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Dictator claims he didn't know of torture; President states "I will take him at his word"

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posted on Mar, 4 2019 @ 09:34 AM
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Never in a million years would I have ever thought this would ever be a topic. But yet, with Trump as president many of the pillars of American society that have stood for decades fall on a regular basis.

Otto Warmbier was accused by North Korea of attempting to steal a propaganda slogan from a hotel. Shortly after his arrest, he was ushered out for a sham proceeding before the North Korean media. During this media appearance he is visibly upset, crying almost from the beginning. He even says that he is sorry for being indoctrinated by the United States to commit this crime. This is obviously an attempt by the Kim regime to paint the United States as an evil regime that indoctrinates young men to steal propaganda slogans from the great state of North Korea.[1] (This link includes a video of Warmbier pleading for his life)

Trump often criticized Obama for being weak on a national stage. During the 2016 campaign, he often stated that he and he alone would be tough enough to handle the presidency. Well, fast forward to after the first Kim-Trump summit. Instead of being tough on a dictator whose regime paraded an American citizen in grief for political purposes and then torture him to death, Trump fell in love with the said dictator.[2]


“He wrote me beautiful letters,” Mr. Trump said at a rally in September. “And they’re great letters. We fell in love.


Just the other day when questioned about whether he thinks Kim is responsible for the torture and death of Otto Warmbier. This was his response:


“I don’t believe that he would have allowed that to happen; it just wasn’t to his advantage to allow that to happen,” Mr. Trump said afterward. “Those prisons are rough — they’re rough places — and bad things happened. But I really don’t believe that he — I don’t believe that he knew about it.”

“He tells me that he didn’t know about it,” Mr. Trump also said, “and I will take him at his word.”


So, did Kim know about Warmbier and his treatment? According to the Intel community, of course, he did because Warmbier was used as a political pawn against the United States.[3]


The judge pointed out that four days after Warmbier’s detention at the Pyongyang airport, North Korea claimed to have tested its first hydrogen bomb. A few days later, after Congress passed new sanctions on North Korea, that government released Warmbier’s “confession." The trial and sentencing occurred one day after President Barack Obama signed an executive order imposing sanctions on North Korea.

Howell wrote that North Korea took its actions with Warmbier “to gain leverage as North Korea engaged in highly publicized nuclear and long-range missile tests and the United States developed its North Korea sanctions policy.”

The judge’s ruling noted the naked quid pro quo at work: “The State Department cautioned the Warmbiers against speaking to media outlets or publicly about Otto’s detention because North Korea was “going to want something for Otto,” and the more the family spoke publicly, “the more it was going to cost.”


It is quite obvious that since the Kim regime used Otto as a pawn anytime the US made moves against it proves that Kim was well aware of Otto and his treatment. So, this leaves us with a few questions: Has any previous president treated a dictator with kid gloves and Have we as a country gained anything from this behaviour?

Have any previous presidents treated dictators how Trump handles Kim?

No.

How did Reagan handle the Soviet Union? Prior to the USSR making real changes was Reagan buddy buddy with Gorbachev?[4]


Reagan escalated the Cold War with the Soviet Union, marking a departure from the policy of détente by his predecessors, Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, and Jimmy Carter. The Reagan Administration implemented a new policy towards the Soviet Union through NSDD-32 (National Security Decisions Directive) to confront the USSR on three fronts: to decrease Soviet access to high technology and diminish their resources, including depressing the value of Soviet commodities on the world market; to (also) increase American defense expenditures to strengthen the U.S. negotiating position; and to force the Soviets to devote more of their economic resources to defense. The massive American military build-up was the most visible.

Reagan supported anti-communist groups around the world. In a policy known as the "Reagan Doctrine," his presidency funded "freedom fighters," such as the Contras in Nicaragua, the Mujahideen in Afghanistan, and the UNITA in Angola. During the Soviet-Afghan War, Reagan deployed the CIA's Special Activities Division (SAD) Paramilitary Officers to train, equip, and lead the Mujihadeen forces against the Soviet Army.[4][5] Although the CIA (in general) and U.S. Congressman Charlie Wilson from Texas have received most of the attention, the key architect of this strategy was Michael G. Vickers, a young Paramilitary Officer.[6] President Reagan's Covert Action program has been given credit for assisting in ending the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan.[7][8] When the Polish government suppressed the Solidarity movement in late 1981, Reagan imposed economic sanctions on the People's Republic of Poland.


Have we as a country gained anything from this behavior?

The answer to dictators is to be tough. They think anything else is a show of weakness. Kim Jong Un is walking all over Trump. He is completely happy to enjoy the loosened sanctions. He loves the legitimacy that Trump has given him by meeting with him as an equal. He is ecstatic that the US is no longer performing military exercises with South Korea. What does America have in return? The only tangible benefit is that North Korea has stopped testing missiles. They have continued to make nuclear bombs and have continued their work on improving their ICBM's. [5]

So in short, we have given up a lot and gotten little in return.

In conclusion, this is just the latest incident in which our president sides with a dictator over American intelligence and American values. Its odd that I have to even state this, but it is possible to disagree with an action of a president you still support for other reasons. Regardless of whether you support Trump for other reasons it should be obvious that he has made poor decisions when it comes to North Korea. He believes that he can just be friends with Kim and fix everything.

[1] US student begs for mercy in front of North Korean media - video
[2] The Pen Proves Mighty for an Unlikely Trump Correspondent
[3] Five things we learned from the Warmbiers’ court victory over North Korea
[4] Foreign policy of the Ronald Reagan administration
[5] North Korea continues to develop its intercontinental ballistic missiles.




posted on Mar, 4 2019 @ 09:42 AM
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so you want more sanctions and another war?



posted on Mar, 4 2019 @ 09:42 AM
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This is really getting nuts, and people will still be lining up to defend him...



posted on Mar, 4 2019 @ 09:43 AM
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originally posted by: Dr UAE
so you want more sanctions and another war?


The war never ended.



posted on Mar, 4 2019 @ 09:45 AM
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a reply to: BlackJackal

Tell us what Trump should have done ?

Create more useless sanctions?

Say mean things to him?

WHAT should Trump have done ?



posted on Mar, 4 2019 @ 09:49 AM
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a reply to: BlackJackal

Plausible deniability. It's how it's done in the community :-) My CO laid out the rules of engagement and information gathering. He just wanted the job done and at arms length to him, he didn't want to know how the info was extracted, just that it was and it was reliable. Unless my CO did the "work" himself, he wouldn't know who did what. So did Kim "know"? I'd say he might have or might not have, we may never know for sure.

Cheers - Dave



posted on Mar, 4 2019 @ 09:52 AM
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Considering what Johnson did during Vietnam.

CLinton/Gore did.

And GWB.

The US isn't the best person to be lecturing others about torture.



posted on Mar, 4 2019 @ 09:54 AM
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a reply to: BlackJackal




with Trump as president many of the pillars of American society that have stood for decades fall on a regular basis.


Everyday there are folks who say the same thing and continue to wonder why they are not taken seriously.




In conclusion, this is just the latest incident in which our president sides with a dictator over American intelligence and American values.


So now we trust the intel community holds the American people as its priority?

I repeat;
Everyday there are folks who say the same thing and continue to wonder why they are not taken seriously.



posted on Mar, 4 2019 @ 09:54 AM
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Another horrible nightmare unfolding 😀



posted on Mar, 4 2019 @ 09:55 AM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
Another horrible nightmare unfolding 😀


They're mad Trump didn't blow up the world.




posted on Mar, 4 2019 @ 09:57 AM
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WooHoo! I knew it was you before I clicked.

Here's the thing with the military; they do things. The little peons are doing whatever they are told to do by their supervisor/ranking officer. They, in turn, answer to someone else...... so on and so forth.

We had our own issues with our shady little prison - did our presidents know what was going on there prior to everything being blown out of the water with journalists? No, they didn't... (or at least they claimed they didn't).

How about them there black sites in and around Chicago that were uncovered not too recently? Do you think the president, or even most of Congress, knew about that going on and what happened there? No, they didn't.

Everyone answers to someone in the long game of "Telephone", eventually, the message stops being passed along.

You seem to spend so much energy looking for different ways to attack anyone or thing that isn't left-leaning, you seem to overlook a lot of practical, common sense information that comes pretty clearly if you just repeat your own question/statement out loud, slowly.
edit on 4-3-2019 by dothedew because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2019 @ 09:58 AM
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Trump will get the agreement with NK he wants. Democrats can't stand that possibility, it terrifies them.

Trump has to take Kim's word, be respectful and somewhat complementary with dear leader if he wants to keep him engaged in substantive negotiations, and he will.

The art of the deal is a winning strategy.




posted on Mar, 4 2019 @ 10:01 AM
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I guess Trump had 2 choices, condem kim on it, or "take his word" on it. Either risk a set back on relations possibly moving forward or taking a step or two back.

I'd imagine Trump knows it's bullcrap, but he took the path of diplomacy. I'm not sure it was the best thing to do, but something has to be done to end the tensions. A war and conflict will benefit neither nation.

And honestly, if Trump would have gone completely the other way on it, this thread would still exist bashing him on that decision.
edit on 3 4 2019 by caterpillage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2019 @ 10:03 AM
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a reply to: BlackJackal

Trump needs to learn the words "i dont know" and "no comment".
His honesty is abrasive to some.
He is still a far better option than the dnc candidate he defeated.



posted on Mar, 4 2019 @ 10:04 AM
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North Korea's internal policies should be irrelevant in diplomacy with them.

The job of the west is not to police the world.



posted on Mar, 4 2019 @ 10:05 AM
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a reply to: caterpillage

You mean that trump didnt publicly insult the guy hes trying to negotiate a deal with?

Its almost like hes negotiated deals with powerful people before.



posted on Mar, 4 2019 @ 10:06 AM
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originally posted by: Ohanka
North Korea's internal policies should be irrelevant in diplomacy with them.

The job of the west is not to police the world.


Yeah, it's not like he gave a crap ton of cash to iran while they still stone women for adultery.



posted on Mar, 4 2019 @ 10:07 AM
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originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: Ohanka
North Korea's internal policies should be irrelevant in diplomacy with them.

The job of the west is not to police the world.


Yeah, it's not like he gave a crap ton of cash to iran while they still stone women for adultery.


Not this fiction again.

That money was Iran's to begin with and was frozen following the 1979 revolution.



posted on Mar, 4 2019 @ 10:11 AM
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Strategy Strategy 😎



posted on Mar, 4 2019 @ 10:14 AM
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a reply to: BlackJackal

The finger-wagging of your previous leaders was all for show. It was to keep those hungry for war and sanctions like yourself satiated, nothing more.







 
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