What if our reality is a lie?

a reply to: Boadicea

I could repeat verbatim your post Boadicea and not disagree with any of it. That was an encouraging post and that kind of gem is why I still visit this site. All that is left after you have said it all is to maybe pick a small piece and tear into it looking for more stuff, like your opening sentence.

Because the simple truth is that no one can manipulate or compromise or exploit us without our cooperation and consent.

So let me question you ok? Are we not manipulated as new-borns? Are we not manipulated as toddlers and preschoolers and on up the line prior to our ability to consent? I think so and hold that what is fashioned into ''me'' or you'' and really ''all of us'' is a construct with little to no say at all about it's construction until environmental stimuli contradict the integrity of the construct as it knows itself.

I think what I am trying to get at here is that consent may not be available to the individual. Such as a child as suggested by Janov in Primal Scream Theory or even much later as in Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent.

What I am trying to circle around to here B, is what if the person we would hope to have the ability to consent has not yet developed that ability.

That aside, your final paragraph points to what I see as possibly the greatest short coming in people today, that is recognizing the mote in another's eye while not noticing the log in our own.

a reply to: dfnj2015

The Bernay's thread in history should be a tutorial for first graders but as it now stands it is one that seems only to be discovered by each of us individually. And even then it can be overlooked as just an historical side note of the advertising industry.

My basic take on it is that when Freud and others first began their studies and theories a whole new understanding of the hows and whys of human behavior blossomed. But in it's infancy, before the value of that knowledge could be utilized by people to better themselves, to aid them in their own self development, Bernay's and others who had seen the manipulative aspects of the science swooped in and put it into practice before most people knew what was happening. The rest of that story is history, but it seems only for those who wish to recognize it.

I often marveled when I first began to read psychology in college, how so many would just poo poo it as a ''fake science'' and something that really had no effect on us at all. I always just chalked that up to one more layer of the obfuscation put in place to insure it's continued success as a tool of oppression and manipulation.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Thank you for the links! The article on time was very intriguing, but I consider the very concept of "time" intriguing in and of itself! Having studied astronomy/astrology, I think of "time" as simply our measurement of the rotation of the earth around the sun, represented by our "year," and then broken down into "months" and days and hours and so on. The clock itself is representative of the universe and the earth's rotation, with the space/time broken down into hours, minutes and seconds. Exactly the way I would chart (clock) a horoscope within the zodiac wheel (clock).

But within that framework are anomalies. We've all heard (and maybe even said) that "time flies when you're having fun," but also that a "watched pot never boils." So our perception of time also plays a part, sometimes in more extreme ways than other times. For example, it isn't unusual for people to describe feeling as if the world had gone into slow motion during a crisis. I have had that experience. It is quite bizarre too. It seemed as if my mind was working in normal time, but the world had slowed down tremendously, allowing me time to process and react. Then again, when I took a tumble off the back porch not long ago, I literally could not remember what happened because it all happened so fast! I was walking to the laundry room and then I knew I was falling and then I was on the ground. Stuff busted up all around me, cuts and gashes and soon enough bruises that I couldn't even understand how they all happened. All in an instant.

It's all very bizarre, but I don't want to derail this thread any further so I'll stop here!

I am looking forward to watching the video when I get a chance. Thanks again!

a reply to: andy06shake

The mathematics does that mate not me per-say.

Mathematics has not and may not be able to prove that we are three-dimensional beings. You would first have to define what exactly it means to "be". By our definition, we certainly aren't two-dimensional, and who says that we aren't four-dimensional or more?

You seem to be confusing physics with metaphysics/philosophy somewhat, they're not exactly synonymous.

I'm not confused, and you're right, they aren't exactly synonymous. With that said, philosophy is the mother of physics. Nothing is measured without the idea that it can be measured in the first place. I also believe that perfected science will ultimately lead to our demise, whereas the perfected self will lead to the transcendence of Nature. No tool can be created to understand the self without interference, compared to being the tool itself and learning to use it perfectly. In doing so will yield "reality."

a reply to: dfnj2015

Lets just say is complicated and leave it at that.

Consider though that opinions are like bumholes, everyone has one, and other peoples tend to stink.

Ile place my opinions on observable evidence and repeatable results every day of the week and twice on Tuesdays because the alternative in a leap of faith as opposed to science.

That being said science will never be able to answer nor address some of the larger conundrums and/or complexities pertaining to our universe and reality.

Its only tool we have in our arsenal all the same that will allow us to answer the majority of said conundrums with any certainty.

Our reality is governed by consensus of the time, most of what we think is real is nothing but twisted reality created by over three thousand years of conditioning. What we can see is nowhere near what is actually out there, Humans are more than what we perceive, we cannot see the energy of people's body, only the body itself.

Look at the moon and how clear and defined it is, it is not really like that. Our minds filter and centralize the image, so we see a nice clear interpretation of what it looks like. It actually looks like multiple moons as the light from it comes through varying atmospheric layers. But we see it as one moon.

So this just shows how our mind creates a reality so we can operate in this world, nothing is sharp and focused, our eyes and mind centralize the image and remove the blurriness. So what is real and what isn't, look at the moon when you are drunk and you will see what it is really like. Think about this, we are moving through space at high speed as the earth turns, does it feel like we are doing that, our mind corrects for that.

Not much is as it appears in this world, we are conditioned to see what someone conditioned us to see, we are taught to interpret what we hear and see too, many other animals are conditioned by there related groups too.

To be real, it must be pertinent too, and we are conditioned to see things as others do. Because of our eye color, people see colors differently than others, but we are taught how to name what we see. Maybe I see something as green while others see it as blue, but I was taught, just like most people, what name to give to that color, so everyone calls green green while some people actually do not experience the color the same as others do. The bark of a tree is brown, but some people may see it as black, but still call it brown.

Reality is perceived different by different societies, so no, uniform reality does not really exist. What is good for me might be bad for someone else, it depends on which side of the coin you live on.

a reply to: andy06shake

The answers science provides are rather empty and meaningless. There is such a small subset of context scientific laws even apply it's pretty much irrelevant when it comes to meaning. Yeah, science is great for representing how nature explodes. But it never explains why energy moves at all or why any energy exists in the first place.

For me, science is tedious and boring. Religion is much more interesting because it's much more challenging to come up with why we have meaning in our Universe. Nature dictates how science behaves. Ho hum. Trying to come up with an argument why the Universe has a purpose is a much more interesting problem.

a reply to: FluffyKittens

Our perception is very 3 dimensional.

Hence our inability to perceive the higher dimensions that comprise the rest space-time.

We are indeed for all intents and purpose a 3-dimensional creature.

The math suggests(string theory) is 11 dimensional by nature.

AI will help facilitate our understanding of our own consciousness which pertains to the reality we experience, that's a tool.

Reality is not yielded its experienced, its just how we roll.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Science is the reason we are able to even have this discussion, just a thought.

Religion, well not so much.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

I could repeat verbatim your post Boadicea and not disagree with any of it. That was an encouraging post and that kind of gem is why I still visit this site.

Thank you. I take that as high praise and very much appreciate it!

All that is left after you have said it all is to maybe pick a small piece and tear into it looking for more stuff, like your opening sentence.

So let me question you ok?

Sure!

Are we not manipulated as new-borns? Are we not manipulated as toddlers and preschoolers and on up the line prior to our ability to consent?

Excellent questions... and something I have thought about, both in theory and in practice (especially as a mom). In the final analysis, yes, we are manipulated from birth to one extent or another, but we also respond and react to the manipulation in accordance with our inherent instincts and our own unique nature.

Infants and babies, for example, act on instinct and physical needs/comfort in the only way they have: crying. If they are hungry, cold, tired, wet, etc., they cry. At first, their cries are not a cry for help... it's not until their cries have been repeatedly responded to that a baby learns to cry to have his needs met.

Then there's the "terrible twos" in which a child learns to say "no" and takes great delight in doing so! And that's when a parent has to decide just how much intervention (read: manipulation) is necessary. For me, it was about basic safety. For others, it might be different. And how we handle it will be different. Sometimes we have to step into a situation to protect the child. Other times, we step in to protect ourselves or our own ideas about "good" and "bad" or "right" and "wrong."

Teenagers, again, fight every rule and every boundary a parent tries to maintain. It's their "job" so to speak... but more accurately, it is a necessary and proper phase of emotional and mental development for the teen to question and explore and expand his thought processes and reason.

As young adults, we are still pushing boundaries as we try to carve out our own niche in this world, deciding who and what we want to make of ourselves and our world, deciding who we want to be and who we don't want to be.

I would say, ideally, that at best, a child is guided rather than manipulated, and ideally, taught how to manipulate and direct circumstances, as opposed to people. But we live in the real world, so the reality for every individual is different.

That aside, your final paragraph points to what I see as possibly the greatest short coming in people today, that is recognizing the mote in another's eye while not noticing the log in our own.

I would only add that the opposite is equally true and equally problematic: People see only virtue in their own position, but refuse to see (or find!) any virtue in the other's position.

I think war is a perfect example. I can definitely see the virtue of risking life and limb to defend and protect all that is good and right. But I can also see the virtue in refusing to engage in violence in the name of peace. And I can certainly see where some accept war as a last resort, but disagree on what event/circumstance determines it's time for "last resort."

All are positions of principle and virtue, and should be recognized and appreciated as such, and to serve as guideposts for the elusive "happy medium."

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: dfnj2015

Science is the reason we are able to even have this discussion, just a thought.

Religion, well not so much.

I guess everyone is entitled to your own opinion. Some people argue our motivation to be great comes from God. That is, to experience God's greatness through experiencing our own greatness. And without God nothing big and important would ever get accomplished.

Science, well not so much.

originally posted by: Boadicea
especially as a mom

Everything that is most sacred and divine is with regards to motherhood. There are no lies in the reality of motherhood.

originally posted by: vinifalou
a reply to: Blue Shift

Orrrr, we could break from the Matrix and live free?

And do what?

It is a lie, all of it, endlessly repeating and we are all trapped in the cycle. a reply to: vinifalou

a reply to: dfnj2015

Kind of measuring yourself against something that remains to be proven nor seen.

How many worldwide communications mediums has God invented?

What do you consider to be "big and important"?

Take the LHC for instance, its the biggest machine we have ever created thus far, and integral to our understanding of particle physics and the universe, yet God in all his infinite wisdom had nothing to do with its design or creation.

That was all Man, God not so much.

a reply to: vinifalou

There is the appearance of lies, and deception.
There is illusion, or the appearance of illusion.

Is there anything more than this perception?

Could one perhaps find peace, within this consideration.

In other words: if you want to be happy: then find a way to be happy.

a reply to: vinifalou

This short video raises some interesting point where our preconceived notion of reality is concerned.



Warning it contains what some may consider to be rather colourful language.

Of course it's all lies, through media and the school systems...the world has been giving a remixed history written by the "victors"

The elite bankers have all the answers and played the rest of you for pawns. I suggest everyone with any understanding to read the book "Who is Esau-Edom?"

images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com...

a reply to: vinifalou

'Our' reality is a lie!!
There is no 'your' reality..... there is just what appears to be happening.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Yeah I love making shapes out of clouds sometimes it's as if they are playing along with you, " ohh there's a fire engine, and then a fireman, then look there a hose, ohh I can see flames.. then it rains! Lol that's Scotland for you.

But here's my favourite definition of Apophenia...