Another 737 MAX-8 down

a reply to: hutch622
Oops, that's going to hurt people like Fiji Airways. I'm not sure whether this is knee jerk or CASA knows something, they dont usually jump to bans without a reason. If anything they are frequently slow to react.

I'm still leaning towards this being either a cargo fire, bomb or it was hit by a MANPADS.

Edit: Singapore has of 2pm local time today also placed a temporary ban on the MAX family as well. I cant see how the FAA will now continue to say its all ok over the next 24-72hrs. Seems countries are being added by the hour to the banning list.

Hi Guys and Girls,

First off the loss of life terrible and i feel for the victims and family.

I wonder if the placement of the leap engines being bigger and heavy than the old engines has something to do with this sames odd to lose new aircraft in the take off phase so close to each other.

I bet a few hedge funds have made some cash out of this (not running a conspiracy theory) but buying on disaster or chaos is normally a good plan. Friday the 8th $422USD, Monday the 11 $371, today 400$

RAB

a reply to: RAB

The evidence thus far might suggest a difference in pilot routine.
The 767 is rated for takeoff without flaps but its hard on the tires.
Both the recent crashes occurred within the window that the flaps would be retracted to reduce drag.
At that time if the ASI system toggles a different lift mode formula (flight without flaps for 737 MAX) there could be a software glitch.
Black box will have the information.

Boeing stock was kind of over bought, and a 5% trim isn't much of a bargain if stocks in general are going to compete with bond auctions soon.

a reply to: thebozeian

I think everyone is still at the knee jerk level. There isn't much official yet, with the NTSB, FAA, and Boeing arriving today.

a reply to: hutch622

I would.

To be banned from UK airspace as a precaution.

Civil Aviation Authority has announced it will ban the Boeing 737 Max-8 aircraft from UK airspace "as a precautionary measure" following the Ethiopian Airlines plane crash on Sunday which killed all 157 people on board

TUI grounding their fleet too

TUI Airways has confirmed that all 737 Max-8 aircraft currently operating in the UK have been grounded

Sky News

The pilots reported flight control problems, and the aircraft was apparently not responding to inputs. The recorders will be sent out of Ethiopia to be read, probably to the US. According to the airline statement, the pilots were aware of MCAS and had received the additional training required after the Lion Air crash.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Its sounding like something has hit the plane doesn't it if witnesses are saying they saw it on fire and a loss of controls?

Some eye witness reports say the aircraft was on fire ,smoking, trailering smoke clothes, papers.
then went nose down. Elevator problems? Structure failure?

update. witnesses report

This sounds like some kind of structure failure as well as the elevator structure .One witness states "

Tamirat Abera, 25, was walking past the field at the time. He said the plane turned sharply, trailing white smoke and items like clothes and papers, then crashed about 300 meters away.".

Aside from the elevator problem which is obvious
From the eye witness accounts . The aircraft has a fracture in the fuselage as well.

I haven't flew in years but I know what an elevator problem is and feels like on Starlifter C-141. The 737 definitely had elevator problems going on . But the trailing debris and fire is whole other problem. Lots going on here. I can only speculate but maybe major turbo fan failure being part of it. Seen turbo fan blades tear into a body of an aircraft before and cause all kinds of problems .

a reply to: SJE98

Too many different witness accounts to conclude much of anything.
Your example of the cargo bay area being compromised isn't the usual failure mode for turbofan disintegration.
The passengers on the previous flight reported a tire over-temperature problem after takeoff but that was with a different pilot who might have known how to get around a Vref glitch.

a reply to: Slichter

That's interesting maybe there was a problem with the landing gear overheating and the tyre set alight?

EU banned all 737 Maxs over its airspace?

twitter.com...

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Willtell

The Max has a new system called MCAS that is designed to use elevator trim to lower the nose if the computer detects the aircraft is about to stall. It's the first aircraft Boeing has installed it on, and there was little to no training on it when the Max rolled out.

Mac McClellan had a good article on what, exactly, the MCAS is.

airfactsjournal.com...

originally posted by: solidshot
EU banned all 737 Maxs over its airspace?

twitter.com...

Certainly has I'm having to go with the Mrs to get her grandparents from Manchester at like 2am as they were due to fly back on a 737 max 8 so they're now currently awaiting another plane to fly on.

a reply to: Zaphod58

What sort of damage would a tyre blowing out cause the fuselage if the gear is up? I've seen HGV tyres go and cause a fair amount of damage to a cab and that's what around 120psi would you say? I'm guessing a 737 would have an even higher pressure?!

a reply to: Woody510

If it burst or caught fire in the well, it would be disastrous. Hydraulic lines, fuel lines, and flight controls all run through there. Wheel well fires have brought aircraft down in the past.

a reply to: Zaphod58

One of my worst nightmares when I was still an FE, absolutely nothing you can do except keep going through your emergency checklist waiting on the final bang. (at that flight level)

a reply to: Zaphod58

I thought it wouldn't be a good outcome then. I remember the damage and outcome from the Air France Concorde and that wasn't even in an enclosed space.

You can’t have two horrible crashes killing hundreds by the same plane in a matter of months. And the first accident they didn’t properly follow standard training procedures for technological innovation and or upgrades and not expect this kind of response.

a reply to: Willtell

The issue I have is with people seeing unstable vertical speed and jumping straight to "Boeing built an unsafe aircraft". It doesn't help with the media writing articles about Boeing making history with the first aircraft to have two major accidents within a year of entering service.