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The immaterial mind must exist

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posted on Mar, 12 2019 @ 08:10 PM
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The immaterial mind must exist to operate the material brain. I have been debating this point for years with Biologist, brain surgeons, physicist, Neuroscientist and more.

There certain things that just can't be explained by the material brain. It's not the god of the gaps, it's just huge gaps in materialism.

These gaps exists because materialism can't explain these things. It's like many people have turned materialism into a religious belief and they take it on faith that materialism must explain all things even when it explains nothing.

How can the material brain, tell the material brain, which memories it wants the material brain to recall?

How can the material brain initiate the recall of a specific memory? How does it know which memory you want to recall?

How does the material brain know why you want to recall this memory or how you feel about this memory?

It almost operates like a search engine. The immaterial mind tells the brain which memory it wants to search for.

The other day, I wanted to recall something I read in a book. How did the material brain initiate this search? How does the material brain know why I want it to recall this memory?

Eventually, the memory was found but how did the material brain know about the memory before the material brain recalled the memory?

Again, this isn't god of the gaps. I'm not saying materialism just has no explanation yet, I'm saying this can't be explained by materialism and there will never be an explanation found with materialism.

Like I said, I've debated a lot of people on this issue over the years and none of them have been able to answer these simple questions.

The immaterial mind has to act like an operating system that manages the information that the "material" brain processes.




posted on Mar, 12 2019 @ 08:31 PM
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I was going to disagree but you got me thinking.

These thoughts, for me they're a narrative or conversation. I'm not schizophrenic I swear, I'm just sharing those deep dark realities that most are afraid to admit, lol.

Yes, I talk to myself in my own head and have cute short debates over the ethics and morality of a given decision, interest, etc. I've found that overall, I never need to slap my own imaginary hand or hand of my other.. voices because everyone behaves and takes my lead always.

Originally I was going to say that it's all brain chemistry, that certain levels and momentary spikes of endogenous chemicals that your brain produces dictate what your thoughts are, if you feel happy, motivated, optimistic, pessimistic, anything. If the chemicals could be measured at those exact moments of thought and feeling, the percentages would always fall within a similar range compared to the others, a percentage, and you'd find a similar balance of chemicals within a range of percentage among the majority of people that are in the "normal" spectrum. Likewise, other spectrums would also be comparable and predictable.

But now I'm thinking, what and where is this canvas that only exists inside of my skull (and probably most of everyone elses)



posted on Mar, 12 2019 @ 08:34 PM
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a reply to: neoholographic

I'm not sure who you have debated this over the years with, but they have probably told you at some point that we have a conscious, subconscious and a third reptilian mind.

Basic biology as far as the three brains part goes, but it's deeper than that.

Your subconscious actually runs everything, your conscious mind doesn't talk to it a lot and the other brain is for emergencies (fight-flee)

It is the Trinity.

We use about 5% of our conscious mind and none of our mind that runs everything.

So most people use about 1% of their "material" brain.

It's kinda up to you to explore those pathways, since each of us is completely different in our neural connections.

Attempting to explain those connections is what religions end up coming about because of... someone will start using their brain right and then can do or explain things that resonates with others.

Not all religions are equal, obviously.

There are a few ways to make one part talk to another, but that is a topic that would probably run afoul of the T&C here.

But to wrap it up, there is no doubt to anyone I know that we have more than one level of consciousness.

So I'm not sure where you are going with your OP... it's a standard belief, after all.




posted on Mar, 12 2019 @ 08:47 PM
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originally posted by: r0xor
I was going to disagree but you got me thinking.

These thoughts, for me they're a narrative or conversation. I'm not schizophrenic I swear, I'm just sharing those deep dark realities that most are afraid to admit, lol.

Yes, I talk to myself in my own head and have cute short debates over the ethics and morality of a given decision, interest, etc. I've found that overall, I never need to slap my own imaginary hand or hand of my other.. voices because everyone behaves and takes my lead always.

Originally I was going to say that it's all brain chemistry, that certain levels and momentary spikes of endogenous chemicals that your brain produces dictate what your thoughts are, if you feel happy, motivated, optimistic, pessimistic, anything. If the chemicals could be measured at those exact moments of thought and feeling, the percentages would always fall within a similar range compared to the others, a percentage, and you'd find a similar balance of chemicals within a range of percentage among the majority of people that are in the "normal" spectrum. Likewise, other spectrums would also be comparable and predictable.

But now I'm thinking, what and where is this canvas that only exists inside of my skull (and probably most of everyone elses)


Very good points and like I said materialism can't explain how it's possible for the material brain to tell the material brain which memory it wants the material brain to recall.

How is it even possible for the material brain to initiate recall of a memory?



posted on Mar, 12 2019 @ 08:59 PM
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originally posted by: neoholographic
Very good points and like I said materialism can't explain how it's possible for the material brain to tell the material brain which memory it wants the material brain to recall.

How is it even possible for the material brain to initiate recall of a memory?


My understanding is that it works similar to a hard drive, processor etc except biological and wet. It decays and gets damage over time so we run into neurological difficulties as we become old.

Or, you could say your hardware and operating system never change, younger people just get newer and faster versions. I imagine it like a computer made out of living matter submerged in liquid. Instead of wires, there's nerves and veins, biological versions of it. Someone with dementia needs their hard drive defragmented.

Which begs the question: Is the computer a reflection of our own brain and cognitive system, something we created in our image just like statues, idols, drawings, paintings, boogeymen, aliens, demons, gods?

edit on 3/12/2019 by r0xor because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 12 2019 @ 09:21 PM
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a reply to: neoholographic

materialism of the gaps: The faith that one day materialism will be able to explain everything and we can rest at disease knowing that all is a worthless material accident.

What elicits neuronal firing? Sure you could argue that it's a synapse caused by a depolarized membrane, but what elicits that? Sure you could argue that it's ions being pumped across a membrane at mind-boggling speeds, but what elicits that? Ask this question enough and eventually you must get to the original cause which is the immaterial mind that uses the material body as an interface to have tangible interactions with other immaterial minds.

The synchrony of neural synapses required for even the most basic thoughts or actions is mind-boggling. The fact that these neural processes have the potential to continue unencumbered for over 100 years is truly a testament to the magnitude of awe involved with the creation.



posted on Mar, 12 2019 @ 09:36 PM
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a reply to: neoholographic

First, there is not just “one brain” but multiple subsystems that are usually synchronized in what looks like total chaos! This is not any “design” like anything we have done in a computer (even your artificial neural networks are more “in control” in a timing sense than your noodle). In fact, if they do sync up, you are having an epileptic fit!

Second, memories are *not* “file folders” that you order some schlub to go retrieve. After a good nights sleep, your brain chemistry changes. You are not the same you as you were! But you are!! How weird is that?!! Somehow, you associate memories, kind of like “fire bad” as gross generalizations. Then chemistry takes over. Then you get a path of where general experiences resides that you try first (get it wrong... brain fart!). That is how you retrieve memories... hormones, and potassium channels taking a certain amount of time and somehow your brain keeps this shizz all sorted out!!

Third, your brain is an open ended machine! Again, unlike anything we have mimicked in silicon. Your brain (whatever subsystem you probe), tries to make sense out of *any* signal it receives! A computer does not.

Fourth, we live in a quantum world and most of the crap not moving that much at you is “auto filtered” out so you don’t pay attention to it (the Sabre tooth cat in the trees being more important than the fluffy cloud for survival). That is the different levels of reptilian brain talk comes from.

My thoughts, the quantum is too much to pay attention to so we filter it down to macro world stuff. We follow one arrow of time that gives us cause and effect instead of seeing quantum foam bubbling all around us.

But we are learning how to rinse the bubble bath off!

Always good stuff to think about!




posted on Mar, 12 2019 @ 09:38 PM
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Looking for consciousness in the brain is like looking inside a radio for the announcer.

--Nassim Harramein



posted on Mar, 12 2019 @ 09:46 PM
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a reply to: schuyler

Perfect.



posted on Mar, 12 2019 @ 09:47 PM
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a reply to: neoholographic

The immaterial mind is never really in dispute just some like to interpret it from a purely material viewpoint and most of those use science as there crotch when in fact they have no explanation for it, they try to suggest that the consciousness is the result of the mind which is a result of the brain and it's process but they can not explain the growing wealth of data such as often fringe studies into patient's oobe experiences often during critical operations etc.
And long ago the materialists even used to believe that the mind was not in the head but in the heart, today science is to a small degree accepting that even in the body the mind is not a localized phenomena, it is not only in your head but in all your organ's and in your heart - there is even some controversial story's about organ transplant patient's mysteriously taking on the personality trait's of the organ donor's?.

For the religious it has always been the spirit and the body is merely a vessel so for us it does not matter if we are in a part of the body or all of it because the source of our consciousness is actually our soul.

In a peculiar twist science may offer an alternative explanation, science remember is a tool and that tool can be used to craft explanation's and most of those explanations are merely pre-conceived notion's that a person using that tool seeks to create using that tool as a reality for there own point of view - so science has a metaphysical side as well.

Take a human being, take a quantum universe in which there are a nearly or actual infinite number of parallel reality's.
Take light and a quantum experiment called the aperture slit test that seems to suggest a reason for why light exists as both a particle and a wave as well as existing as neither, it is a wave when seen from this view of multiple side reality's but one that oscillates differently to other waves and can pass between these reality's so is not actually in a single reality at all?.
So the mind also has a seeming ability to alter the state of reality itself from a quantum universe perspective, so the mind is itself not localized into a single body but into a multitude of parallel reality's, so a body dies in one reality does the mind, well no if it exists in multiple reality's simultaneously then in fact it actually start's becoming stronger from the moment of it's incorporeal release with the death of the body as it not only still as the physical support scaffold of the quantum body's in other reality's but also then becomes a self reinforcing existence supported also by this incorporeal self that also exists in other reality's spanning multiple reality's and perhaps even time itself.

So the mind is not just the body and the body is not just clothing but is far more than that itself as well.



posted on Mar, 12 2019 @ 10:17 PM
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a reply to: r0xor



Which begs the question: Is the computer a reflection of our own brain and cognitive system


Yes completely. RAM and ROM memory, hard drives processing speed, literally just about everything about computer hardware seems to be a pretty close reflection of the human psyche. Just getting into real computer science and I keep getting side tracked contemplating the same concepts.



posted on Mar, 12 2019 @ 10:25 PM
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a reply to: neoholographic

Operating system is the wrong metaphor. It's not clear where our memories are stored. Most materialists would say the brain. But there is no evidence to confirm where our memories are stored.

I think our brains are more like an analog radio receiver than a computer. People are so ingrained with the idea of a clockwork Universe they simply ignore the wave-like nature of the Universe. Just like information is stored within the lip-rim of a black hole, our minds eye is a conduit to the one wave of reality's existence. Everything is connected to everything else. We are the Universe's way of experiencing itself. Consciousness exists much to the materialists chagrin.

You can choose free-will doesn't exist. You can choose consciousness is a delusion. But in choosing consciousness is a delusion is also a delusion. Consciousness is real. I can feel it. I would argue consciousness is not only real, but our deepest thoughts and feelings connect us directly to the source of all existence. It's only through the imperfections of way of thinking that are preventing us from experiencing the signal in its purist form of perfection.

In terms of materialism, here is a video showing a phenomena giving evidence to an analog radio wave like nature of consciousness. Although most materialist would dismiss this as hogwash because their dogma in their brain is tougher than concrete.



Consciousness information travels through subspace.


edit on 12-3-2019 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 12 2019 @ 10:54 PM
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Weird. I just finished watching this video literally 20 minutes ago and he touches on this very subject... sort of.

You should find this interesting...




edit on 12-3-2019 by Bone75 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 12 2019 @ 11:17 PM
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a reply to: Bone75

You might find this video interesting.



Although you cannot prove a negative, the idea a Von Neuman type computer would some day understand the meaning of language seems to me to be a reach beyond what is possible with a digital universe. Our brains are analog not digital.

Also, this video outlines why weak AI is going to displace millions of jobs and cause absolute chaos across the world:




edit on 12-3-2019 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 12 2019 @ 11:27 PM
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a reply to: Bone75

The problem with computers is they only do exactly what they are told to do. The beauty of human beings is they are capable of defining their own programs.




posted on Mar, 13 2019 @ 02:30 AM
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originally posted by: Bone75
Weird. I just finished watching this video literally 20 minutes ago and he touches on this very subject... sort of.

You should find this interesting...





Great find!

Wow, he really did say some things that are very close to what I'm saying.

When he talked about trying to recall the memory of who played Commissioner Gordon in Batman and how you are not your memory.

He also talked about the difference between a controller and the thing being controlled. That's exactly what I'm talking about when I say an operating system that controls and manages the information the brain processes.

Thanks for posting



posted on Mar, 13 2019 @ 03:46 AM
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It does exist... now practice.



posted on Mar, 13 2019 @ 10:21 PM
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Well how does the immaterial mind know to do any of those things? :O

I'd imagine the material mind would do it the same way.



posted on Mar, 13 2019 @ 10:27 PM
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originally posted by: LucidWarrior
Well how does the immaterial mind know to do any of those things? :O

I'd imagine the material mind would do it the same way.


The immaterial mind is the source, the material mind is the receiver. male and female. 'mater' meaning mother - material mind. Immaterial mind is father the source. material mind without immaterial mind is a corpse, immaterial mind without material mind is... ????? God?



posted on Mar, 13 2019 @ 11:12 PM
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a reply to: neoholographic

You Refer to the Subconscious Mind , the Motivator of the Conscious Mind . Materialism is but a Extension of Emotional Desires based on Instinctive Needs . " Food , Shelter , Clothing " ....



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