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Matthew Fitzpatrick, Associate Professor of International History at Flinders University. A. Dirk Moses, Professor of Modern History at the University of Sydney, and the author of German Intellectuals and the Nazi Past.
Under Hitler, the party looked squarely to the middle classes and farmers rather than the working class for a political base. Hitler realigned it to ensure that it was an anti-socialist, anti-liberal, authoritarian, pro-business party - particularly after the failed Beerhall Putsch of 1923. The "socialism" in the name National Socialism was a strategically chosen misnomer designed to attract working class votes where possible, but they refused to take the bait. The vast majority voted for the Communist or Social Democratic parties.
The minority anti-capitalist strand of Nazism (Strasserism) on which van Onselen fastens was eliminated well before 1934, when Gregor Strasser and the Storm Trooper (SA) leader Ernst Roehm were murdered with over eighty others in the "Night of the Long Knives." In fact, Strasserism had already been defeated at the Bamberg Conference of 1926 when the Nazis were polling under 3% of the vote. Here, Hitler brought the dissidents back into line, denouncing them as "communists" and ruling out land expropriations and grassroots decision-making. He heightened the party's alliance with businesses small and large, and insisted on the absolute centralisation of decision-making - the "Fuehrer (leader) Principle."
When the already isolated Strasser brothers tried to reinvigorate their project one last time in 1930, Hitler and Goebbels banded together to force Otto Strasser to leave the party and Gregor Strasser to publicly recant. When the first electoral breakthrough to a popular vote of 18% came in 1930, the Nazi party's anti-capitalist minority were well and truly defeated. The "Night of the Long Knives" purged the old SA, not because they were a hidden vestige of socialism, but because Roehm's army of street thugs were a potential threat to Hitler's personal consolidation of power. A struggle over socialism in the Nazi party played absolutely no role in the purge of 1934.
For their part, businesses welcomed the Nazis' promises to suppress the left. On 20 February 1933, Hitler and Goering met with a large group of industrialists when Hitler declared that democracy and business were incompatible and that the workers needed to be dragged away from socialism. He promised bold action to protect their businesses and property from communism. The industrialists - including leading figures from I.G. Farben, Hoesch, Krupp, Siemens, Allianz and other senior mining and manufacturing groups - then contributed more than two million Reichsmarks to the Nazi election fund, with Goering tellingly suggesting that this would probably be the last election for a hundred years. Business leadership happily jettisoned democracy to rid Germany of socialism and to smash organised labour.
After fighting four elections between 1930 and 1933 on an anti-left and anti-Jewish platform that pledged to slay the mythical beast of "Judeo-Bolshevism," Hitler became Chancellor in 1933 and made good on his promises to business and his voters to destroy socialism in Germany. Most of 1933 was spent persecuting socialists and communists, liquidating their parties, incarcerating and in numerous cases killing their leadership and rank-and-file members.
Trade unions had been in Hitler's sights since a general strike paralysed a right-wing-coup (Kapp Putsch) in 1920. He had witnessed the striking workers and vowed that never again would organised labour prevent the right coming to power. It was the left (trade unions and Jews), after all, that he and others on the right thought had "stabbed" the nation in the back on the home-front to cause the loss of the First World War. By early May 1933, the trade unions had been destroyed. German socialism was in tatters. Not for nothing did Nazis say that the "ideas of 1933" (their national-racial "revolution") had vanquished those of "1789" - namely, the French Revolution and its ideals of equality, fraternity and liberty that have animated the left ever since.
For all the Nazi talk of "four-year plans" and the "guidance of the state," the sanctity of private property and freedom of contract was always preserved under the Nazis, even during the war years. Socialism - in particular, Bolshevism - on the other hand, were pernicious, "Jewish" imports that threatened the vitality of the German Volk.
originally posted by: LSU2018
a reply to: ElectricUniverse
As I clicked on this thread, I thought to myself, "I have no desire to know or care whether this guy is right or left, but all we've heard about is how he was a right wing extremist brought to light by Trump's rhetoric." And that makes a thread like this a breaking news thread and totally worth the knowledge of knowing in my opinion. How much more egg can the democrats wear before they finally stop with the knee jerk reacting?
S&F
originally posted by: harold223
originally posted by: LSU2018
a reply to: ElectricUniverse
As I clicked on this thread, I thought to myself, "I have no desire to know or care whether this guy is right or left, but all we've heard about is how he was a right wing extremist brought to light by Trump's rhetoric." And that makes a thread like this a breaking news thread and totally worth the knowledge of knowing in my opinion. How much more egg can the democrats wear before they finally stop with the knee jerk reacting?
S&F
From an Australian perspective, (the shooter was Australian), not much to do with Trump or Democrats really, except to say that the neo-nazi movement in Australia have sort of morphed into the harder edge of the Alt-right movement since Trump. But this has origins that go back way before Trump was on the scene and is more about contemporary internet culture than Trump.
originally posted by: LSU2018
originally posted by: harold223
originally posted by: LSU2018
a reply to: ElectricUniverse
As I clicked on this thread, I thought to myself, "I have no desire to know or care whether this guy is right or left, but all we've heard about is how he was a right wing extremist brought to light by Trump's rhetoric." And that makes a thread like this a breaking news thread and totally worth the knowledge of knowing in my opinion. How much more egg can the democrats wear before they finally stop with the knee jerk reacting?
S&F
From an Australian perspective, (the shooter was Australian), not much to do with Trump or Democrats really, except to say that the neo-nazi movement in Australia have sort of morphed into the harder edge of the Alt-right movement since Trump. But this has origins that go back way before Trump was on the scene and is more about contemporary internet culture than Trump.
It's just funny when Trump gets the blame all the time. He hasn't done anything wrong except for beat the democrats and throw the insults back at them. If neo-Nazi or alt-right movements have ramped up in other countries because of him, it's solely because of the rhetoric being pushed by our media outlets, those are the ones that extend to other countries. It's the same media and DNC that painted a target on the backs of our police officers.
originally posted by: harold223
From an Australian perspective, (the shooter was Australian), not much to do with Trump or Democrats really, except to say that the neo-nazi movement in Australia have sort of morphed into the harder edge of the Alt-right movement since Trump. But this has origins that go back way before Trump was on the scene and is more about contemporary internet culture than Trump.
...
When we think of Nazi killing, genocide immediately comes to mind, particularly that of "6,000,00 Jews." But they also murdered for reasons other than race or religion. For one, the Nazis slew those who opposed or hindered them, whether actually or potentially. This was why Hitler assassinated hundreds of top Nazi SA's (Sturmabteilung)4 in June and July 1934, who under Ernst Rohm were becoming a strong competitor to the SS (Schutzstaffel); or executed perhaps 5,000 Germans after the 1944 plot on his life and attempted coup d'etat. Indeed, it is why critics, pacifists, conscientious objectors, campus rebels, dissidents, and others throughout the twelve-year history of the regime in Germany, were executed, disappeared, or slowly died in concentration camps. The Nazis thus killed some 288,000 Germans, not counting Jews, homosexuals, and those forcibly "euthanized." If these are included, then the Nazis murdered at least 498,000 Germans, probably 762,000. As shown in table 1.2, this was one out of every hundred Germans.
...
...
To put it quite clearly: we have an economic programme. Point No. 13 in that programme demands the nationalisation of all public companies, in other words socialisation, or what is known here as socialism. … the basic principle of my Party’s economic programme should be made perfectly clear and that is the principle of authority… the good of the community takes priority over that of the individual. But the State should retain control; every owner should feel himself to be an agent of the State; it is his duty not to misuse his possessions to the detriment of the State or the interests of his fellow countrymen. That is the overriding point. The Third Reich will always retain the right to control property owners. If you say that the bourgeoisie is tearing its hair over the question of private property, that does not affect me in the least. Does the bourgeoisie expect some consideration from me?… Today’s bourgeoisie is rotten to the core; it has no ideals any more; all it wants to do is earn money and so it does me what damage it can. The bourgeois press does me damage too and would like to consign me and my movement to the devil.
Hitler's interview with Richard Breiting, 1931, published in Edouard Calic, ed., “First Interview with Hitler, 4 May 1931,” Secret Conversations with Hitler: The Two Newly-Discovered 1931 Interviews, New York: John Day Co., 1971, pp. 31-33. Also published under the title Unmasked: Two Confidential Interviews with Hitler in 1931 , published by Chatto & Windus in 1971
The shooter has far left-wing views, yet you keep claiming he is an "alt-right member" and you keep on blaming POTUS Trump for the crimes committed by a far left-winger?
originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
And you keep ranting on about Gandhi and Hitler, who both died over 70 years ago... As if they've got anything to do with modern day left & right wing political ideology.
originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
The fact is, this guy didn't target a crew of forest loggers or japanese whalers, or whoever else you'd stereotypically expect a modern day leftist extremist to target.
This guy specifically targeted islamic immigrants! That's as stereotypically MAGA hat wearing right wing extremist as it comes.
You really should just man up and own it!
It matters because people like you, in your ignorance, embrace the same ideas that the nazis and other far left-wingers embraced in the past, and you call them "new ideas" despite the fact that they are older than you are.
For their part, businesses welcomed the Nazis' promises to suppress the left. On 20 February 1933, Hitler and Goering met with a large group of industrialists when Hitler declared that democracy and business were incompatible and that the workers needed to be dragged away from socialism. He promised bold action to protect their businesses and property from communism. The industrialists - including leading figures from I.G. Farben, Hoesch, Krupp, Siemens, Allianz and other senior mining and manufacturing groups - then contributed more than two million Reichsmarks to the Nazi election fund, with Goering tellingly suggesting that this would probably be the last election for a hundred years. Business leadership happily jettisoned democracy to rid Germany of socialism and to smash organised labour.
Hitler became Chancellor in 1933 and made good on his promises to business and his voters to destroy socialism in Germany. Most of 1933 was spent persecuting socialists and communists, liquidating their parties, incarcerating and in numerous cases killing their leadership and rank-and-file members.
For all the Nazi talk of "four-year plans" and the "guidance of the state," the sanctity of private property and freedom of contract was always preserved under the Nazis, even during the war years. Socialism - in particular, Bolshevism - on the other hand, were pernicious, "Jewish" imports that threatened the vitality of the German Volk.
Matthew Fitzpatrick, Associate Professor of International History at Flinders University. A. Dirk Moses, Professor of Modern History at the University of Sydney, and the author of German Intellectuals and the Nazi Past.
originally posted by: MyToxicTash
Only a moron would actually believe this POS is left wing.
originally posted by: harold223
The killer moved in right wing online communities. The killer himself was just straight up crazy more than anything. What gets me about the OP is stating that the Nazi's were left wing or somehow communist. That's just straight up incorrect. Trying to re-write the history books lol.
originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
originally posted by: harold223
The killer moved in right wing online communities. The killer himself was just straight up crazy more than anything. What gets me about the OP is stating that the Nazi's were left wing or somehow communist. That's just straight up incorrect. Trying to re-write the history books lol.
Nope, the ones who have been rewritting history are you and left-wingers like you... From the claim that "socialism is great" and "the people own and control the means of production", which is a lie. To claiming that these socialist policies the nazis implemented were "right-wing..." lol
BTW, we got the writings of that lunatic, and despite the fact that he states he is left-wing you keep on claiming he is rightwing... Extreme environmentalism is not "right-wing..." "Nationalization, taking over industries controlled by the state/nazis is not a right-wing policy..." The "belief in over population, and the need to murder people to save the environment/Earth" is a far left-wing belief....
BTW, for every moron left-wing historian that claims the nazis were right-wing, there are historians, economists, etc, who say the nazis were left-wing... The truth is in those policies I mentioned, which you, nor your left-wing friends, can't refute are left-wing policies/laws...
For their part, businesses welcomed the Nazis' promises to suppress the left. On 20 February 1933, Hitler and Goering met with a large group of industrialists when Hitler declared that democracy and business were incompatible and that the workers needed to be dragged away from socialism. He promised bold action to protect their businesses and property from communism. The industrialists - including leading figures from I.G. Farben, Hoesch, Krupp, Siemens, Allianz and other senior mining and manufacturing groups - then contributed more than two million Reichsmarks to the Nazi election fund, with Goering tellingly suggesting that this would probably be the last election for a hundred years. Business leadership happily jettisoned democracy to rid Germany of socialism and to smash organised labour.
For all the Nazi talk of "four-year plans" and the "guidance of the state," the sanctity of private property and freedom of contract was always preserved under the Nazis, even during the war years. Socialism - in particular, Bolshevism - on the other hand, were pernicious, "Jewish" imports that threatened the vitality of the German Volk.
originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
a reply to: ElectricUniverse
The shooter has far left-wing views, yet you keep claiming he is an "alt-right member" and you keep on blaming POTUS Trump for the crimes committed by a far left-winger?
And you keep ranting on about Gandhi and Hitler, who both died over 70 years ago... As if they've got anything to do with modern day left & right wing political ideology.
The fact is, this guy didn't target a crew of forest loggers or japanese whalers, or whoever else you'd stereotypically expect a modern day leftist extremist to target.
This guy specifically targeted islamic immigrants! That's as stereotypically MAGA hat wearing right wing extremist as it comes.
You really should just man up and own it!
originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
a reply to: ElectricUniverse
The shooter has far left-wing views, yet you keep claiming he is an "alt-right member" and you keep on blaming POTUS Trump for the crimes committed by a far left-winger?
And you keep ranting on about Gandhi and Hitler, who both died over 70 years ago... As if they've got anything to do with modern day left & right wing political ideology.
The fact is, this guy didn't target a crew of forest loggers or japanese whalers, or whoever else you'd stereotypically expect a modern day leftist extremist to target.
This guy specifically targeted islamic immigrants! That's as stereotypically MAGA hat wearing right wing extremist as it comes.
You really should just man up and own it!
It will be a cold day in hell before that happens, facts aren't facts in todays right wing views.