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The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons opposes federally mandated vaccines.

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posted on Mar, 9 2019 @ 05:46 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: rickymouse

I guess smallpox never killed people until processed foods and stuff like vaccines came along.



Smallpox was worth making a vaccine for, it is much more dangerous than the measles ever was, and people rarely died from the flu when I was a kid and there were no vaccines those days. In fact, not many kids even missed much school, once in a while someone had the flu but now it seems there are sometimes fifty kids out of this local school.

The smallpox vaccine did screw up quite a few people, some died and some had permanent side effects. Because of those side effects they abandoned the vaccine for many years, but the vaccine already had got rid of smallpox by that point. The Smallpox vaccine was very efficient, the flu vaccines are by far not as efficient as the Smallpox was.




posted on Mar, 9 2019 @ 05:47 PM
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a reply to: rickymouse




and people rarely died from the flu when I was a kid

Bull#. As a kid, you paid no attention.



The smallpox vaccine did screw up quite a few people, some died and some had permanent side effects. Because of those side effects they abandoned the vaccine for many years, but the vaccine already had got rid of smallpox by that point.
I don't think I'll ever get used to the way you talk in circles.



The Smallpox vaccine was very efficient, the flu vaccines are by far not as efficient as the Smallpox was.
Yes. Because smallpox didn't change every year.

edit on 3/9/2019 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 9 2019 @ 05:58 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: rickymouse

You know that article says that good nutrition works hand in hand with vaccinations, right? Helps them to be more effective.



It also addresses how the innate immune system works swiftly while the antigen system takes a week to kick in. Even with the vaccination, it still takes a week most times. Keeping the innate system working is better than antigen vaccinations. The Japanese have figured out how to boost the innate system with a vaccine now, they are in the testing stage on people I think, and the innate system by default also protects people from cancer if you do not screw it up.



posted on Mar, 9 2019 @ 06:26 PM
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a reply to: rickymouse

A whole week?



posted on Mar, 9 2019 @ 08:07 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: rickymouse

A whole week?


Well, not always one week, but most times it takes about a week according to other articles I read. The other articles did not say up to several weeks like this one does. When you start showing symptoms of the flu, it is said to usually have been obtained five days to fourteen days prior to the symptoms according to the doctors who are quoting what they were taught. The symptoms of the flu are actually the immune response or your body fighting the infection. It has been growing in your body and expanding for that long. The innate system usually kills the flu virus swiftly, it never gets started. Also, type A and B flu viruses need the human protein sugars in the mucus to take hold and get energy to start, if you have the some FUT 2 mutations, you do not put the human protein sugar into the mucus and it is harder for the viruses and some bacteria to start growing. Type O blood individuals also do not put those blood antigen protein sugars into the mucus either I guess. Another words many people in the USA have some natural protection to the flu viruses, these people do not get the flu very often, vaccine or not. There are a combination of things that determine risks. Half the people in the USA that get vaccinated really do not need to anyway, they rarely are susceptible especially if their innate immune system utilizes the muccus to fight the virus immediately. Trouble is that when people sneeze once they go for the antimuccosal meds and screw up their immunity. When they sense a pathogen, they go for antihistimine meds like Benedryl because they are scared. There are some major problems with our people dampening their immune system and then the virus takes hold. I understand that people do not want to be sneezing on the bus or at the store oere at work, but then they get sick. They just need to take a zinc lozenger at that point.

From the article


Adaptive immunity Adaptive immunity (also called acquired immunity), a second line of defense against pathogens, takes several days or weeks to fully develop. However, adaptive immunity is much more complex than innate immunity because it involves antigen-specific responses and immunologic "memory." Exposure to a specific antigen on an invading pathogen stimulates production of immune cells that target the pathogen for destruction (1). Immunologic “memory” means that immune responses upon a second exposure to the same pathogen are faster and stronger because antigens are "remembered." Primary mediators of the adaptive immune response are B lymphocytes (B cells) and T lymphocytes (T cells). B cells produce antibodies, which are specialized proteins that recognize and bind to foreign proteins or pathogens in order to neutralize them or mark them for destruction by macrophages. The response mediated by antibodies is called humoral immunity. In contrast, cell-mediated immunity is carried out by T cells — lymphocytes that develop in the thymus. Different subgroups of T cells have different roles in adaptive immunity. For instance, cytotoxic T cells (killer T cells) directly attack and kill infected cells, while helper T cells enhance the responses and thus aid in the function of other lymphocytes (5, 6). Regulatory T cells, sometimes called suppressor T cells, suppress immune responses (4). In addition to its vital role in innate immunity, the complement system modulates adaptive immune responses and is one example of the interplay between the innate and adaptive immune systems (7, 12). Components of both innate and adaptive immunity interact and work together to protect the body from infection and disease.



posted on Mar, 9 2019 @ 09:06 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

The overwhelming number of scientists and doctors support vaccinations.


The overwhelming number you talk about get incentives from pushing vaccinations. It's either all about the "mulla" for them, or they believe what vaccines makers tell them despite what other studies say...


originally posted by: ScepticScot
That you chose to believe a fringe advocacy group instead doesn't make you better informed, it makes you a victim of confirmation bias.


Fringe group my butt... Again, studies show the contrary to your claims. But yet again, fringe groups like yours always claim that those of us who want safer vaccines are "anti-vaxxers..."

BTW, in case you didn't know "consensus" don't make anyone right.



posted on Mar, 9 2019 @ 09:08 PM
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originally posted by: MonkeyFishFrog

It is the epitome of selfishness and ignorance. First world privileged idiots.


Yeah, first world privileged idiots who want to push their beliefs unto others... But what's new? There is a plethora of "views" that certain groups keep trying to push down the throats of everyone.



posted on Mar, 9 2019 @ 09:12 PM
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originally posted by: projectvxn

Post those actual, published studies. Preferably timely and as voluminous as the studies that have been done for decades on the efficacy of vaccines.


I have, many times. But those like you always want to claim those studies don't matter, or that the experts "are not really experts," or some other excuses not to admit the fact that the claims about "vaccines being safe' is false.

Not to mention the fact that people like me argue for "safer vaccines," yet for that people like you call us "anti-vaxxers."


originally posted by: projectvxn
Also:
Notes from the Field: Tetanus in an Unvaccinated Child — Oregon, 2017
...
The costs of not vaccinating.

This boy suffered greatly because of the irresponsibility of his parents.


Let me ask you something... Why do you think there are lawyers who work specifically for vaccine injuries like the TDaP & DTaP Vaccine? (for tetanus)



$25 million recovered in 2017-2018
TDaP & DTaP Vaccine Injuries and Reactions

The Tetanus, Diphtheria, and Pertussis ("TDaP") and Diphtheria, Tetanus, and Pertussis ("DTaP") vaccines can cause various adverse reactions and injuries including shoulder injuries, Encephalitis, Encephalomyelitis ("ADEM"), Anaphylaxis, seizures, allergic reactions, and other injuries. The TDaP and DTaP vaccines are administered to prevent three bacterial diseases: Diphtheria, Tetanus, and Pertussis. As one of the most frequently received vaccines in the United States, adverse reactions and injuries following the TDaP and DTaP vaccines are common. If you or a loved one has been injured, you may be entitled to compensation from a federal fund called the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Trust Fund.
...

www.myvaccinelawyer.com...


edit on 9-3-2019 by ElectricUniverse because: add and correct comment.



posted on Mar, 9 2019 @ 09:17 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
Bull#. As a kid, you paid no attention.


So now it is BS that people who don't vaccinate don't die from the flu?... Because in case you didn't know a lot of people don't get flu shots, including myself, and the most I have gotten is a runny nose for a couple of days or so for several years now...


originally posted by: Phage
Yes. Because smallpox didn't change every year.


And the flu shot you get are strains from past years, so they don't work for the new strain that changes every year, so why vaccinate for the flu when the old strains won't cure the new strain?

The high dose of the flu shot it's supposedly only 30% effective, which is 20% less than random.



posted on Mar, 9 2019 @ 09:17 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

How many doses are doled out each year? There are risks to everything. Sometimes it's not the drug itself, but the delivery method itself.

Regardless, are you telling me that this 6-year-old boy is better off fighting for his life in agony instead of taking a shot he would be fine taking?



posted on Mar, 9 2019 @ 09:20 PM
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originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

How many doses are doled out each year? There are risks to everything. Sometimes it's not the drug itself, but the delivery method itself.

Regardless, are you telling me that this 6-year-old boy is better off fighting for his life in agony instead of taking a shot he would be fine taking?


But are you telling ME that another boy who is severely injured from a vaccine, or even killed, might have been better off getting measles with a 99.9% probability of recovering?

It's really tit for tat, which is why it needs to be a choice.



posted on Mar, 9 2019 @ 09:21 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse




So now it is BS that people who don't vaccinate don't die from the flu?

No.
Not now, not ever.

edit on 3/9/2019 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 9 2019 @ 09:24 PM
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a reply to: thebtheb




It's really tit for tat, which is why it needs to be a choice.


It's not tit for tat. The numbers VASTLY and OVERWHELMINGLY favor vaccines.



posted on Mar, 9 2019 @ 09:30 PM
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originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

How many doses are doled out each year? There are risks to everything. Sometimes it's not the drug itself, but the delivery method itself.

Regardless, are you telling me that this 6-year-old boy is better off fighting for his life in agony instead of taking a shot he would be fine taking?


Are you telling me that all those people, and children who have suffered injuries, or have died from vaccines are better off than actually wanting safer vaccines?


1 Vaccine Injury TableApplies Only to Petitions for Compensation Filed under the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Programon or after March 21, 2017(a) In accordance with section 312(b) of the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986, title III of Public Law 99-660, 100 Stat. 3779 (42 U.S.C. 300aa-1 note) and section 2114(c) of the Public Health Service Act, as amended (PHS Act) (42 U.S.C. 300aa-14(c)), the following is a table of vaccines, the injuries, disabilities, illnesses, conditions, and deaths resulting from the administration of such vaccines, and the time period in which the first symptom or manifestation of onset or of the significant aggravation of such injuries, disabilities, illnesses, conditions, and deaths is to occur after vaccine administration for purposes of receiving compensation under the Program. Paragraph (b) of this section sets forth additional provisions that are not separately listed in this Table but that constitute part of it. Paragraph (c) of this section sets forth the qualifications and aids to interpretation for the terms used in the Table. Conditions and injuries that do not meet the terms of the qualifications and aids to interpretation are not within the Table. Paragraph (d) of this section sets forth a glossary of terms used in paragraph (c)
...

www.hrsa.gov...



The Institute of Medicine has acknowledged that there is individual susceptibility to vaccine reactions for genetic, biological and environmental reasons, but that vaccine providers cannot accurately predict prior to a vaccines administration who will suffer complications, injury or death from vaccination.1 However, a person who has previously had a serious reaction to a vaccination or is acutely or chronically ill should become informed about all potential risks associated with vaccination and discuss any concerns with a trusted health care professional before receiving a DTaP/Tdap vaccine or any other vaccine.

B. pertussis bacteria, which cause pertussis whooping cough disease, and lab altered to make pertussis vaccine, contain several toxins that can cause inflammation in the body. Pertussis toxin (PT) is one of the most lethal toxins in nature and this toxin induces lymphocytosis, leukocytosis, stimulates insulin secretion and sensitizes histamine, which is involved in the immune systems inflammatory response.2

Pertussis toxin is thought to be the main component of B pertussis bacteria responsible for stimulating the production of protective antibodies during natural whooping cough infection and after pertussis vaccination. Pertussis toxin is also thought to be the main component responsible for causing brain inflammation during B. pertussis whooping cough or after injection of pertussis-containing vaccines.3 4

Since the 1950’s, scientists have injected pertussis toxin into lab animals whenever they want to deliberately induce histamine, serotonin and endotoxin sensitivity or experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis.5 6 7 Because pertussis toxin can cross the blood brain barrier when conditions are right, brain inflammation (encephalitis) that causes permanent brain damage has always been the most dreaded serious complication of both whooping cough and pertussis vaccination.
...
In 1991, the Institute of Medicine (IOM), National Academy of Sciences, published the first of four reports of expert committees, which reviewed the medical literature for evidence that vaccines can cause injury and death.16 The literature review was mandated under the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986. The 1991 IOM report on Adverse Effects of Pertussis and Rubella Vaccines17 concluded thatevidence is consistent with a causal relation between DPT vaccine and acute encephalopathy (brain inflammation) andunusual shock-like state”18 (hypotonic/hyporesponsive episode): and thatevidence indicates a causal relation between DPT vaccine and shock (anaphylaxis) and protracted, inconsolable crying.
...

www.nvic.org...


edit on 9-3-2019 by ElectricUniverse because: add comment.



posted on Mar, 9 2019 @ 09:37 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse




Are you telling me that all those people, and children who have suffered injuries from vaccines are better off than actually wanting safer vaccines?


Strawman. Vaccines are safe.



posted on Mar, 9 2019 @ 09:50 PM
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originally posted by: projectvxn

Strawman. Vaccines are safe.


If they were safe there wouldn't be people with injuries, or people who have died from vaccines... You are only denying the fact that "vaccines are not safe." For crying out loud. I even gave you government info that state vaccines are not safe yet you claim they are.



posted on Mar, 9 2019 @ 09:53 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

For the overwhelmingly vast majority, they are safe.



posted on Mar, 9 2019 @ 10:02 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse


I even gave you government info that state vaccines are not safe yet you claim they are.
Do you think that those with allergies would be required to vaccinate if there were such laws?

I don't. In fact, I don't think there should be such laws.

Just glancing at that list, I see anaphylaxis. That would be severe allergic reaction. Yes. Allergic reactions are bad and should be watched out for.

I then see "Shoulder Injury Related to Vaccine Administration", what's that about? Not any vaccine, but how it's administered. From the AAP itself:

Shoulder injury related to vaccine administration (SIRVA) is believed to be caused by an immune response following inadvertent, direct injection of a vaccine into the deltoid bursa or joint space.

www.aappublications.org...


edit on 3/9/2019 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 9 2019 @ 10:04 PM
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originally posted by: projectvxn

Strawman. Vaccines are safe.


Why is it that the U.S. has a higher vaccination percentage, at 59.3% in the 2014-2015 flu season, than Israel, the coverage in Israel is 19% of the population is vaccinated. Yet Israel has a lower percentage of people who die from the flu? Which is about 560 if we multiply 40 x 14.

Flu Vaccine Coverage U.S.

Yes, Israel has a bit less than 40 times the population of the U.S., which is why I multiplied the amounts of deaths from the flu in Israel in 2018 which, was 13-14, by 40.

Population of the U.S. ~328 million

Population of Israel ~ 8,855,000 x 40 = 354,200,000

Israeli Medical Association rejects mandatory flu shots for doctors

The U.S. has a death rate from the flu of at the lowest 12,000 to at most 80,000 people each year. Yet Israel has a death rate from the flu of ~560 if we average the population of Israel to about 354 million.




edit on 9-3-2019 by ElectricUniverse because: correct comment and link.

edit on 9-3-2019 by ElectricUniverse because: add comment.



posted on Mar, 9 2019 @ 10:07 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse


Yet in Israel has a lower percentage of people who die from the flu?
Because death, of course, is the only possible problem with flu.




Which is about 560 if we multiply 40 x 14.
Why would you do that? 560 what?



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