May Suffers Second Brexit Defeat

In the US there is a process known as a Constitutional Convention that can occur among the States. During these periods everything is on the table, and it is thought that this process is to address serious failures of government.

Does the UK have any similar process?

The old adage about ripping off a band-aid quickly comes to mind.

What is being overlooked at this point is the value of finality. Stay or go, any decision is better than more uncertainty. I think that is what most people are fed up with more than anything else - not knowing. Its like going to a doctor month after month for years getting one test after another and all you hear is, "We need to look at this differently. We need a different approach." But nowhere in there does anyone ever tell you what is wrong or how to fix it, or if it can even be fixed. I would rather hear bad news and know exactly where I stand than hear nothing at all.

originally posted by: Tempter
In the US there is a process known as a Constitutional Convention that can occur among the States. During these periods everything is on the table, and it is thought that this process is to address serious failures of government.

Does the UK have any similar process?

The old adage about ripping off a band-aid quickly comes to mind.

The UK doesnt have a constitution. Power rests with the Crown.
In theory the Queen has the authority to withold Royal Assent to an act of parliament. The last time that happened was in the early 1800s at the advise of the Government though and the last King who tried opposing Parliamentary rule ended up being executedafter losing the English Civil War in the 1700s.
Shame the Queen is so old really. The entire Brexit affair would be even more interesting with a more engaged Monarch.

to other side of the coin,

I will re-iterated for you the suspicion that if the no-deal (wto terms) is thrown out today, the remain crowd have effectively stripped us all of any semblance of democracy.

today it may die and I will be internally lobbying for all the offshore haven dandies to fly to their monies in a max-8.

f.

originally posted by: mightmight
The UK doesnt have a constitution. Power rests with the Crown.

The UK has an uncodified constitution, with a constitution being made up by laws and precedent. The UK is lucky to have a body of law going back to the dawn of time. The power rests with the law.

The entire Brexit affair would be even more interesting with a more engaged Monarch.

Brexit is political and the Queen does not publicly get involved in politics.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: mightmight
The UK doesnt have a constitution. Power rests with the Crown.

The UK has an uncodified constitution, with a constitution being made up by laws and precedent. The UK is lucky to have a body of law going back to the dawn of time. The power rests with the law.

Not saying its relevant to anything, but its not the same as having an actual constitution. Laws and precedent are a very murky foundation and tend to evolve over time - as it was the case in the UK over the centuries.

The United Kingdom established a system of Parliamentary Sovereignty after the British Civil War and the Glorious Revolution in 1688.
Under such a system, the legislative body has absolute power to overturn any and all previous legislation. The Bill of Rights or the Magna Carta are not sacrosanct. Neither is the European Communites Act from 1972 as we experienced with Brexit. There are very little safeguards to anything if the chips are down.

So what constitutes Parliamentary Sovereignty? Parliament is not sovereign in itself, Crown-in-Parliament is. Acts of Parliament are invalid without Royal Assent.
So the power does rest with The Crown. In theory, as said, the last king who defied parliament ended up being executed and the last time Royal Asset was withhold was by Queen Anne in 1708 under the strong advisement of the Prime Minister at the time.

More practically speaking (marginally so), the ruling monarch also reserves the power to dismiss and appoint Prime Ministers and Ministers of the Government. Queen Elizabeth could sack Theresa May tomorrow if she wanted to.

Brexit is political and the Queen does not publicly get involved in politics.

She should though. Just what this #show needs.

originally posted by: mightmight

More practically speaking (marginally so), the ruling monarch also reserves the power to dismiss and appoint Prime Ministers and Ministers of the Government. Queen Elizabeth could sack Theresa May tomorrow if she wanted to.

*Bingo*

The answer to the *poster girl or should I be more precise and say woman

for showing the world How not to flog a dead horse

a reply to: mightmight

The UK doesnt have a constitution. Power rests with the Crown.

In theory maybe, in practice not so much.

If the monarchy ever interfered unduly in the governing of the country I'd be at the forefront of the movement aimed at their total removal.

In theory the Queen has the authority to withold Royal Assent to an act of parliament. The last time that happened was in the early 1800s at the advise of the Government though and the last King who tried opposing Parliamentary rule ended up being executedafter losing the English Civil War in the 1700s.

The Royal Assent has not been refused since 1707, when Queen Anne refused it for a Bill for settling the militia in Scotland.

news.bbc.co.uk...

The English Civil War was fought between 1642 - 1651.
en.wikipedia.org...

Yes, King Charles I was beheaded, we should have done the same to Cromwell later.....but that's another discussion altogether.
Personally I'd do the same to the majority of incompetent, self-serving out of touch and amoral elitists that infest Westminster today and place their heads on Westminster Bridge as a warning....but I digress, again.

Shame the Queen is so old really.

Liz is the ultimate diplomat....and knows her place.
I'm sure any able PM would seek advice from such a woman....but I hope they wouldn't succumb to any misguided pressure.

The entire Brexit affair would be even more interesting with a more engaged Monarch.

I'm sure it would have been....especially as the majority of Brits would probably have resented her intrusion into UK politics and there'd probably be a huge surge in support for at least her abdication and maybe even the abolition of The Monarchy altogether.

Frankly I think that we can all agree that this has been the most screwed-up mess from the start since, well, Suez. I have gone from having no small amount of sympathy for May after Cameron fled from office and left her with this whole disaster to outright contempt for her. She has lied, lied again, tried to browbeat people, dithered, obfuscated and then lied yet again.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Agreed. The only reason she has not resigned seems to be that no one else wants her job at the moment. Corbyn included, probably.

a reply to: oldcarpy

They should give the job to some homeless fellow outside Westminster if "they" have not moved them all on already.

After it's not like the poor souls could do any worse.

a reply to: shooterbrody

I certainly think they'll try.

Well being as quite lately a few titled billionaires have moved their assets to Monaco, that's the rats leaving a sinking ship, what do you think.
It comes down to one thing only, which none of you brexiteers want to admit to. WE are leaving THEM. THEY have all the power. WE have none. So you want to throw yourselves on your swords because, because "we want our sovereignty back".
You want to cut your head off to spite your face.
I'll wait a couple of days to pass judgement when those rebel conservative MPs have published the REAL consequences for leaving the EU and see what nasty little titbits they have been holding back.

originally posted by: crayzeed
Well being as quite lately a few titled billionaires have moved their assets to Monaco, that's the rats leaving a sinking ship, what do you think.
It comes down to one thing only, which none of you brexiteers want to admit to. WE are leaving THEM. THEY have all the power. WE have none. So you want to throw yourselves on your swords because, because "we want our sovereignty back".
You want to cut your head off to spite your face.
I'll wait a couple of days to pass judgement when those rebel conservative MPs have published the REAL consequences for leaving the EU and see what nasty little titbits they have been holding back.

The people have been betrayed

Parliament is full of EU puppets.


ETA
Just seen the EU ministers on the news ......Huge grins on their faces.

As Tory Brexiters have suffered a major blow tonight, a number of pundits suggest that ERG MPs might support May’s deal in a third “meaningful vote” next week. However, it is not for certain that Speaker John Bercow will allow MV3 if the deal is submitted again without any changes, as Ian Dunt, editor of Politics.co.uk, points out:

Ian Dunt
✔
@IanDunt

Replying to @IanDunt

2) It is not clear that Bercow will allow - or even can allow - the govt to put a motion down on the deal again if there have been no changes to it. I'll look into the exact rules on that tomorrow. Health warning on it for now.

Link

That was narrowly avoide...



no, what, Berkov ..?!?

forgive me for not going through the thread
Brexit was betrayed today by voting down No-deal.
my 2c

As many people on here know I'm a passionate Brexit supporter.

Tonight was the final straw.
Whether you are pro-EU or anti-EU we must all agree that this shower of #e who allege to represent us and look after our interests are not to be trusted with the welfare of this country.

I am literally at a loss to express my extent of my contempt for our MP's and the process they allege to represent.

a reply to: all2human



Democracy, The Right to Self Determination and the British people were betrayed tonight.

originally posted by: Freeborn
As many people on here know I'm a passionate Brexit supporter.
Tonight was the final straw.
Whether you are pro-EU or anti-EU we must all agree that this shower of #e who allege to represent us and look after our interests are not to be trusted with the welfare of this country.
I am literally at a loss to express my extent of my contempt for our MP's and the process they allege to represent.

The kow towing, bending and scraping thats been going on by the people

WITH NO BACK BONE that purport to represent us the people

MAKE ME ASHAMED TO BE BRITISH'.

I suspect the remainers in parliament are having pangs and sleepless nights at the thought of being removed from the big eu nipple. without that nipple they will be exposed to the peoples will come the next elections.
f