Trump to sign EO for free speech on colleges / universities that receive federal funding .

a reply to: argentus

For what it's worth Argentus - I agree with you. I'm not afraid to hear what other people are thinking. Not even what they're demanding. No matter how hateful or ugly. It's this freedom that protects all of us

Until we start to compartmentalize

What I worry about is a president creating an executive order that forces private institutions to do something they don't want to do - violating their freedom of expression

We just had the Supreme Court uphold a baker's right to refuse to provide someone he doesn't like with a cake. Where do we split the difference between who has the right to refuse - and who doesn't? It's beginning to feel like it all begins to lean in one direction

In any case - Trump might be setting himself up for a world of trouble. I don't think he thought of all the angles on this one

ETA:

I will, however, pull up short of an outcry to "silence anyone who doesn't endorse freedom of speech".

irony rocks

It does :-)

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

I think it's fairly obvious that the President hasn't thought out all the angles, in that he doesn't seem to roll that way. However, he seems to have fairly acute intuitions in some cases.

I don't think that institutions can have freedoms that trump (pun intended) the law. I also attended UC Berkeley (yeah, I got around), and that was a hotbed of protest and angst and philosophical performances. What it did not do (at least nearly 40 years ago) was suppress various groups who wanted to make a noise. They also didn't create safety zones to keep edgy people from getting their asses kicked; that tended to cut down on racist groups, which was fine with everyone.

I support the Baker's right to refuse service. If I lived in that town, I would make it clear that I was boycotting that business, but not encourage others to do so. The business has the right to refuse service. I believe their right espouses a prejudice and is therefore unsavory. The business has the right to choose their customers. I have the right to object, and to say mean things about them on the internet, as long as those things aren't libelous.

I think every business has the right to refuse customers. They also have the right to be boycotted by people who think they are FOS. A public entity that draws on federal or state funds has less of a right of self-determination, imo. I get what you're saying. I wonder what the various universitity's view might be if their choice was between complete self-determination and continued funding.

Yes, I think it's that important, especially in these charged times where money equals influence.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

People always say that like you're supposed to be impressed

People who consider history useless usually have no idea what they are talking about.

So literal. No wonder we have problems communicating

[ simply say what I mean and mean what I say. Perhaps if you stopped inserting what isn't there, it might help?

I think you don't know what a president is - except that when he's your guy he should be able to do whatever he wants. Like a king

Within the powers granted him by the office, yes he should. Unfortunately, there are so many people (like you) who have abandoned all reason that even if he were to do something wrong, no one would believe them. If Trump has any special abilities he should not, it is thanks to you.

Maintaining compliance? Whatever

Are they also required to give up their 1st amendment rights?

Well, I suppose that answers my question: you do not care about the exact same issue unless it applies to colleges (or perhaps because you are still trying to suppress voters because Trump wasn't your choice).

And this about requiring 1st Amendment compliance, not giving it up. Need a compass? You seem lost.

Congratulations! You just found another butt-hurt wanna-be journalist who has the same opinion you do. Here's your participation trophy:


TheRedneck

a reply to: argentus

I wonder what the various universitity's view might be if their choice was between complete self-determination and continued funding.

I wonder the exact same thing. Depending on how far this goes I think we might see who is willing to put their money where their mouth is

As it were

a reply to: argentus

I support the Baker's right to refuse service. If I lived in that town, I would make it clear that I was boycotting that business, but not encourage others to do so. The business has the right to refuse service. I believe their right espouses a prejudice and is therefore unsavory. The business has the right to choose their customers. I have the right to object, and to say mean things about them on the internet, as long as those things aren't libelous.

That is the crux of free speech.

If I lived in that town, I would not boycott the baker... and I would not say you don't have every right to boycott him. We are a large nation with over 300,000,000 opinions, and likely no two are exactly the same. As long as we are free to speak (and thus to hear) opinions, we can progress together. Once we start cutting off those opinions from being heard, we lose our sense of oneness, by rejecting that which is a part of us.

Political correctness and limits on speech are destroying us from the inside. If we cannot speak freely, we cannot communicate effectively. If we cannot communicate effectively, we cannot understand each other. If we cannot understand each other, we cannot live with each other in peace. If we cannot live with each other in peace, we are at war with ourselves... exactly what the Deep State wants.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

People who consider history useless usually have no idea what they are talking about.

I was speaking to the assumption that only some people pay any attention to history, or understand what it can teach us. Our country was founded on the idea that we wouldn't be subject to the whims of one leader. I suppose you were all in favor of previous (ahem) presidents using executive powers to accomplish their goals?

I simply say what I mean and mean what I say. Perhaps if you stopped inserting what isn't there, it might help?

What I mean to say when referring to our wannabe king is that he behaves like one. If he wanted to govern - there are ways he could have done this so that it was less about him and more about us. It's not as if this hasn't been a topic for discussion - even among liberals

I'm not sure I understand your anger in the rest of your post. How am I trying to suppress your vote? Am I supposed to like everything Trump does - in order for your vote to have meaning?

He won (stay tuned) - but I can't support this president. It's unrealistic of you to expect me to respect him just because you do

Congratulations! You just found another butt-hurt wanna-be journalist who has the same opinion you do. Here's your participation trophy:

See how you are?

:-)

night then Red - I am out of here

a reply to: theAWfuLWaFFLe

Oh gosh yes.

Do you expect you will see those stories on left leaning media?

Typically, a freedom oriented organizations lawyers will help the parents/kids... but yeah, it happens a lot.

If you don't follow conservative media, it is unlikely you will see it.

These kinds of stories hit the news wires... but media outlets decide what stories to pick up and what stories to pass on... and yes, their bias left/right influences what wire stories they will run.

a reply to: Fallingdown

It was about time. But hey the left will come up with some claim on how Trump is evil right?...

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

I was speaking to the assumption that only some people pay any attention to history, or understand what it can teach us. Our country was founded on the idea that we wouldn't be subject to the whims of one leader. I suppose you were all in favor of previous (ahem) presidents using executive powers to accomplish their goals?

That was your assumption, not mine. The President, any President, has his hands tied by the Constitution and the legislature. That said, nothing in this Executive Order violates either.

As to whether I supported past Presidents, sometimes yes, sometimes no. I can remember only one time, though, where I felt the President was abusing the Executive Order, and that was not Donald Trump; it was Barack Obama on the DACA issue. I actually want to see DACA continue, but it is not within the President's domain to formally decide not to enforce a law properly passed by Congress.

Every other time, and that includes 2 other Democrat Presidents, I at least accepted that this lies within the powers of the President.

What I mean to say when referring to our wannabe king is that he behaves like one. If he wanted to govern - there are ways he could have done this so that it was less about him and more about us. It's not as if this hasn't been a topic for discussion - even among liberals

So he didn't do this the way you wanted him to... in what universe does the President take orders from you? I want to come live there, at least for a few minutes so I can see what a cluster it is with the President following 300 million orders from 300 million 'bosses.'

If you are referring to legislation, have you even looked at Congress lately? They can't even pass a budget! Congress right now is the most impotent exercise in idiocracy that I have seen to date (and that's saying something). Nancy Pelosi has a one-word vocabulary and that word is "no." Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is running around screaming about corruption while breaking FEC regulations, trying to rid the world of airplanes while traveling on them, demanding everyone ride trains instead while she refuses to do so, and wanting people to stop eating beef while watching her own staff members wolfing down a juicy hamburger. Ilhad Omar is using the floor of the United States House of Representatives as a platform to proclaim her anti-Semitism. Eric Swalwell wants to nuke America to get rid of guns. Hank Johnson thinks Guam is going to tip over and capsize. Mad Maxine Waters, not one to be outdone, is calling for her supporters to physically attack people, and Fredericka Wilson, for once, can't seem to get a word in edgewise! That is a three-ring circus that would make the corpse of P. T. Barnum turn green with envy!

Get your party under control and maybe they can participate. Until then, nothing is going to work unless Trump and maybe the Senate can get it done alone. We're not doing crazy. Doing nothing is preferable.

I'm not sure I understand your anger in the rest of your post. How am I trying to suppress your vote? Am I supposed to like everything Trump does - in order for your vote to have meaning?

Of course you don't understand. It's hard to understand when one doesn't listen.

I keep hearing people complaining how oppressive it is to simply ask for ID when voting, but then these exact same people want desperately to overturn a free election where they don't like who won. That is disenfranchisement... it's like saying "sure, you can vote, but you'd better vote for the right guy or we're just going to kick him out and put in who we want." No. You don't get to decide on your own who gets to be President. By damnation, I get to have my little one vote say just as much as you do! You talk about someone wanting to be a king, and then in the same breath proclaim yourself ruler of who gets to be in elected office?

You want Trump out of office? Vote him out. if you can't vote him out, you're just screwed. Anything else is a coup de'tat and anyone who tries it, a traitor.

I do not expect anyone, you included, to agree with any President; even I don't always agree with Trump. But I do expect you... no, I DEMAND you support the rights of the people to elect who they choose. I expect you to respect the office of the President whether you like the man occupying it or not. I expect you to support the United States of America, or find a country you prefer.

I'm sorry, but people been stepping on that damn nerve since November 2016. Enough. You've whined and lied and and griped and cried and yelled at the sky for over two years now. Just come out and say you want the United States to fall because you didn't get your poor widdle way and you got your poor widdle feewings hurted. At least be freakin' honest about it.

You're damn right that crap makes me angry. And if a Democrat ever steps one foot inside the White House again (unlikely IMO after all this crap), expect me to feel free to treat them as badly as you treat our present President... or worse.

TheRedneck

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Lol

Read the thread there’s a lot of smart people on it trying .

It’s just not working out very well .

It should be a cakewalk with with liberal leaders like Nancy, AOC, crying Chuck and Mad Max. Because they aren’t half as intelligent . 😃

WTF.

The First protects us from the government, not each other.

You know what, everybody's a spineless thin-skinned puss nowadays. Absolutely everybody, when THAT one gets trampled by & used by a president as a strong-arm tactic.


Patriots you are all decidedly not.

a reply to: TheRedneck

You want Trump out of office? Vote him out. if you can't vote him out, you're just screwed. Anything else is a coup de'tat and anyone who tries it, a traitor.

And there it is

It would be easy to say you bought a pig in a poke - but that poke was see through. Trump is not what you thought he was

We find ourselves in a cold civil war then - so long as our thinking is along these lines

I fear the worst, but still hope for the best. I only hope our better angels will see us through

I am loath to close. We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory, stretching from every battlefield and patriot grave to every living heart and hearthstone all over this broad land, will yet swell the chorus of the Union, when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.

It's not as purty as something the Donald would say - of course. But, it will have to do

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: TheRedneck



He behaves like a king - ruling by decree. Congress owns the purse. Or they used to...

Well by that logic, Obama was our first king. How do you reconcile that?

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: TheRedneck

I have studied history.

People always say that like you're supposed to be impressed

You do not know what a king is.

So literal. No wonder we have problems communicating

I think you don't know what a president is - except that when he's your guy he should be able to do whatever he wants. Like a king

Any contractor who is awarded a contract for the government is also required to follow certain government policies in hiring and personnel management, such as maintaining EEOC compliance and providing benefits to employees.

Maintaining compliance? Whatever

Are they also required to give up their 1st amendment rights?

What I do not support is asking the government to fund it.

Trump's Free-Speech Executive Order: Oh, The Ironies

Third among the ironies is that while First Amendment protection is binding on public colleges, it does not equally apply to private institutions. Nonetheless, most private colleges profess to be bastions of free speech, promising staff and students that freedom of expression will be protected.

Also:

The second irony is the notion that Donald Trump is a defender of free speech. As to the president’s record on the First Amendment, recall that he:

Called the New York Times “a true ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE;”

Threatened the press credentials of reporters who criticize him;

Tweeted “With all of the Fake News coming out of NBC and the Networks, at what point is it appropriate to challenge their license? Bad for country!”

Demanded that NFL owners fire players who protested during the playing of the national anthem;

Ranted that it was “disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write and people should look into it.”

Blocked critics from following his Twitter account.

He's a liar and a hypocrite. I know you feel the need to defend whatever our mad king desires or does. But, everyone can see this for what it is

You're trying (and failing) to argue against ensured free speech for all. How on earth can you hope to defend that position?

a reply to: Fallingdown

I mean why not have Net neutrality too? We have an online dictatorship for Net Neutrality being allowed. I campaigned a free speech. In mind. Online communications as well as public should be legal.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

And there it is

It would be easy to say you bought a pig in a poke - but that poke was see through. Trump is not what you thought he was

Actually, Trump is turning out to be exactly what I expected. Exactly. Both good and bad. I will vote for him again, barring something unthinkable.

No, we are not enemies... we are opponents... today. Tomorrow we may be allies. This is not about personal feelings, at least not for me. It's rather about disrespect for the office and for my (and million of others') choice for office. I;m sorry you cannot see that, because it is that respect for others (or lack thereof) that has brought us as a nation to this new low. It doesn't matter who started it; both sides must stop it.

If you will follow my posting history, you will see there are two things that really get under my skin: hypocrisy, and intellectual dishonesty. The latter is the worst for me, because it is nothing more than a complete disrespect for anyone else. The fact that Trump has brought this out was predicted by me back in 2016. My exact statement was "If Trump gets elected, it will be the best decision and the most painful decision the United States has made in my lifetime." Best in the sense that the economy is booming, unemployment is dropping, labor participation is growing, and we are establishing better treaties with other nations. More painful in the sense that people have gone to the lengths and extremes you exhibit in this thread to attack others over a simple personality disagreement.

President Trump don't talk purty... that's actually one thing I like about him. I know what he's saying without translating it.

TheRedneck