Christchurch shooting: police search for gunman after mass shooting at mosque – live updates

originally posted by: harold223

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: harold223

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: gallop

originally posted by: caterpillage
Too bad that guy that had the stones to try rushing the shooter didnt have a gun. He could have saved a bunch of lives, including his own.

When I first saw this, my first instinct was that he was not trying to rush the guy, but # scared and running.

That's the level of panic and fear I saw from them all, trapped, and certainly not prepared for such an event. They were mostly friends and family. Not hardened warriors. No different than any church congregation on any given sunday. And down this way, churches are not full of harley riding, gun toting types, but people like your parents..

Is the general consensus that as they were muslim, they should be used to fighting, and not prone to complete panic when faced with some asshole intent on killing you?

I don't agree with islam, it goes against many things I hold close... but I am even more against the slaughter of innocent people no matter their personal beliefs. And I can see how these people, scared, unsure of what was happening, had the first instinct to protect one another, despite those here now complaining that "did they really think covering each other would stop a bullet? lies."

You said,

despite those here now complaining that "did they really think covering each other would stop a bullet? lies."

Tell me, how is that a lie? Cowering in a corner in a group only makes the attackers job easier....that is a FACT....not a lie. The sooner people realize that the more lives can be saved in these situations.

Realise or not, unless trained to the point of reflex action, under adrenal stress, instinct will take over. Humans have a herding instinct when in groups. This is why you can read about how to fight and watch videos about it but unless you train to the point of muscle memory you will likely flail ineffectively. Source: I am a martial arts instructor. These are ordinary everyday people living in a peaceful place, woman and children FFS.

Then I guess they are stupid if they cannot learn that actions such as that guarantee you will be dead. Huddling together is great for warmth, not so much against a psychotic armed attacker. And, you don't need to be a trained martial arts instructor to know that....or learn to spread out or escape if at all possible. Otherwise, you are signing the death warrant for that child you love and are covering. Will everyone be able to do that in the meant, NO, of course not. But, all you need is a few to begin to confront the attacker in a no-win scenario....the odds are you are dead anyways. Perhaps your sacrifice will buy time for others to live and the armed police to arrive.

Missed my point a bit there. When the s#$t hits the fan the thinking brain takes a back seat and the lizard brain takes over. You could be aware of what you should do but you won't think of that in the heat of the moment, you will just react, instinctively. Extensive training can override instinct but it must be trained to the point of reflex, not conceptualised.

Untrue...not for everyone. Your blanket statement does not wash. Some have inherent instinct to fight rather than flight. Not everyone's instinct is to cower in fear. Unfortunately, one may never know which will take over unless you train (as you said). The training can increase your chances of triggering that fight instinct...but when is there anything in life guaranteed?

a reply to: jadedANDcynical

Can't watch the vid,chan's have been blocked from what I know.

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: harold223

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: harold223

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: gallop

originally posted by: caterpillage
Too bad that guy that had the stones to try rushing the shooter didnt have a gun. He could have saved a bunch of lives, including his own.

When I first saw this, my first instinct was that he was not trying to rush the guy, but # scared and running.

That's the level of panic and fear I saw from them all, trapped, and certainly not prepared for such an event. They were mostly friends and family. Not hardened warriors. No different than any church congregation on any given sunday. And down this way, churches are not full of harley riding, gun toting types, but people like your parents..

Is the general consensus that as they were muslim, they should be used to fighting, and not prone to complete panic when faced with some asshole intent on killing you?

I don't agree with islam, it goes against many things I hold close... but I am even more against the slaughter of innocent people no matter their personal beliefs. And I can see how these people, scared, unsure of what was happening, had the first instinct to protect one another, despite those here now complaining that "did they really think covering each other would stop a bullet? lies."

You said,

despite those here now complaining that "did they really think covering each other would stop a bullet? lies."

Tell me, how is that a lie? Cowering in a corner in a group only makes the attackers job easier....that is a FACT....not a lie. The sooner people realize that the more lives can be saved in these situations.

Realise or not, unless trained to the point of reflex action, under adrenal stress, instinct will take over. Humans have a herding instinct when in groups. This is why you can read about how to fight and watch videos about it but unless you train to the point of muscle memory you will likely flail ineffectively. Source: I am a martial arts instructor. These are ordinary everyday people living in a peaceful place, woman and children FFS.

Then I guess they are stupid if they cannot learn that actions such as that guarantee you will be dead. Huddling together is great for warmth, not so much against a psychotic armed attacker. And, you don't need to be a trained martial arts instructor to know that....or learn to spread out or escape if at all possible. Otherwise, you are signing the death warrant for that child you love and are covering. Will everyone be able to do that in the meant, NO, of course not. But, all you need is a few to begin to confront the attacker in a no-win scenario....the odds are you are dead anyways. Perhaps your sacrifice will buy time for others to live and the armed police to arrive.

Missed my point a bit there. When the s#$t hits the fan the thinking brain takes a back seat and the lizard brain takes over. You could be aware of what you should do but you won't think of that in the heat of the moment, you will just react, instinctively. Extensive training can override instinct but it must be trained to the point of reflex, not conceptualised.

Untrue...not for everyone. Your blanket statement does not wash. Some have inherent instinct to fight rather than flight. Not everyone's instinct is to cower in fear. Unfortunately, one may never know which will take over unless you train (as you said). The training can increase your chances of triggering that fight instinct...but when is there anything in life guaranteed?

Your right in that some people will react differently than others, but generally, not much thinking happens in life or death scenarios. You can't judge these people with how they reacted, they were terrified and reacted in a normal instinctive human way. New Zealand is not the sort of place you would expect to have to train every man woman and child to be a warrior. There are not too many places on earth as chilled out and laid back as NZ.

a reply to: Krakatoa

Yeah,if a guy with a gun pointed at you is out of arms reach,I'd say most would run. He wasn't there to sight in his scope. If that gun is pointed at you,I reckon you are go na cop a round. He must have modified the gun to shoot fuul auto, cause in nz the AR 15 is sold as 3 shots a squeeze I think,unless the guns had bumpstocks.

a reply to: hiddenNZ

Ah, yeah, that's right.

It shows some people milling about, some injured, some dead, blood on the carpet and on the pavement outside, a few dead in various places. It is obviously made by one of those who were there to worship.

a reply to: jadedANDcynical

I think he used all the AR ammo at first mosk and maybe shotguns at second one,less kill shots with scatter shot. Police said he also had a lever action rifle....the only one that comes to mind for me us a Winchester?

a reply to: harold223
Yeah.....this is the kind of crap disturbed nutsos do for political agenda...They pick on innocent people minding their own business...doing terrible damage to an all ready world that has become a mess...They do it on purpose to destroy freedoms as well..End of the day He is just another mass murdering lunatic..That will not happen in the eyes of the government who obviously have an agenda to take all guns..

originally posted by: starviego
He killed 49 and wounded 40 more at two locations 4 miles apart--all in 7 minutes? Hmmmm.....

That can't be right, as the video of the shooting at the first mosque goes on for at least 17 minutes.

So the official timeline so far is that he allegedly shot up the first target for about 20 minutes, going back to his car to reload, and then gets back in his vehicle, drives 3 miles on city streets through traffic and then shoots up the other mosque, totally unmolested by police the entire time?

And the filmed appearance of two other gunman at a third location is unrelated to the event?

Is that what we are supposed to believe?

originally posted by: harold223

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: harold223

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: harold223

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: gallop

originally posted by: caterpillage
Too bad that guy that had the stones to try rushing the shooter didnt have a gun. He could have saved a bunch of lives, including his own.

When I first saw this, my first instinct was that he was not trying to rush the guy, but # scared and running.

That's the level of panic and fear I saw from them all, trapped, and certainly not prepared for such an event. They were mostly friends and family. Not hardened warriors. No different than any church congregation on any given sunday. And down this way, churches are not full of harley riding, gun toting types, but people like your parents..

Is the general consensus that as they were muslim, they should be used to fighting, and not prone to complete panic when faced with some asshole intent on killing you?

I don't agree with islam, it goes against many things I hold close... but I am even more against the slaughter of innocent people no matter their personal beliefs. And I can see how these people, scared, unsure of what was happening, had the first instinct to protect one another, despite those here now complaining that "did they really think covering each other would stop a bullet? lies."

You said,

despite those here now complaining that "did they really think covering each other would stop a bullet? lies."

Tell me, how is that a lie? Cowering in a corner in a group only makes the attackers job easier....that is a FACT....not a lie. The sooner people realize that the more lives can be saved in these situations.

Realise or not, unless trained to the point of reflex action, under adrenal stress, instinct will take over. Humans have a herding instinct when in groups. This is why you can read about how to fight and watch videos about it but unless you train to the point of muscle memory you will likely flail ineffectively. Source: I am a martial arts instructor. These are ordinary everyday people living in a peaceful place, woman and children FFS.

Then I guess they are stupid if they cannot learn that actions such as that guarantee you will be dead. Huddling together is great for warmth, not so much against a psychotic armed attacker. And, you don't need to be a trained martial arts instructor to know that....or learn to spread out or escape if at all possible. Otherwise, you are signing the death warrant for that child you love and are covering. Will everyone be able to do that in the meant, NO, of course not. But, all you need is a few to begin to confront the attacker in a no-win scenario....the odds are you are dead anyways. Perhaps your sacrifice will buy time for others to live and the armed police to arrive.

Missed my point a bit there. When the s#$t hits the fan the thinking brain takes a back seat and the lizard brain takes over. You could be aware of what you should do but you won't think of that in the heat of the moment, you will just react, instinctively. Extensive training can override instinct but it must be trained to the point of reflex, not conceptualised.

Untrue...not for everyone. Your blanket statement does not wash. Some have inherent instinct to fight rather than flight. Not everyone's instinct is to cower in fear. Unfortunately, one may never know which will take over unless you train (as you said). The training can increase your chances of triggering that fight instinct...but when is there anything in life guaranteed?

Your right in that some people will react differently than others, but generally, not much thinking happens in life or death scenarios. You can't judge these people with how they reacted, they were terrified and reacted in a normal instinctive human way. New Zealand is not the sort of place you would expect to have to train every man woman and child to be a warrior. There are not too many places on earth as chilled out and laid back as NZ.

Yeah, and that was likely a reason he chose that location for his psycho attack. It is a well known very soft target itself, and in a house of worship makes it even more so unfortunately.

I just think that lessons can be learned here that there needs to be regulations in place for building codes that can double as fire codes. People react the same way in a fire, if they are not told (or there is no) clear 2nd exit to a room.

a reply to: Krakatoa

Just a thought, but I think as the shooter entered the building, bullets had to be flying into the back room. Seeing that the hallway was the main entrance into the back room, most peoples vision was not only restricted but they couldn't see a shooter at all and they may have thought it was a drive-by or someone standing at the doorway.

I only saw the footage once, but I think the shooter walked a good portion of the hallway without firing a shot until he entered the main room, which he then commenced firing again. I'm sure instinct was for them to move to the left and right side of the room. You certainly wouldn't want to be standing in the middle, the direction the bullets were coming from.

I can imagine when he appeared in the room it was a oh chit moment. It's difficult to know how any of us would have reacted to a gunman suddenly appearing in a room out of nowhere, gun a blazing. It did look like the one guy ran to take him down but was immediately shot. After that they were just fish in a fishbowl.

I don't think its right to say they were cowards though. Even a trained individual may have found themselves in a similar position. Things happened very quickly for them, there was not a lot of time to ponder the situation and eliminate the threat, without a weapon none the less.

originally posted by: mtnshredder
a reply to: Krakatoa

Just a thought, but I think as the shooter entered the building, bullets had to be flying into the back room. Seeing that the hallway was the main entrance into the back room, most peoples vision was not only restricted but they couldn't see a shooter at all and they may have thought it was a drive-by or someone standing at the doorway.

I only saw the footage once, but I think the shooter walked a good portion of the hallway without firing a shot until he entered the main room, which he then commenced firing again. I'm sure instinct was for them to move to the left and right side of the room. You certainly wouldn't want to be standing in the middle, the direction the bullets were coming from.

I can imagine when he appeared in the room it was a oh chit moment. It's difficult to know how any of us would have reacted to a gunman suddenly appearing in a room out of nowhere, gun a blazing. It did look like the one guy ran to take him down but was immediately shot. After that they were just fish in a fishbowl.

I don't think its right to say they were cowards though. Even a trained individual may have found themselves in a similar position. Things happened very quickly for them, there was not a lot of time to ponder the situation and eliminate the threat, without a weapon none the less.

I didn't call them cowards, I said, they cowered. That is different. Cowering is an action. In some scenarios, it is a viable action, but only when you have adequate cover to hide behind.

Please don't lie about my statements.

I wonder what will come next....

a copycat killer or retribution.

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: JinMI

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Kryties

I think that murder is against the 'right wing' ideology as well.

I'm sure Anders Breivik would not agree with you. He was a flag-waving rightwinger who clearly had a lust for murdering young people of different political persuasions.

Oh come on now, you are going to use extremists as the total of a right/left paradigm? Can I use all Muslim extremists to paint the same political picture.

Nonsense.

Mate I'm just calling it like it is. Breivik said IN HIS OWN WORDS that he was a right-winger. Equally, this recent idiot basically called himself right-wing in his manifesto.

They are saying it themselves mate. We are doing nothing more than calling them what they have called themselves.

And yet you fly off the handle when someone points out that Muslim Imams and leaders have called for the destruction and eradication of the west and conversion by the sword of non believers in those countries.

You realize how hypocritical your stance is right?

When you quote others words and use that to justify hate against the right it's all good. But when other people use the words of the Koran or links videos to hate spewing Imams you label it as Islamaphobia and say that you can't judge all of a group by the actions of an individual.

So which is it?

originally posted by: olaru12
I wonder what will come next....

That's easy: more laws to take your freedoms away.

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: gallop

originally posted by: caterpillage
Too bad that guy that had the stones to try rushing the shooter didnt have a gun. He could have saved a bunch of lives, including his own.

When I first saw this, my first instinct was that he was not trying to rush the guy, but # scared and running.

That's the level of panic and fear I saw from them all, trapped, and certainly not prepared for such an event. They were mostly friends and family. Not hardened warriors. No different than any church congregation on any given sunday. And down this way, churches are not full of harley riding, gun toting types, but people like your parents..

Is the general consensus that as they were muslim, they should be used to fighting, and not prone to complete panic when faced with some asshole intent on killing you?

I don't agree with islam, it goes against many things I hold close... but I am even more against the slaughter of innocent people no matter their personal beliefs. And I can see how these people, scared, unsure of what was happening, had the first instinct to protect one another, despite those here now complaining that "did they really think covering each other would stop a bullet? lies."

You said,

despite those here now complaining that "did they really think covering each other would stop a bullet? lies."

Tell me, how is that a lie? Cowering in a corner in a group only makes the attackers job easier....that is a FACT....not a lie. The sooner people realize that the more lives can be saved in these situations.

I'll remember to go tell all the people I know, this. Just in case. You know, because everyone seems to know this as fact. Fathers, brothers.. all should be combat aware at all times.

You don't get it do you. They were not hardened to such things. And in an instant their reality changed from stable to unstable. Who are you to expect people such as a father, brother, son, at a place of worship, to go "Oh hey, it's an attack, everyone get ready, lets go!"

Oh, and as for them being like "our parents".....my father fought the Nazi's in WWII,

FOUGHT IN WWII... Now do you see? What damn world war are we in right now? Where just going about your daily business in a country not known for ANY conflict, requires you to be fricken john rambo?

Damn mate, you're not getting it, hey...

and he would never have cowered in a corner....ever. My mom, she was a very outspoken and brave woman in her own right. Living through the great depression, she had a unique view of life, and that it was not something to take for granted or give up easily. I was taught to defend myself, by my parents. My brother, was in the USAF during Vietnam, my mothers youngest brother (my Godfather) was an MP in the Marines during Vietnam and stationed all over the region at varying times during the war.


Too bad your didn't give you the same level of survival instinct to handle yourself in these situations.

Freedom and life is not free. You mist be willing to fight for your life if it means anything at all to you. Otherwise, you are living a real lie.

So, everyone pack a gun, a knife, a broken bottle.. be prepared.. because if something happens and you panic and think of only protecting your loved ones when someone is gunning for you, then you're a weak person, and should have been better prepared because every moment is not guaranteed.

I don't like that reality..

originally posted by: gallop

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: gallop

originally posted by: caterpillage
Too bad that guy that had the stones to try rushing the shooter didnt have a gun. He could have saved a bunch of lives, including his own.

When I first saw this, my first instinct was that he was not trying to rush the guy, but # scared and running.

That's the level of panic and fear I saw from them all, trapped, and certainly not prepared for such an event. They were mostly friends and family. Not hardened warriors. No different than any church congregation on any given sunday. And down this way, churches are not full of harley riding, gun toting types, but people like your parents..

Is the general consensus that as they were muslim, they should be used to fighting, and not prone to complete panic when faced with some asshole intent on killing you?

I don't agree with islam, it goes against many things I hold close... but I am even more against the slaughter of innocent people no matter their personal beliefs. And I can see how these people, scared, unsure of what was happening, had the first instinct to protect one another, despite those here now complaining that "did they really think covering each other would stop a bullet? lies."

You said,

despite those here now complaining that "did they really think covering each other would stop a bullet? lies."

Tell me, how is that a lie? Cowering in a corner in a group only makes the attackers job easier....that is a FACT....not a lie. The sooner people realize that the more lives can be saved in these situations.

I'll remember to go tell all the people I know, this. Just in case. You know, because everyone seems to know this as fact. Fathers, brothers.. all should be combat aware at all times.

You don't get it do you. They were not hardened to such things. And in an instant their reality changed from stable to unstable. Who are you to expect people such as a father, brother, son, at a place of worship, to go "Oh hey, it's an attack, everyone get ready, lets go!"

Oh, and as for them being like "our parents".....my father fought the Nazi's in WWII,

FOUGHT IN WWII... Now do you see? What damn world war are we in right now? Where just going about your daily business in a country not known for ANY conflict, requires you to be fricken john rambo?

Damn mate, you're not getting it, hey...

and he would never have cowered in a corner....ever. My mom, she was a very outspoken and brave woman in her own right. Living through the great depression, she had a unique view of life, and that it was not something to take for granted or give up easily. I was taught to defend myself, by my parents. My brother, was in the USAF during Vietnam, my mothers youngest brother (my Godfather) was an MP in the Marines during Vietnam and stationed all over the region at varying times during the war.


Too bad your didn't give you the same level of survival instinct to handle yourself in these situations.

Freedom and life is not free. You mist be willing to fight for your life if it means anything at all to you. Otherwise, you are living a real lie.

So, everyone pack a gun, a knife, a broken bottle.. be prepared.. because if something happens and you panic and think of only protecting your loved ones when someone is gunning for you, then you're a weak person, and should have been better prepared because every moment is not guaranteed.

I don't like that reality..

Way to pile on the hyperbole. Who said anything about all that, Rambo, indeed?

Getting self defense trained, being aware of emergency exits, situational awareness is not something you can afford to have in hindsight in this modern world. The real world is not all unicorns and roses. This is globalism...how's it feel?

You asked what World War are we in? Seriously? Just because it is not named does not mean it is not happening. It is happening, and has been since the early 1990's. Blocking your ears and eyes to it does not make it go away.

That is our modern reality. If you are not prepared to protect yourself and loved ones...who else is going to do it in the moment?

originally posted by: mtnshredder

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: AtlasHawk

Have you ever been to Europe?

Can you expand on your knowledge of open borders in Europe and why you think it's bad?

I need to know before I try and engage you on this subject..

Your such a hypocrite. I made a statement the other day about how immigration had effected me and all you could do was attack and insult me.

So I asked you this VVVVV

originally posted by: mtnshredder
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
It's obvious that this is a topic you have no knowledge in and no clue about.

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't you live in another country?

Yet, you're a expert on ours and the issues we face?

All you could do was attack and insult me once me again. Yet, here you are VVVVVVV

So you got nothing, no experience just someone else's pov... Figures...

Peddle your propaganda to someone else I'm not buying it.

So the same logic only applies when it's coming from you not someone else? Your a gem dude.

Now tell us again why it matters if he's ever been to Europe?

This thread isn't about you, so how about you take your bellyaching elsewhere and

originally posted by: oloufo
good reasons i think. so, what did you learned by watching this?

I agree completely with your post.

What I learned, is that only by seeing things with my own eyes can I know the truth. I refuse to follow a narrative. And as much as it sickened me, and was something I won't soon forget, I know what I saw.

I know this man's complete guilt... and not someone elses words. It is not very often that we do get to see the devil. but to hide our eyes from it, doesn't mean it's not there.

originally posted by: BelowLowAnnouncement

originally posted by: oloufo
good reasons i think. so, what did you learned by watching this?

We learned what happened as it happened. It's not nice, but it would have been useful if the Las Vegas shooter had made a video like this too. It saves a lot of investigation, it gives a lot of information how events transpired, it eliminates a lot of unknowns, speculation and conspiracy.

Man lol had I waited one post, I'd not have had to reply.

Exactly. Absolutely.

originally posted by: olaru12
I wonder what will come next....

a copycat killer or retribution.

What's amazing is that seems to be the only two expected results.

Programming is working.