Horrified Venezuelan Residents wake up to find their taps 'running with oil...'

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Its alright, everyman and his dog from the US will form a $ 2 corporation claim expertise and go in and liberate that Oil for the good ol USA.

I can just imagine them drooling over that easily tapped oil.

for those worried that america could turn into Venezuelan with the red-scare propaganda...

look at the water in Flint, in many other cities, look at the water on Reservations etc

I'm not convinced that's oil... it seems to be water-soluble. It couldn't be pure crude, because it flows too well (less viscous than oil). So whatever the black substance is, it's mixed with water and thus has to be water-soluble. Crude oil is not water-soluble. It will separate from water, not mix in with it.

That's not to say it isn't a problem... there are a multitude of black-colored water-soluble chemicals, and not many are considered healthy. To be honest, it looks a lot like partially treated waste water; in other words, partially treated previously-flushed crap. Not what I would want to have running in my pipes. If that's what it is, there should be a very obnoxious odor that comes with the deal... I didn't see any mention of that, but then again, seeing black water is usually enough to trip people out without worrying about a little stench.

That would also explain how the changeover happened. Water treatment plants typically rely on pumps to keep reservoirs uncontaminated at various treatment levels. Without those pumps, reservoirs can spill over and contaminate each other, essentially bypassing the treatment process. Pumps are electric, and there's been a lot of reports of failing electrical supplies, even in hospitals. If the hospitals' power can fail, so can water treatment.

It also means this cannot be fixed quickly. Whatever this stuff is, it has already contaminated every pipe it has flowed through. That's a huge and expensive infrastructure problem, reminiscent of Flint, MI. They actually fixed the problem well before the problem was fixed... but the fresh water flowing was still picking up lead from the deposited lead from the contaminated water that was already in the pipes.

Suddenly, I have a new-found love for my old private well...

TheRedneck

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Right... just because a nation wants to keep most of their wealth within the nation means they cant tap into the free market?

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Right... just because a nation wants to keep most of their wealth within the nation means they cant tap into the free market?

Well as you can see people round here care more about Venezuelan citizens than they do about folk in their own country .

a reply to: strongfp

Right... just because a nation wants to keep most of their wealth within the nation means they cant tap into the free market?

Ummm... yes... obviously... hello?

Just because someone won't part with their money, does that mean they can't buy things?

Ummm... yes... obviously... hello?

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: strongfp

Right... just because a nation wants to keep most of their wealth within the nation means they cant tap into the free market?

Ummm... yes... obviously... hello?

Just because someone won't part with their money, does that mean they can't buy things?

Ummm... yes... obviously... hello?

TheRedneck

Everyone has a price, would you sell your prize commodities for pennies.

Desperation shouldn't lead a person, persons or country to sell their soul. The instinct for survival is strong, these people will not lay down and cop it up the ass.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Everyone has a price, would you sell your prize commodities for pennies.

Desperation shouldn't lead a person, persons or country to sell their soul. The instinct for survival is strong, these people will not lay down and cop it up the ass.

Did I just wake up in the twilight zone?

First I respond to someone who wants to know why a nation can't participate in the free market if they reject the free market, and now you claim that statement has something to do with selling prized possessions for pennies? Are my words getting scrambled on your screen?

I think you need a cup of coffee... or a Mountain Dew... something with caffeine in it. Maybe a couple of No-Doze...

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Socialism in today's world doesnt mean you reject the free market.
You honestly think a nation with massive amounts of oil wont sell it in the world economy? What do they do with it all? Spill it in the streets and hope it turns into food and water?

a reply to: strongfp

Socialism in today's world doesnt mean you reject the free market.

All socialist policies reject the free market... by definition! The free market is capitalism. If a country sells it's oil onto the free market, that is a capitalistic exchange.

Dude, what do you think socialism is?

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Political and economical ideaolgies evolve get that concept in your head before you start off on your rants about socialism being communism and what not. The world isnt black and white like you think it is.

If we went off your logic then any capitalist nation should have slaves and people living at work. Just like capitalism has evolved so had socialism.

a reply to: XAnarchistX

Exactly. It took the US a year to fully restore power in Puerto Rico after the hurricane. The water crisis in Flint has been going on for half a decade now and we have similar, lower profile, cases all over the country.

When these things happen in other countries we're told it's because they don't love capitalism enough and they need to be saved by military force.

When they happen in the US we blame the victims and then just sweep the whole thing under the rug.

a reply to: TheRedneck

I can't answer that for you I'm afraid, however I can at least reinforce my point in that things aren't always as they seem, the Venezuelan people will not just roll over and the situation is far more nuanced than simply blaming socialism for this mess.

a reply to: strongfp

Political and economical ideaolgies evolve get that concept in your head before you start off on your rants about socialism being communism and what not.

First off, please point out where I said socialism is communism? It's not.

Capitalism is a free market exchange wherein people, both individuals and organized groups (aka 'corporations') produce and sell goods and services freely to others. It produces wealth, but in an unequal distribution.

Socialism is where a government (or controlling authority) places restrictions on capitalism for the (sometimes actual and sometimes perceived) good of the people. Socialism can co-exist with capitalism to some degree, but it always reduces the wealth creation. Socialist policies provide limited wealth to all in theory.

Communism is an economic system where people own nothing but have all needs provided by the government. It has never produced any wealth, but in every nation which has tried it, it has created corruption on a large scale due to the economic power it concentrates in the hands of the government.

Socialism is not Communism, but Communism is pure Socialism.

Second, don't pee on my leg and try to tell me it's raining. I reject your attempts to redefine words to suit your personal agenda. If you try and do so, expect to be called out on it. Economic theory does not 'evolve'... it works as it always has worked, regardless of what it is called. If you want to claim socialism is not socialism, don't call it socialism and don't make it socialism.

TheRedneck

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Yes, it is nuanced as to the details of how it came about. But what caused the economic crisis is really not that difficult. The Venezuelan government failed to diversify its economic base and placed itself at the mercy of the free market without any protection from economic shifts. They then instituted socialist policies that drained their treasury. When the oil market, which they were completely dependent on, dropped due to world events, they were unable to afford their policies and the economy collapsed. It was simply bad planning.

The only nuances are in how and why the government went about implementing their policies.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Personal agenda? When people say Norway is socialist, and then others argue back it's not, it's just capitalism with social programs. What is it? You are defining socialism in its primitive age.
Like I said. Do capitalist nations allow slavery? Because that's the end game goal for a capitalist nation. Max profits.

a reply to: strongfp

The United States can be called a socialist nation, depending on how many socialist policies you consider a nation as needing to get that label. I don't know of any purely capitalist nations; the wealth disparency is usually too large to be acceptable. All of them I know of have some socialist policies. The US is likely one of the least socialist right now.

I don't live in Norway. I haven't heard of any problems, so I figure they've got it under control. I have no idea how many socialist policies they have.

Do capitalist nations allow slavery?

Do capitalist nations grow beans?

I have no idea how you are trying to equate slavery with capitalism. Some capitalist nations have allowed slavery, yes. Almost every nation in the world has allowed slavery. So what?

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Then why is Venezuela being targeted for being socialist and basing all their issues on that one matter?

a reply to: ElectricUniverse



I don't see him lasting much longer.

A person can live without water for about a week.

So the clock is ticking.

a reply to: strongfp

Socialism did play one part in their collapse: they were spending all of their income on socialist policies and had no buffer to handle oil price fluctuations. At the point of collapse, the immediate problem was they had too many socialist policies. That's probably the reason they are attacked for being socialist... well, that, and some people think all socialism is bad because communism.

The biggest issue, though, was that they did not diversify their economic base. They put the entire national resource into producing oil instead of producing food or anything else. That's why they have no food now; they have no money to buy it and no infrastructure to grow it.

Without sufficient money from capitalism, socialism cannot survive in a country dependent on the global economy. That's the kicker.

TheRedneck