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Another 737 MAX-8 down

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posted on Jun, 3 2019 @ 02:52 AM
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I hope the lawyers are getting warmed up...




posted on Jun, 3 2019 @ 03:09 AM
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a reply to: Blackfinger

The slat issue isn't a huge deal. Yeah, it's a screw up, but it's not going to bring a plane down.



posted on Jun, 3 2019 @ 04:21 AM
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I'll just leave this here...

Inexcusable



posted on Jun, 29 2019 @ 08:45 PM
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Boeing outsourced some of the software development and testing to low paid workers in India.



posted on Jun, 29 2019 @ 09:44 PM
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a reply to: roadgravel

From the Bloomberg article linked in your source:


In offices across from Seattle’s Boeing Field, recent college graduates employed by the Indian software developer HCL Technologies Ltd. occupied several rows of desks, said Mark Rabin, a former Boeing software engineer who worked in a flight-test group that supported the Max.


They were employed by an Indian company, but were in the US.



posted on Jun, 30 2019 @ 07:36 AM
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it is my understanding that every software is tested before deployment on hardware



posted on Jun, 30 2019 @ 08:49 AM
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a reply to: Hyperboles

Both in the simulator and on actual aircraft.



posted on Jun, 30 2019 @ 09:01 AM
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a reply to: Hyperboles

If the aircraft had proper stability throughout the flight envelope, they would not have needed MCAS.

Boeing cheated the system by bringing an unstable aircraft to market.



posted on Jun, 30 2019 @ 10:07 AM
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a reply to: Salander

Actually worse than that. It's not that the aircraft itself isn't stable; it is. The issue is, it's not really a 737...and Boeing (and the airlines) tried to force it into being a 737. This, to avoid the costs of buying expensive new simulators and paying pilots to certify in a new aircraft type. So, they implemented an automated system, MCAS, which would make it more like the plane it's not, and avoid all the equipment, re-certifications and re-training time. A system which would completely take control away from pilots who where trying to fly a (real) 737, pilots who were trained to fly a 737, when they were really flying a 7X7. The only problem with their plan was, the MCAS system is faulty and causes the 7X7 to plummet into the ground killing everyone on board.

And here's another scary thing; no airline has a 737-Max simulator for training. None, zero, nada. The only people with a simulator is Boeing. So even if the airlines wanted to run their pilots through a MAX simulator they couldn't because no one but Boeing has one (and they're not sharing). Don't lose too much sleep over this though because the airlines had no intentions of ever running their pilots through additional simulator training!

And let's not forget about the FAA. Somewhere there's a "recently retired" senior FAA official sitting around the pool of his brand new 25,000 sq. ft. Virginia mansion, sipping on a cute little drink with an umbrella it it and smirking about the fact it's no longer his problem to worry about as he watches CNN.



Boeing,, in concert with the FAA and the airlines, really fornicated the canine on this one!



posted on Jun, 30 2019 @ 12:04 PM
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originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: Salander
And here's another scary thing; no airline has a 737-Max simulator for training. None, zero, nada. The only people with a simulator is Boeing.


Can you provide a source for this please? It's my understanding carriers can get the simulator, some even have it, but it wouldn't simulate MCAS problems correctly requiring a software update.



posted on Jun, 30 2019 @ 12:15 PM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I actually work for an airline, more specifically the simulators. I can assure you they do have simulators for the Max 8's. Absolutely none of your post is based on reality at all. It's true, Boeing screwed the pooch with the software issue, but the plane is a 737 800. Max series. There is no 7X7. They also have a Max 7 and a Max 9. I do believe Southwest is replacing most of it's older 737-700s with Max 7s. United and American both use the Max 9. The Max's are the future of Boeing. They are going to get fixed and back in the air.



posted on Jun, 30 2019 @ 01:09 PM
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Only one airline is in possession of a full motion MAX simulator, and this is Air Canada. The only reason they have one is because they didn't fly NG's. CBT is a completely different issue (and not what I was referring to).

The older simulators can't replicate the MCAS function because they didn't have it. This is all CBT, not simulator time.

The only other FAA FFS Level D simulators are all owned by Boeing.

And no, the MAX is NOT a 737-800 "max series". The 737-MAX 8 is different generation. But you should know this, right?

ETA - The MAX simulators won't start being delivered until about December 2019. Why do you suppose the American Airlines Pilot Union is screaming for access to Boeing's simulators before returning to the air in the MAX???

Oh, and yes, I am acutely aware there is no such thing as a "7X7". I just used that as an expression with the 'x' being a placeholder.
edit on 6/30/2019 by Flyingclaydisk because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2019 @ 01:27 PM
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a reply to: DaMac

Lots of airlines have simulators for the NG series, but not the MAX. These simulators can be replicate many of the MAX functions, but they don't have an MCAS to replicate. CBT only for that.



posted on Jun, 30 2019 @ 01:28 PM
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Dbl.


edit on 6/30/2019 by Flyingclaydisk because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2019 @ 06:41 PM
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a reply to: therlloy




Absolutely none of your post is based on reality at all. It's true,


Really?? You think so???

YOU are wrong!

If you'd like to debate it further...I'm here!!



posted on Jul, 1 2019 @ 03:15 AM
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originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: DaMac

Lots of airlines have simulators for the NG series, but not the MAX. These simulators can be replicate many of the MAX functions, but they don't have an MCAS to replicate. CBT only for that.



Ethiopian Airlines has a 737 MAX 8 simulator. Do you deny this? I'm asking to be thorough because in the follow-on post referencing news articles, some were redundant and not specific to what I asked. Again, I asked for sources that BOEING was the only one in the world to possess a 737 MAX simulator. This doesn't also mean bleeding-edge software updates, just the simulator.

Please provide those specific sources.


edit on 1-7-2019 by DaMac because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2019 @ 07:27 AM
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a reply to: DaMac

I have read the same thing on at least one source (i.e. that Ethiopian has MAX sims). However, that same source went on to say they had something like (13) of them, which I seriously doubt so I am dubious because only a scant few have been delivered to anyone. My personal opinion (which means about zero here) is that Eithiopian may have (13) 737 NG simulators which have been upgraded with the MAX software (without the MCAS feature), but not actual MAX simulators with the MCAS feature. I base this opinion on the fact that Ethiopian has a large fleet of NG aircraft (33 of them in service), and only (4) MAX 8's in service. Numerous airlines have MAX simulators on order, but they aren't scheduled to begin arriving until late 4th quarter 2019.

Consequently, I cannot provide you a specific source of exactly what you have asked one way or the other, though I have looked. All I can confirm at this point is the only North American airline with a dedicated MAX simulator is Air Canada. I have seen references which seem to indicate at least one European airline may have one other one (outside of Boeing's), but it was not specific as to what airline (Norwegian Air Shuttle maybe?).

One thing I can say with certainty is, there is considerable confusion about simulators and the differences between them being tossed around in the media.

Best I've got for you, sorry.
edit on 7/1/2019 by Flyingclaydisk because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2019 @ 12:43 PM
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I'll just leave this here...

Boeing outsourcing software to cut costs



posted on Jul, 1 2019 @ 01:11 PM
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edit on 7/1/2019 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



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