May Suffers Second Brexit Defeat

originally posted by: Mach2
Being an American, I'm not well informed on the intricacies of this situation.

I don't understand why this is so complicated.

Is it fear of retaliation from the EU?

Can someone briefly explain why it's not possible to just say bye bye?

Because the government/EU do not want to see the end of the EU gravy train/NWO/European army/surveillance/rules and restrictions/immigration etc etc etc

a reply to: Freeborn

I do, actually, know a bit about British/ European history. My ancestry is English.

That's one reason I'm suprised you are having problems implementing the exit.

As with most things, power and $ are likely at the root of the issue I suppose.

a reply to: Mach2

Why it is not possible to just say bye bye:

1. The UK is an intrinsic part of the EU and ripping it out of the EU would inflict severe damage on both sides.
   

Just one example: the Northern Irish border has been completely open for 20+ years thanks to the EU, as Ireland and the UK both are part of the EU. If a hard Brexit occurs, suddenly the border between the UK and Northern ireland would become a real border again. The scars of a 38 year long war between NI and UK are still felt there and a hard border may instill sentiments in the NI and UK population to revive the war (or, as they are known there: "the troubles").

originally posted by: JPtruther

originally posted by: Mach2
Being an American, I'm not well informed on the intricacies of this situation.

I don't understand why this is so complicated.

Is it fear of retaliation from the EU?

Can someone briefly explain why it's not possible to just say bye bye?

Because the government/EU do not want to see the end of the EU gravy train/NWO/European army/surveillance/rules and restrictions/immigration etc etc etc

I was under the impression the relationship was very one sided, in favor of those in Brussels. Can you vote May out at some point?

a reply to: JPtruther

Well, and right they are.

The "gravy train" has resulted in a durable peace in Europe, economic stability, good standards, solid and commonly accepted Laws, spreading of wealth, a more egalitarian EU society and high standards of living. Being able to drive from Sweden to Spain without ever having to have to change your money, being able to pick your residence freely, regarless in which part of the EU.

Yeah, I totally dig why you'd want to change all that back into a situation in which each country fights for itself and against the others...

a reply to: Mach2

As with most things, power and $ are likely at the root of the issue I suppose.

That and maintaining the status quo.

The thing is, the vast majority of politicians and Senior Civil Servants and those whose behest they serve are Remainers.

David Cameron granted a referendum of continued EU membership, almost everyone in MSM, politics etc thought the people would vote to Remain.
All opinion polls suggested so....even on the eve of the vote.

But they under-estimated the will of the British people and their dislike of political union within the EU.

Project Fear has gone into overdrive, MSM has been engaging in enormous amounts of scaremongering and the political elites are scared of the threat to the status quo that they exploit to the full.

For me its simple; we come out on March 29th, then we'll start some real negotiating.
If they want our trade ok, if they don't we'll go elsewhere.

Of course there will still be shared interests on matters of security etc and we share some common values.
In addition most of us have responsibilities to NATO etc.

Being anti-EU does not mean being anti-European.

a reply to: Mach2

Elections are held every 4 years, I believe.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

....the Northern Irish border has been completely open for 20+ years thanks to the EU,....

Absolute and utter bollocks.

The peace in Northern Ireland has absolutely nothing to do with EU and to even suggest so is absolutely outrageous.

It is down to the Irish and British people, no-one and nothing else.

To suggest something as incorrect as that is typical of EU sycophants who grasp at anything in order to give the EU even a small measure of credibility.

If the EU was so interested in maintaining the peace in Northern Ireland it wouldn't be adopting such a hard and uncompromising stance in negotiations.
But as always with the EU its 'principles' take precedence over peace, people and their lives.

You normally provide a well thought out and reasoned viewpoint.....you are way, way wide of the mark on this occasion.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Mach2

But they under-estimated the will of the British people and their dislike of political union within the EU.

Actually, they underestimated the fear that was instilled into the hearts of the British voters by selfish politicians that tried to get into power by telling blatant lies. Fear is never a good guide.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ForteanOrg

....the Northern Irish border has been completely open for 20+ years thanks to the EU,....

Absolute and utter bollocks.

Thank you, I love it when you provide good arguments

But, no, it's not bollocks. The EU borders are open. Ireland is part of the EU and the formerly open border with the UK will become the outer border of the EU after Brexit. Hence it's not just an Irish / British issue, it's an EU/UK issue.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

That's as concisely as i've been able to explain it too !
...

There are so many analogies...
How about this : the UK is a Trojan horse into the EU

If you can trade with the UK
as a ... whatever ... historic, trading partner
you can equally as well trade with the EU, as within
(free trading restrictions, gedddit !)

If the "UK" ain't in
They're no use to us anyone

Hence the recent exodus of companies to Dublin

Bad news if a crash out happens

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
So last night desperate Miss May went of to beg the EU for some more tweeks to the Brexit deal and Parliament have just voted on it and yet again, she has been defeated, again another embarrassing defeat for her government. Tomorrow the plan is now for a vote on "no-deal", the idea being that parliament will cast a vote on leaving with no deal, if parliament vote against no-deal then they will move to have a vote on Thursday for the transition period delayed extending the time frame for negotiation Brexit until after the 29th of March. In other words, it doesn't look like we will be leaving the EU on the 29th of March.

Interesting times in British politics....

Ohhh, lost be 149.

No wonder she is sounding a bit choked.





Link

calm down osotc, it isn't a done deal yet, you will have to wait to crack open the prosecco.

I see more of the equation now than I have ever done in 40 years of having an interest in parliamentary
proceedings, instruments and the development of law.

no-deal (wto terms) may indeed lose the vote and that will signal the eu that we are ready to crawl back
into the fold, ears down like a chastised puppy craving attention and loving validation. all in the hope of
being stroked and lovingly forgiven, the nations of the earth watch on with awe realising the ramifications
of what has occurred. the vultures squabbling the pecking order whilst the hyenas, flat with raised heads
pant in the heat with stinkeyes focused on the promised meat.

the true of the 50% plus one winning majority may never forgive nor forget this whole barsteward cabaret. you may
quietly come to the realisation in the fullness of time that all the peoples of this land are piss-ants and
how dare they assume they have a say in anything whatsoever! you may already be aware of this, maybe not.

have you considered the propaganda borne from affluent remainers post-brexit to steer and fear all peoples
of the uk whilst willingly and knowingly undermining the facade of democracy?
i could argue that remainers have stripped me of my fake democratic right.


at the very least i expect the government to issue scratch and sniff cards to at least the wto die-hards for the lolz
as well as my twisted wish for them to have another dig, edwardian styley.

,,,,,,,,last week in a bills session, commons floor, a bill was prompted by the speaker to the effect
of revealing all those juicy offshore tax havens once and for all. shazaam! up in a puff of smoke, gone, silence as
bercow squints and for a brief moment, speechless, confused and puzzled! a diamond moment in my understanding
of what parliament has bowed down to. anyone see this in media?

you may very well get what you wished for and it's been a fantastic reveal with more to follow.

f.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

So, in spite of the wishes of the citizens/voters, the UK is staying in the EU?

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
Just one example: the Northern Irish border has been completely open for 20+ years thanks to the EU, as Ireland and the UK both are part of the EU.

The border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland has been open because the IRA was defeated and a political solution was found to end the terrorism.

The EU had nothing to do with the unilateral agreements between the UK and the Republic. What has been clear over the last few months is that the Republic of Ireland is a lackey of the EU and has no foreign policy, except that which is dictated by the EU.

The Irish premier is a robot, or perhaps a puppet.

originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

So, in spite of the wishes of the citizens/voters, the UK is staying in the EU?

....no the plan is still to leave, looks like on Thursday they might ask the EU if we can stay just a little longer though

a reply to: andy06shake

Andy you have all the best memes

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
....no the plan is still to leave, looks like on Thursday they might ask the EU if we can stay just a little longer though

To what end would a delay bring? The EU won't budge. They are holding out for a political crisis that ends with referendum number 2.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Dude, trust me, there will not be riots in the streets if the government and the EU agree to extend the Brexit timetable until after the 29th of March.

When a person replies to me , and those are the first words , I dont
Just sayin
(bold by me to emphasize the subject)

Let's let the beffudldeness linger a wee bit longer
put the ketttle on, toast a few muffins
butter a few bits of burnt toast..

We'll wait 'n' see what happens after the 29th
THIS IS NOT REALLY THE uk GOVERNEMENT