Sen McSally says she was raped in the Air Force by a superior officer

a reply to: projectvxn

Props to you man.

We disagree sometimes, but even when we do I admire your position.

I don't know what we do with her case. I doubt I'll ever have a position on that as it will sadly be convoluted.

But I find it odd people are quick to dismiss a soldiers account just because they don't like it.

One indicator our society has an illness is our willingness to send the young to do our bidding, and our short sighted attention when they come home.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
But I find it odd people are quick to dismiss a soldiers account just because they don't like it.

I think her politics comes into play for some of those people as well.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
But I find it odd people are quick to dismiss a soldiers account just because they don't like it.

I think her politics comes into play for some of those people as well.

While critical of what the elite do, I know a vast majority of enlisted have good intentions.

It really irks me.... No, it pisses me the f### off that someone sacrifices everything only to come home to a neglected VA and unofficially told to read from the script or kick rocks.

These problems will erode us.

originally posted by: gort51
So....she continued on to a distinguished career in the USAF, even though this is suppose to have happened.

Or is this more "MeToo" bandwagon jumping?.

You know, rape is not only hiding the sausage in the bread roll, or driving the train into the tunnel.
It could be "Digital Rape", or Someone touching her accoutrements.

How do we not know that the tryst wasn't mutual at the time....you know, this was the time of "Top Gun" and "Officer and a gentlemen" Movies.

All This rubbish is a beatup, like saying someone stole my crayons in school, now you want to sue them (for millions of course).

If the incident was Sooooo horrible and life destroying at the time, she had an obligation to report it.

Seems it didnt affect her.....she went on to fly the need for speed machines, and leech onto the Government Gravy Train in politics.

A rape that doesn't leave your life destroyed is no big deal yea? No different than stealing crayons in school.

... and why wonder why woman don't come out and accuse men of rape when it first happens.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

There really are right and wrong answers in life. I don't pretend to have them all...or any of them, really. But I do make an honest attempt to find those right and wrong answers and live by their lessons.

I am not an objective person. I am biased, opinionated, and matter-of-fact. Not a lot of people like me. It doesn't really bother me that much. I DO try to back up my biased and opinionated matter-of-fact attitude with objective facts. I DO regularly stand corrected. I do regularly let my biases color my world view in erroneous ways. I work on it and try not to be so self-centered.

So many things I struggle with as a person, but I don't think recognizing right and wrong is a struggle for me. The military has a culture of silence surrounding real sexual assault. It ALSO has a culture of mistrust and the misuses of the tools given to fight sexual assault and harassment. They are often weaponized and used against people, wasting precious resources that could have gone to solving a real case and getting justice for a real victim.

The military has made many positive changes. But this isn't one of them. Much like our over all society, sex-related crimes aren't taken very seriously and are often buried in a system of CYA.

a reply to: projectvxn

When a son or daughter goes to their parents and say they're joining, many parents are faced with apprehension. In today's climate it would be hard to judge them for that.

But never should that stem from fear of our own country, whether it be neglect while in service or after.

If the very thing that safeguards our institutions is in dissaray, what does that say?

a reply to: CriticalStinker

The culture of the military is still "suck it up". It's deeply ingrained.

I don't believe anyone should have to just "suck up" being abused by people who are supposed to be there to ensure their safety.

The charge of military leaders is to care for their soldiers as if they were their own sons and daughters. This is NOT to mean "treat them like children". But treat them with care, respect, and with the understanding that you are in charge of this person's life.

Some "leaders" think sexual abuses can be overlooked and still be the best army in the world.

a reply to: projectvxn

Some "leaders" think sexual abuses can be overlooked and still be the best army in the world.

Not to absolve them, but the military as a whole has been overlooked as a whole.

We just can't do that and expect it to remain the very thing the world looked up to at one time.

We've been abandoning principles and become disconnected with how it all ties together.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

I'm sorry, but I don't think you understand. This has been going on for DECADES. It's nothing new. The ONLY new thing is the SHARP program and all it has achieved is to create apprehension in mixed-sex units. Reporting is STILL down, and often enough the SHARP reps are too close to the individuals who are involved.

Things get purposefully overlooked. The problem is that this is INGRAINED behavior in MOST units. It's not that it can't be fixed, it's that it won't be.

I say this, by the way, as a soldier who proudly served his country and his fellow soldiers. The Army has a serious problem. The DOD in general does.

a reply to: projectvxn

You have way more of an intimate knowledge than I do.

That said times have changes, as as a society don't accept brushing under sexual assault under the rug. I'm not saying the movement as a whole hasn't been plagued by corruption reaches those who find power... Just saying timed have changed.

But hasn't our approach to how we treat our current and former soldiers, male or female, taken a downward track?

a reply to: CriticalStinker

But hasn't our approach to how we treat our current and former soldiers, male or female, taken a downward track?

In general, soldiers have to be coddled more these days. There really are discipline problems in the army.

originally posted by: queenofswords
a reply to: Boadicea
Rape type #1 --- She is walking at night on base headed toward another building a hundred yards away. Another airman walking toward her stops her and engages in a conversation. Suddenly, he grabs her, and pulls her between buildings. He gets physically violent and perhaps puts a knife to her throat and proceeds to remove her clothes forcibly and rapes her.
Rape type #2 --- She and the airman have had a casual flirtatious relationship for a few days. They go out together and wind up in his apt. or her apt. or somewhere private and get romantic. As the situation gets heated, she begins to have mixed feelings, but continues. It reaches that do-or-don't point. She decides (perhaps after she is partially undressed) not to go any further, but, it does, and she either doesn't make herself understood clearly by forcibly halting his advances, or he ignores her resistance. If she does use force to halt his advance, then indeed it is rape. If she did not, is it really rape?

You are equating to peer socialising? In the forces there is no fratenising allowed

between ranks. Which makes it *power* play.


Look up Deaths at Deepcut army barracks - A British Army scandal similar situations

and including suicide's with a bullet in the back of the head, how does that happen?

The services are a law unto themselves.

originally posted by: Agit8dChop

But she didn't, right? she kept it quiet.

It took me 50 years and long after the death of the perpetrator to tell anyone

of the abuse I had been subjected to..... it still makes me feel sick.

Don't get me wrong, rape is haneous and that's why on the scale of horrid crimes it ranks 2nd behind murder.

I rank it worse than murder....... because you have to live with it for

the rest of your life!!!

Because it has such a high rating in society, the accusation of it or public inference of someone being guilty of it must only occur when there proof is there and the police are involved immediately.

The very nature of the crime doesn't allow for that. I doubt if this would

have come out without the #ME TOO campagne. Which has given 'victims'

the courage to accuse.

Too many times has a mans life been destroyed because a jilted lover or a scorned woman has decided to cry rape.. knowing full well he cant defend himself. Girls are super quick believing each other or closing ranks around each other and a mans reputation/life is destroyed no an accusation - no matter how suspicious.

On the contrary women are quick to pick up on the type of woman that does

that.

There should be a statute on rape accusations - 1 month.. if you believe you've been raped then you must report it in 28 days and be willing to go on the record and face your accuser in a police interview room.
Coming out years later has far too many loops holes, missed memories and destruction of evidence to prove it one way or another.. and its the man that suffers for ever..

Your very biased in your views of who suffers most in these cases?

Its the type of crime where it leaves the victim feeling dirty, and

humiliated and knowing she will be further humiliated in court

where she will get taken apart and made to feel that she had asked

for it.

originally posted by: queenofswords
www.foxnews.com...

Sen. Martha McSally, the first female fighter pilot to fly in combat, disclosed during an emotional Senate hearing on Wednesday she was "preyed upon and then raped" in the Air Force by a superior officer.

The Arizona Republican, who served 26 years in the Air Force, made the disclosure during a Senate hearing on sexual assault allegations in the military. McSally said she didn't report the assault because she didn't trust the system, and was ashamed and confused.

McSally did not name the officer

Somebody is quaking in his boots right about now (if he's still alive).

This happened to McSally many years ago. She served in the Air Force from 1988 to 2010.

It boggles my mind that someone who gets raped would choose not to report it at the time it happened. But, we are all different, I guess, in the way we respond to things. She felt at the time that she "could not trust the system and was ashamed and confused".

Should she reveal the person that raped her years ago?

What is the point of appearing before a senate hearing years later if you won't say Who, What, When, Where, Why?

If you're a senator, lead by example. Why the cover up? Put it out there if it happened. Oh! Hangon, she's a senator. Others would get ignored. She alleges rape and didn't report it. So this mongrel got away with it and raped how many more after Ms Sally. What an irresponsible stance to take for a senator. Name and Shame now else this person may still be getting away with it.

Or is there some other reason Ms Senator Sally?

I pity those she serves. She is letting the country down without fully disclosing the identity of a rapist.

What is happening over there with all these hearsay heroes?

bally (spit)

a reply to: queenofswords

No. She should have revealed it at the time. If it wasn't a big enough of a deal then, it shouldn't be politicized now.

originally posted by: queenofswords
www.foxnews.com...

Sen. Martha McSally, the first female fighter pilot to fly in combat, disclosed during an emotional Senate hearing on Wednesday she was "preyed upon and then raped" in the Air Force by a superior officer.

The Arizona Republican, who served 26 years in the Air Force, made the disclosure during a Senate hearing on sexual assault allegations in the military. McSally said she didn't report the assault because she didn't trust the system, and was ashamed and confused.

McSally did not name the officer

Somebody is quaking in his boots right about now (if he's still alive).

This happened to McSally many years ago. She served in the Air Force from 1988 to 2010.

It boggles my mind that someone who gets raped would choose not to report it at the time it happened. But, we are all different, I guess, in the way we respond to things. She felt at the time that she "could not trust the system and was ashamed and confused".

Should she reveal the person that raped her years ago?

Well, she is bringing to light now the fact that there were, and probably still are, sexual predators and abusers of power in the military. Let's hope that someone with greater power has the fortitude to flush out these abusers and screen those that reach for power over others.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: CriticalStinker

But hasn't our approach to how we treat our current and former soldiers, male or female, taken a downward track?

In general, soldiers have to be coddled more these days. There really are discipline problems in the army.

I don't doubt that for a second. Me and you are both part of a generation we're willing to say has problems, especially self discipline and determination problems.

I don't doubt she was assaulted but since she is in congress now, I would prefer she start with tackling things like the tax payer funded slush fund to cover up sexual assault and harassment by members of congress, start cleaning the problem from the top down and it will have a much bigger effect than chasing the low hanging fruit in DoD.

To be clear, clean up congress and then DoD will have no where to hide... but I will wager she will go after DoD cause for the most part it will be low hanging fruit in comparison to taking on other more senior members of congress.

a reply to: queenofswords

Attention seeking politician, I don't believe her.

ya know what...
anyone running for a congressional office that I would have a vote in would have a little bit of an edge if they had served in the armed forces, more of an edge that is they had a D or an R beside their name!
I really believe that it is a good thing to have people who have that experience, and the perspective that comes with it involved in the policy making. So here we have a women who has this unique experience sitting in congress. She not only understand the culture that has been ingrained in the forces throughout the years, but also the experience of feeling that the system that was present wasn't gonna serve her well. I imagine that this may have caused her to look at the issue a little more closely, think a little more deeper about just what the flaws were in the 80's, what have been done to make things better, what has worked, as well as what has made things maybe worse.. and what can still be addressed much more than all those aged men have.
she hasn't revealed any names and I really doubt if she will, it would only serve as a giant distraction from the goal while offering so little in return. she has open up the way where she can talk frankly about the event, about the flaws that were present, and what measures she sees as maybe possible to address those flaws that still need solutions.