", which is a lie. To claiming that these socialist policies the nazis implemented were "right-wing..." lol

BTW, we got the writings of that lunatic, and despite the fact that he states he is left-wing you keep on claiming he is rightwing... Extreme environmentalism is not "right-wing..." "Nationalization, taking over industries controlled by the state/nazis is not a right-wing policy..." The "belief in over population, and the need to murder people to save the environment/Earth" is a far left-wing belief....

BTW, for every moron left-wing historian that claims the nazis were right-wing, there are historians, economists, etc, who say the nazis were left-wing... The truth is in those policies I mentioned, which you, nor your left-wing friends, can't refute are left-wing policies/laws...

For their part, businesses welcomed the Nazis' promises to suppress the left. On 20 February 1933, Hitler and Goering met with a large group of industrialists when Hitler declared that democracy and business were incompatible and that the workers needed to be dragged away from socialism. He promised bold action to protect their businesses and property from communism. The industrialists - including leading figures from I.G. Farben, Hoesch, Krupp, Siemens, Allianz and other senior mining and manufacturing groups - then contributed more than two million Reichsmarks to the Nazi election fund, with Goering tellingly suggesting that this would probably be the last election for a hundred years. Business leadership happily jettisoned democracy to rid Germany of socialism and to smash organised labour.

For all the Nazi talk of "four-year plans" and the "guidance of the state," the sanctity of private property and freedom of contract was always preserved under the Nazis, even during the war years. Socialism - in particular, Bolshevism - on the other hand, were pernicious, "Jewish" imports that threatened the vitality of the German Volk.

Checkmate

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

The shooter has far left-wing views, yet you keep claiming he is an "alt-right member" and you keep on blaming POTUS Trump for the crimes committed by a far left-winger?

And you keep ranting on about Gandhi and Hitler, who both died over 70 years ago... As if they've got anything to do with modern day left & right wing political ideology.

The fact is, this guy didn't target a crew of forest loggers or japanese whalers, or whoever else you'd stereotypically expect a modern day leftist extremist to target.

This guy specifically targeted islamic immigrants! That's as stereotypically MAGA hat wearing right wing extremist as it comes.

You really should just man up and own it!

It will be a cold day in hell before that happens, facts aren't facts in todays right wing views.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

The shooter has far left-wing views, yet you keep claiming he is an "alt-right member" and you keep on blaming POTUS Trump for the crimes committed by a far left-winger?

And you keep ranting on about Gandhi and Hitler, who both died over 70 years ago... As if they've got anything to do with modern day left & right wing political ideology.

The fact is, this guy didn't target a crew of forest loggers or japanese whalers, or whoever else you'd stereotypically expect a modern day leftist extremist to target.

This guy specifically targeted islamic immigrants! That's as stereotypically MAGA hat wearing right wing extremist as it comes.

You really should just man up and own it!

It will be a cold day in hell before that happens, facts aren't facts in todays right wing views.

F.A.F.

"Fake News" "Alternative Facts" "Fake History"

a reply to: harold223

yeah it's just mind boggling, as well as morbidly entertaining..