Another 737 MAX-8 down

a reply to: moebius

They're hardly "falling out of the sky". They've delivered almost 400 aircraft, and suffered two accidents to date.

a reply to: 1947boomer

One of the articles that I read yesterday talked about the system applying more force than originally believed when it goes nose down.

I absolutely agree with Sully Sullenberger that, even if the First Officer had 350 hours, that is stupidly low time to have in any aircraft, let alone a new type. I don't care if the ICAO says 200 is the minimum, they should have at least 1,000 to be sitting in that seat.

One of the articles that I read yesterday talked about the system applying more force than originally believed when it goes nose down.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Watching last nights episode of AIR DISASTERS had QUANTAS 72 accident

QUANTAS 72 was Airbus 330 from Singapore to Perth Australia when plane began to violently pitch down

Did this several times - many of passengers and crew suffered injuries when thrown around cabin

Several other Airbus 330 had suffered similar incidents, but not as violent

Was traced to (drum roll....) the aircraft stall protection system . Here corrupted data in flight management computer
was interpreted by the computer as impending stall when thought angle of attack of wings too high

Plane then pitched the nose down causing Negative G which threw people into the cabin ceiling

Law of unintended consequences - try to fix one problem, cause another ………..

a reply to: Zaphod58

350 hours works out just over 14 continuous days ... that really doesn't sound a lot. And 200 minimum ?!? Even to me who has very little knowledge on aviation protocols that seems way too little

Engineers are alleging that the MCAS was rushed, and they were pressured by Boeing executives to meet deadlines. The FAA delegated the certification of the system to Boeing. Initial claims were that the system would allow a 0.6 degree tail movement, which would correspond to 5 degrees nose down. After Lion Air crashed, Boeing admitted that the tail movement could be as much as 2.5 degrees. That would equate to a much higher nose down pitch.

www.foxnews.com...

a reply to: ThePeaceMaker

It is far too little. That doesn't give you the experience to know what to do to assist with an emergency. I understand that pilots need hours to get experience, but they can get it flying for small airlines and building experience. As a couple of opinion pieces have pointed out, the same type of aircraft flying in areas that require much higher training hours, have seen nose pitch down incidents, and they've been handled with no problem.

I thought the MCAS was only active when the pilot was hand flying the aircraft?

a reply to: Zaphod58
Yeh that's crazy I've got to complete 160 hours of extra training and driving over the next four week for my work to accept me as a driver and that's just driving a semi truck even though I've passed two UK standard driving test

Are those minimum 200 hours flying in a particular aircraft or 200 hours in a pilots/first officers flying career ?

a reply to: Flipper35

It is, which is why I think it's other than MCAS, but software related.

a reply to: ThePeaceMaker

According to what Ethiopian said, it's 200 hours for a Commercial Pilot License. Once you have that, and complete your type rating, you can be in the cockpit.

the software I think was overriding the throttle or power settings
a reply to: Zaphod58

Prior to the accident the DOT IG and Justice Department had begun a criminal investigation into the certification process, including seating a grand jury. FAA employees warned, prior to the Max certification beginning, that Boeing had too much oversight of the certification process of their aircraft. This also created a problem for FAA employees, who said they faced punishment if they spoke up.

www.seattletimes.com...

originally posted by: Zaphod58
Prior to the accident the DOT IG and Justice Department had begun a criminal investigation into the certification process, including seating a grand jury. FAA employees warned, prior to the Max certification beginning, that Boeing had too much oversight of the certification process of their aircraft. This also created a problem for FAA employees, who said they faced punishment if they spoke up.

www.seattletimes.com...

Well shoot, none of that sounds too great, does it?

Think it will get covered up or brushed over?

a reply to: KansasGirl

If I was still a betting man I would wager the criminal blame will get shifted to a contractor that worked on the software for the plane.


Civil is still up in the air, but I would be gobsmacked if Boeing faces any criminal negligence back lash in the states at least.

a reply to: KansasGirl

Oh the stories I could tell. The FAA should have been disbanded or gone after years ago.

So, you know how you're laying in bed, trying to fall asleep, and that thought hits and you're wide awake again?

I think MCAS caused the crash, but didn't start it. I think the crew engaged the autopilot, the aircraft pitched down, they disengaged the autopilot and pulled up, at which point MCAS did its thing and started pushing the nose down, resulting in rapid oscillations, and at some point they either had some kind of structural failure, or lost power.

MCAS should know batter. Thsese aircraft are pretty unforgiving, if you mishandle the pitch
a reply to: Zaphod58

a reply to: Zaphod58

MCAS did it all by itself, and apparently it was reading only one AOA instrument. At the very least it should have been reading multiple sensors.

In a big hurry-up, Boeing really dropped the ball. By rights the Max should have been treated as a new type, not a warmed over 737.

Somebody's head is going to roll, and it will not be the CEO's

a reply to: Salander

If the autopilot was engaged, then MCAS didn't do it by itself. It's an amazing coincidence that the aircraft pitches down after autopilot is engaged, remarkably like this incident started.

a reply to: Hyperboles

It should, yes. But it's an amazing coincidence that crews have seen the aircraft nose over as soon as the autopilot is activated. That would set up a pretty bad situation, especially with an untrained pilot sitting in one of the seats.