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Born Again Christians believe only 144,000 people out of over 7,000,000,000 will be "saved"

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posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 08:54 AM
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I'm starting this thread because someone in another thread, posted this comment. If this is truly how the "born agains" feel, I'd like to know how it makes sense. Aren't a lot of born agains wasting there time if only 144,000 souls will be saved? Isn't it possible that the 144,000 have already died?

Personally, I think this is absurd. My God believes all souls are worth saving. I'd like others opinions on this. All religions, faiths and otherwise. Thanks!

[edit on 1-3-2005 by Zabilgy]




posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 08:56 AM
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If i remember correctly from what I was taught, the 144,000 people saved is supposed to refer to people saved during the great tribulation period.



posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 09:35 AM
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``

if you would click on this link (below)
you will see that there is a difference between the 144,000 and the 'multitude'

www.apocalipsis.org...


by 'saved', what do you mean?
the 144,000 which were 'sealed'
the 'multitude' that were 'redeemed'
the survivors are the few that remain alive after the judgements/tribulations

don't clarify to me--- clarify 'saved' to yourself
have a nice day



posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 09:41 AM
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The 144,000 are in fact only "men" of the 12 tribes. If there are only Jews in current Israel, where are the other 'tribes"?



posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 09:42 AM
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What the quote seems to be referencing is a doctrine of the Jehovah's Witnesses. They used to adhere to a strict 144,000 got into heaven line, that is until there were more than 144,000 Jehovah's Witnesses. Suddenly modifications to that doctrine started showing up in watchtower publications ( the JW's publishing house) Most people understand that JW are not mainstream christians but some kind of cult like splinter group. They have their own very loose translation of the Bible and some off beat doctrines. They are not as apostate as the mormons are to historical Christianity but they are too far out to be considered Evangelical, prodistant, or catholic.



posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 09:43 AM
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If you consider Jehovah Witnesses born again, then yeah some born agains believe that. They are the ones that believe only 144,000 people will be saved.

However the bible states that the 144,000 that were sealed were from each tribe, so I'm guessing they're Jews. It doesn't say much more about them. What does it all mean? Why were they picked out? What is their purpose? I'm not all sure.

In the same passage (kjv):

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands
...
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

www.biblegateway.com...

seems like more than 144000 to me....





[edit on 1-3-2005 by ThatsJustWeird]



posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 09:44 AM
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The 144,000 actually refers to the number of people with Jewish beliefs that will be converted to Christians during the Great Tribulation and therefore be brought into God's kingdom on Judgement Day.



posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 10:46 AM
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It is referred to twice in the bible and often taken out of cotext to promote ulterior motives
Revelations chapter 7

Sects in every age have seen themselves in John's 144,000. The number has become synonymous with those who are saved, elect or chosen. When these sects grow beyond that magic number, they often begin to interpret Revelation symbolically rather than literally, and in fact there are clues within the text that a symbolic interpretation is required. The number 144,000 is something John says he heard (v. 4), not something he saw or was permitted to count.

The 144,000 is symbolic number of a great multitude too numerous to count. "The twelve tribes, times twelve, times a thouand" since even in the time of moses there were more then this number of belivers

Gen 16:10 The angel added, "I will so increase your descendants that they will be too numerous to count."

Gen 22:17 I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies,

Exodus 1:7 but the Israelites were fruitful and multiplied greatly and became exceedingly numerous, so that the land was filled with them.



posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 10:49 AM
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actually being an ex JW, 144,000 is and always had been the number of those actually going to heaven, the rest of us stay here on earth after the tribulation to recreate paradise and live happy everlasting lives!



posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by Zabilgy
I'm starting this thread because someone in another thread, posted this comment. If this is truly how the "born agains" feel, I'd like to know how it makes sense. Aren't a lot of born agains wasting there time if only 144,000 souls will be saved? Isn't it possible that the 144,000 have already died?

Personally, I think this is absurd. My God believes all souls are worth saving. I'd like others opinions on this. All religions, faiths and otherwise. Thanks!

[edit on 1-3-2005 by Zabilgy]



I think these 144,000 chosen one are sleepers...and they will be trigger later to help promote the New World Religion...and the second coming of the (clone) Christ...somewhere around 2010...

[edit on 1-3-2005 by mwen]



posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 11:08 AM
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What the quote seems to be referencing is a doctrine of the Jehovah's Witnesses. They used to adhere to a strict 144,000 got into heaven line, that is until there were more than 144,000 Jehovah's Witnesses. Suddenly modifications to that doctrine started showing up in watchtower publications ( the JW's publishing house) Most people understand that JW are not mainstream christians but some kind of cult like splinter group. They have their own very loose translation of the Bible and some off beat doctrines. They are not as apostate as the mormons are to historical Christianity but they are too far out to be considered Evangelical, prodistant, or catholic.


I was always a bit weirded out by the JW's...they are an odd bunch. Seems from what I'm hearing, in modern times, this 144,000 figure is nonsense. I was just curious why anyone would still believe this.



I think these 144,000 chosen one are sleepers...and they will be trigger later to help promote the New World Religion...and the second coming of the (clone) Christ...somewhere around 2010...


The clone Christ? Can you expand upon this? I never heard that a clone of Christ was coming. I know there is talk of the second coming, but I wasn't aware it was to be a clone. Were they aware of clones back when Jesus first died and there was talk then of the second coming?


Theoretically, I guess he could be cloned if we could find his remains and any DNA allowing a clone to be made. That actually would be pretty cool!! But, in today's society, what would he turn out like?

[edit on 1-3-2005 by Zabilgy]



posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 11:13 AM
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The spaceship only has room for 144000 DNA samples.



posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 11:35 AM
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Zabilgy:

You could start from the info below:



A number of controversial book authors such as Al Bielak, Preston Nichols, Stewart Swerdlow, Peter Moon and others claim to have been part of a clandestine military project dubbed the 'Montauk Project' which used advanced technology such as genetic cloning, holographic projection and time-travel. Such technology was said to have been given to clandestine government organizations by various ET races. If such reports are accurate, then it would be possible and even likely that the pervasive belief in a 'Second Coming' could be exploited by ET groups that freely intervene in human affairs and who typically enter into agreements with clandestine government organizations. Using time travel technology, such ET races could use DNA samples from the 'historic Jesus' or religious relics such as the Shroud of Turin, to clone a hybrid ET/human being that could be passed off as the returning Christ. Using holographic projection around key areas of the globe, such a figure could appear in the miraculous manner expected by religious adherents. As the result of DNA testing and a host of miracles manufactured either by ET holographic technology or by the ET/human hybrid himself, such a being and his supporters could persuade a sufficient number of believers from the different religious traditions that he was the returning Christ/Messiah/Isa/Kalki/Maitreya.

www.crawford2000.co.uk...

If the so-called Christ did return, he would have his blood tested to verify that he is actually the Christ that came the first time. And once it's proven, no one would be able to deny that he is not actually the original Christ...

[edit on 1-3-2005 by mwen]



posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 01:43 PM
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or religious relics such as the Shroud of Turin


It's under massive debate whether that garment is real. Most evidence is in favor of it being fake.



to clone a hybrid ET/human being that could be passed off as the returning Christ


If Christ wasn't a hybrid, how could his clone be a hybrid? That makes no sense. A clone would be identical to the original being. A hybrid would not be a clone.



Using holographic projection around key areas of the globe, such a figure could appear in the miraculous manner expected by religious adherents. As the result of DNA testing and a host of miracles manufactured either by ET holographic technology or by the ET/human hybrid himself, such a being and his supporters could persuade a sufficient number of believers from the different religious traditions that he was the returning Christ/Messiah/Isa/Kalki/Maitreya.


How could a hologram be tested for anything? A hologram isn't real. It's a projected image that could "appear" real, but how could anyone do tests on a hologram? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever!



posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 01:59 PM
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Ahh...but to be "saved" in Christianity usually means after one's death...


The "sealed" ones, the 144000, will not be "touched" at all by the tribulations, whereas the multitudes will be "saved" but after all of the nastiness...

At least that's the way I read it.

It's rather ambiguous, so different sects read different things into it...

What ISN'T ambiguous at all, is that Revelation states the 144000 will be virgin men, and descendants of the twelve tribes of Isreal....



posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 02:20 PM
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What ISN'T ambiguous at all, is that Revelation states the 144000 will be virgin men, and descendants of the twelve tribes of Isreal....


So the born agains have it all wrong, the 144,000 that will be saved will be Jews? Still seems like an awfully small figure.....

Are there any Born Again Jews?



posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 02:30 PM
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Isn't this what the Rapture is all about? The 144,000 go straight to Heaven, and return to live in The City Of God. In the meantime, the rest of us suffer the "birth pangs" of God rebirthing the world.

Good luck finding something to clone Christ. Didn't they do this in an episode of Star Trek: TNG with a Klingon Prophet?



posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 02:31 PM
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While I'm much more inclined to believe the 144,000 is in reference to the the tribes of Israel, I'd say it's equally possible that at the time of Revelations, there will only be 144,000 who are "genuinely good christians," and the rest are the hate-filled ignorant trash that try to force the rest of the world to change into their very tiny-minded view.



posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 02:34 PM
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Wow, 15 different interpretations and people refering to "my god." I love this site.

The bible is symbolism, allegory. I have also heard that number is the number that will stay on earth and guide the people not taken during rapture and guide them safely through the tribulation. Guy's relax.

Lets keep the conspiracies flowing though.



posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 02:53 PM
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This number, 144.000, appears only in Revelations, right? A very questionable prophecy, if it is a prophecy at all.

The rest of the Bible is about believing in Christ, that being your salvation. There is no number, no limitation on how many will be saved.
Other religions do not mention it either. In Islam, everyone who leads a righteous life will be saved.

Also, I highly doubt that this whole world, universe and human civilisation exist only to save descedants of 12 ancient tribes, the rest of humanity being doomed for all eternity, regardless of what they did in life. That story doesn't make sense either.

144,000 really doesn't make any sense, if you think about it.

Could be that Revelations are not a prophecy of future at all, could be that the real meaning got lost in translation, or that John simply didn't know how to count



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