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Evolution hoax exposed

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posted on Feb, 7 2006 @ 10:16 AM
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Originally posted by unmarked01
Myself, I am less religious and more spiritual and I am saddened by the amount of bickering on this topic. I have noticed that this statement tends to offend but: it is hard for me to believe that all of this (microcosms, ecosystems, infinite cosmos, et al.) and all of the beautiful and powerful things that surround us just "happened". I struggle I imagine, with that like the people who believe in evolution struggle with someone like me who sees a certain artistry behind the whole interworkings of life, and how we are in the precise place in the solar system to have abundant life of many different varieties; how there are many simple atoms and molecules that arranged themselves in a way which not only would sustain the majority of life on this little planet (h2o) in 'relative abundance', yet be so valuable because there is no way (I could be mistaken here, I never claimed to be a scientist) to reproduce it (I know you can seperate it into seperate molecules, but can it be synthetically be produced by human hands? I don't think so.); and how there is a way that a child can so eloquently explain complicated matters without prior knowledge or life experience. To me it's self evident, esoteric and divine.


Evolutionists have their own god as I see it, but it does not love them.


On a side note...

Did you ever notice that people who don't believe in God or ID, are the ones who usually say things like "God Damned this, or Jesus Christ did you see such and such? That just seems odd to me. I dunno maybe it's just me.

Peace (eM)


p.s. FLAME ON!!! (I know it's coming!)


p.p.s. TruthSeeka: love the sig's. Those are hilarious and yet disturbingly depressing at the same time.


[edit on 7-2-2006 by unmarked01]


Well, I disagree with your notion that people who support evolution miss the complex web of life.

IMO, if you follow evolution that naturally comes to you. Think about it. There is a nearly universal genetic code, and vertebrates show a striking similarity through homology. Hell, there's even homology in genes between invertebrates and vertebrates. This clearly shows that all life on Earth is connected, and that all extant organisms have a common ancestor.

See, it's probably quite similar to your beliefs. The thing is, evolution gets a bad rap. It says NOTHING about how life got here, it only says what happens to life after it's here. See, I believe in God, but you just can't bring God into science. Science doesn't work that way; that's for philosophy or theology.

As for God damn, I do say that one a lot.
I never say Jesus Christ, though. Hmmm, that's kinda ironic; I reference the deity and not the human.


Oh, yeah, thanks for digging the sigs. It's funny cause it's true.




posted on Feb, 7 2006 @ 12:40 PM
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First off I am not going to change my mind and i do not expect yours to change either. debate is good
Theory is backed by evidence, so far it is all circumstantial evidence supporting evolution. In a court of law is that enough to convict? sometimes yes sometimes no. I agree that science is good, but not always right, ie.. aether theory, the first dinosaur skeleton. How long did these stand as Fact?
Now onto the theory of religion. Ask a University researcher how likely it would be to get a grant to prove or disprove creationism or any mainstream religious text. I can tell you, it is slim to none.
As far as missing the point, Firstly which parts are true without a doubt have been duplicated by peers? And for the second part of your sentance; that does not make it all TRUE either.
SyPy if we put as much research and time and money into creationism isnt it possible that there could be just as much evidence for as against creationism?
Now on to produckt, firstly if you want to make this a personal thing I will gladly do so. If not then you need to refrian from personal attacks.
If you want to nit pick numbers then a 5% differance is 300,000,000 differances between our genomes and Chimps how close does that make us as cousins?
Common ancestry. DNA is the building block of all life. All life has DNA. Yes? OK then we are bound to share some common strings of dna with all life. There are only so many ways to combine the 4 chemicals that make up dna. It is just like building strutures they all share mostly the same building material but it can be combined in numerous different ways to create different things. Just because a bridge and a dog house were built with the same material does that mean that they had a common ancester?
Need I remind you also that not everything science has said has been right also. Was the sound barrier truly unbreakable, did the atmosphere get ripped apart during the atomic bomb tests?



posted on Feb, 7 2006 @ 01:03 PM
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I believe I've already admited/stated science doesn't claim to have all the answer's and get's it wrong sometime's. Does this make everying about science bad? No. Where as, most thing's in religion have been proven as false, and nothing as true.

There is no evidence or proof for a divine creator. There is evidence and proof however for, evolution, big bang, physics, etc. The list goes on and on, despite all of science's miscalculation's and theories. Religion has not one single thing to show and back up it's belief's. Science does.




Just because a bridge and a dog house were built with the same material does that mean that they had a common ancester?


Can I ask what material each is being made of? If wood, it's common ancestor would be, obviously, the tree. If metal, it's common ancestor would be metal bearing ore's. If plastic, it's common.. etc.

Could you please point out where I personally attacked you. I'm well interested in seeing this, as I reread my post and actually failed to find it.




If you want to nit pick numbers then a 5% differance is 300,000,000 differances between our genomes and Chimps how close does that make us as cousins?


Could you please post where your getting your number's from so I could check them myself. I mean, the genetic difference's between chimps and humans is interesting nonetheless. 95%, that's pretty damn close. That's not just some number pulled out of an oraguntain's arse either, that's just plain old proven genetic's, that geneticist fully comprehend and practice on a daily basis. It doesn't matter if you don't understand the process, or if you fail to comprehend any of it. You can't change the fact that they've discovered, what they've discovered using proven method's to discover these thing's. If you were truely concerned and wanted undeniable proof against it, you could learn about it on your own, experiment upon it, and try to disprove it with your own studies. Even if it lead's to failure!

Now, while I've never actually performed these same experiment's nor tested these theories myself, I'm more then confident in the result's discovered so far. 95% exactness. Look at a chimp and look at a human standing side by side. They are very very close. Yet, some people are still stuck in primitive, barbaric, superstition based mindset's as to think we didn't evolve from a common ancestor despite all evidence showing otherwise.



posted on Feb, 7 2006 @ 03:46 PM
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Ok, lets assume that there is only circumstantial evidence for Evolution, there’s more but for the sake of this argument let just assume that. Now, what evidence is there for ID or God? That's right there isn't any, ID or god isn't even a theory it’s a belief!

[edit on 7-2-2006 by WestPoint23]



posted on Feb, 7 2006 @ 03:56 PM
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Produckt, you state that most things in religion have been proven false Please expand that with a few examples and I am talking modern day examples please not the earth is flat. That was a different time period and I would like to compare apples to apples. ( alchemy was science at that time).

You keep grouping physics withe evolution and the big bang. Physics is Facts and can be repeatable. Evolution and big bang cannot be duplicated in a controled environment. Please show me one piece of or publication that can reproduce either one or claim to have. Evolution has not been observed directly only by circumstatial evidence. Big Bang is the same way the cosmic background radiation only proves that the mathmatical model was right in that respect and that statistically the model holds up in that area.

Agreed that a common ancester couuld be the tree but how closely related are the dog house and bridge? Douse that make them an evolution of each other. Point bieng when you have only a few choices of materials to build with then of course there is going to be some similarities of what they are made out of and how they are constructed.

Personal attacks. When changed the tone and started using the word you and asking if I had a belief in Rain Gods and such. It comes across personally.

Numbers. I used the 99% from a post in this tread that was thrown out there by someone. The 95% was by your post of course. The 6billion cam from www.madsci.com. 6000000000 X 0.95= 300000000. The reason ibroke this down is because a lot of people start yelling that we share 95% of our dna with chimps without understanding how big a 5% difference really is. It would be a much more closer relationship if we only had 100 base pairs. A variation of 5% then would only mean % base pairs difference not 300000000.

Look at a chimp and lokk at a human and they are pretty close, Hummmm
Look at a supsention bridge and a draw bridge, very close. Yet some people are still stuck in their arrogant, immature, and self delusional mindset that they cannot see the differance between the two despite everyone trying to point them.



posted on Feb, 7 2006 @ 04:01 PM
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Westpoint 23 was there not a flood of biblical proportions recorded in the rock strata? Not tryng to change your mind just pointing out possiblities. And if you ar truly at west point and graduate the first thing that you will learn in combat is that there is a god and the second is, there are no atheist once the shooting starts.
Hoo AH.


[edit on 7-2-2006 by ultralo1]



posted on Feb, 7 2006 @ 04:23 PM
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Exactly what of religion do you want me to discuss. Pick a topic.


The big bang relies upon physics. Evolution hasn't been observed directly, and with good reason. Evolution isn't a wham bam thank you ma'am event. It doesn't just happen overnight. It's a process drawn out over hundred's of thousand/million's of year's. There is very strong evidence for evolution. You can choose to accept it or not, it'll continue occuring well after your dead. No one has recreated the exact event that lead to the creation of the universe, again, with good reason. Not only can we not currently contain that much energy, but to release it for experimental reason's of trying to recreate the even would lead to our destruction, granted if we could even produce that kind of energy and force. Our current model's are based upon the law's of physic's we've discovered over the course of thousand's of year's of human civilization. Thank's to our understanding of physic's, we now enjoy many advance's in technology we would otherwise not have. If we were wrong about our model of physics, you wouldn't be sitting at your computer to knock it down.



Agreed that a common ancester couuld be the tree but how closely related are the dog house and bridge? Douse that make them an evolution of each other.


An interesting, if not twisted way to look at it. The probability of a house and a bridge occuring naturally is nearly impossible. It *could* happen, but most likely wouldn't. There would be no evolutionary path that lead a tree to become a house or a bridge. The obvious common ancestor would still be the tree nonetheless, but the design isn't natural of itself. I'm sure this is where you'd chime in and use this against evolution itself.

As I noted, a house or bridge occuring naturally, as we build them, might be improbable, but still not impossible. The case for evolution, thanks to our understanding of physic's, we know atom's naturally join together to create molecule's, molecule's join to creat protien's, amino acid's etc. These then join to create primitive forms of dna, rna. These slowly change over time an reproduce themselve's, furthur, over time, simple life forms evolve from this
lifeless chemical reaction. These simple orginism's reproduce, change more over time, leading to more and more complex checmical reaction's that lead to me and you today discussing this.




Look at a supsention bridge and a draw bridge, very close. Yet some people are still stuck in their arrogant, immature, and self delusional mindset that they cannot see the differance between the two despite everyone trying to point them.


Actually, the suspension bridge and draw bridge, would in an evolutionary sense, have a common ancestor. There was a first bridge designed by man at some point in time. The first bridge could even have been a fallen tree! I'm sure I'm just being arrogant and immature for pointing out how the two really aren't that different after all. As for the number's, I'm not much of a mathmatician, but either way its sliced, number wise, it's still a 95% difference. We still look very similar to another species of primate that also held a common ancestor to man.



posted on Feb, 7 2006 @ 04:26 PM
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Originally posted by ultralo1
Westpoint 23 was there not a flood of biblical proportions recorded in the rock strata? Not tryng to change your mind just pointing out possiblities. And if you ar truly at west point and graduate the first thing that you will learn in combat is that there is a god and the second is, there are no atheist once the shooting starts.
Hoo AH.


[edit on 7-2-2006 by ultralo1]


Was there proof of a global flood of biblical proportion's? No. Was there a flood as described in the bible, locally to the area's pertaining to the bible, yes. Are there any other tale's of such a flood in other culture's? Yes, and they predate the bible. You learn there's a god? What is it that you learn that leave's no undeniability that a god exist's.



posted on Feb, 7 2006 @ 05:10 PM
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Westpoint 23 was there not a flood of biblical proportions recorded in the rock strata? Not tryng to change your mind just pointing out possiblities.


Well, when the Earth was formed it was largely waterless, now there are several theories as to how we came to get our oceans and water. These range from comets left over from the formation of our solar system colliding with Earth, or photolysis, a process in which radiation and light breaks down molecules releasing compounds or elements. So you see, this is what the Stratum could show, not Noah's great flood. This happened billions of years ago, long before there was any life on earth.



posted on Feb, 7 2006 @ 06:20 PM
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Pick a topic? I think I am the one who asked for modern examples. Got any?
Evolution has not been observed directly because it takes millions of years. Isnt every day a million years ahead of where we were a million years ago, but no fish are growing legs and walking on the beach even though a million years have passed. Evolution has not been recorded in any history.
Again i do believe in physics because it is reproducable. The Big Bang is not. And the reason that it is not is because of quantum physics which as Einstien said is spooky stuff. And if we are going to discuss that then another thread needs to be started. It is off topic.
You are correct that I will chime in. The design isnot "natural". Nuff Said

Name one expirement that has EVER PRODUCED a living organism from the way you describe it happening. NOPE CANT DO IT CAN YOU.

You killed yourself in the last paragragh "there was a bridge designed by man at some point". Thank you for making my point for me.

AS FAR AS YOUR SECOND POST, My post wasnot directed at you it was at westpoint23. If you want the answers to your questions sign up and volunteer to go to the sand box and play with the big boys.


PS My math was stated wrongly 6000000000X.05= 300000000. Just punch it in your calculator as shown.



posted on Feb, 7 2006 @ 06:27 PM
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Westpoint23,
Again we are dealing with theories, not fact, as to how water got there. The fact is that it was recored in the strata.



posted on Feb, 7 2006 @ 07:07 PM
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Aight, I gotta jump in here.

Ultralo1, can you explain to me how we have new species discovered all the time? Can you show me ONE shread of evidence that a divine creator created these new species? Can you show me ONE shread of evidence that there is a divine creator? Can you tell me how creation can explain the fact that we can cross humans with other animals? What happened to those "kinds" that were separate from each other?



posted on Feb, 7 2006 @ 07:15 PM
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Name one expirement that has EVER PRODUCED a living organism from the way you describe it happening. NOPE CANT DO IT CAN YOU.


Well, in several experiments scientists have reproduced the atmospheric and biological conditions of the early Earth. Now, the most famous of these experiments is of course the Miller Experiment. The Miller experiment showed that in the conditions of the early Earth it was possible for organic compounds, amino acids and proteins to form. Now in Millers experiment it only took one week for these compounds to form. Given that early Earth had hundreds of millions of years to perfect that one combination that can create a living organism it is not inconceivable to assume that bacteria could have been created given that much time.

After all bacteria are one of the most simplistic living organisms on Earth. They are also found to live in some of the most inhospitable places on Earth, this means that they could have survived in the harsh conditions of early Earth.

Miller-Urey Experiment



posted on Feb, 7 2006 @ 07:39 PM
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Name one expirement that has EVER PRODUCED a living organism from the way you describe it happening. NOPE CANT DO IT CAN YOU.


Well, define your definition of living.

www.news.harvard.edu...
www.geocities.com...
www.space.com...

I could find more example's of current work being done that is closing in on the ability to create simple life forms. Although your right, I can't provide an example of life emerging suddenly, although we're still trying to understand just what the onset of life was. How it started. What properties were present and needed. Once we know all this, then we can start experimenting. In the meantime, we can, today, create simple life forms. Strand's of genetic material that reproduces on it's own. We can turn strand's of dna into computer's. We can do alot with genetic research. We know for a fact that genetic's is why were here. How our genetic material evolved to what is now, we're working on that, but our lack of not knowing the answer today doesn't give any shred of reality for a godly being. Ignorance does that.





You killed yourself in the last paragragh "there was a bridge designed by man at some point". Thank you for making my point for me.


Did you miss the statement where the first bridge could have been a fallen tree? I don't think I've "made" your point in the slightest. Your point is the natural occurance of life could not have happened naturally. Your point is that there was a divine force that created life, without any evidence of such. My point is life is a series of evolving, complex chemical reaction's that arose naturally. Science does provide evidence and proof for the most part. Religion has neither. God has neither.




AS FAR AS YOUR SECOND POST, My post wasnot directed at you it was at westpoint23. If you want the answers to your questions sign up and volunteer to go to the sand box and play with the big boys.


Welcome to the internet, and welcome to a discussion board. If you can't handle other's nitpicking what you say, don't post them. Don't play with the "big boys". At any rate, it was a valid question, one you failed to answer and not only that, threw an infintile hissy fit when asked.

[edit on 7-2-2006 by Produkt]



posted on Feb, 7 2006 @ 09:51 PM
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westpoint23. Produckt stated as fact that chemicals could form life in his previous post. I concide that there is the possibilty that it did happen that way. But it has been no closer to being proven than divine intervention has. In all the articles quoted the most promising one is the one from Harvard where they have RNA that can handle six proteins. How far from a bacteria is this or a virus? About as far as the moon from earth? No where in any of my post have I said that evolution is not possible, I wanted to state that it is only a theory. And I was feed up with people using the chimp is my cousin routine to bolster there arguement. They do not realize just how different 5% equals.

Truthseeka, first question. celocanth the fish, thought to be exticnt for millions of years found to be alive in 1930s. Gorrilas, Ivory billed wood pecker. Just because we have not seen it befor does not mean that it has never existed before and just evolved today. Can you show me that they evolved from something else ( missing link)? No I cannot show you that a DC is there, not trying to be smart but it is called Faith. On the last two what have we humans crossed with and what "kinds" are you talking about?

And to Produckt, again there are no expirements that create life like you said in the previuos post. A strand of RNA is a very long way from a bacterium. But Yes it is a start but it is not even a spark that can create a fire. Even the scientist admit that this work is not creating life. "Sceintist dont know how stuff evolved into what it is now but they are working on it our lack of not knowing the answers doe not give reality for a godly being". You have Faith that science will give answers, I have faith god will.So does your lack of knowing the answer exclude the possiblity of a godly being? Why do you think that there are no studies involving miracales or the proof of divine inteligence. The researchers cannot get grants for these types of studies. Without scientific studies in these ares will a divine creator ever be proven or disproven? I wish I could cite studies in this area but now you see why I cannot. I have to go on Faith I cannot prove there is a God I can only believe.

Nope never said that it could not happen naturally. All along stating that evolution is a theory not fact. Again you stated that " ther was a bridge desighned by a man at some point" The golden gate is a far cry from a tree falling.

What questions were valid and in whos Opinion? Yours
Until you serve in the military Your questions and opinions regarding such things as combat dont count for anything.I told you how to get the answer that you want. Take it or leave it. Welcome to the Millitary, It is not a democracy or fair. how big a boy are ya?

mod edit: censor circumvention

[edit on 8-2-2006 by sanctum]



posted on Feb, 7 2006 @ 09:57 PM
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Can some body tell me how to do the quote thing? I am tired of trying to retype yalls words. Thanks



posted on Feb, 7 2006 @ 10:40 PM
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A strand of RNA is a very long way from a bacterium.


And a bacterium is a very long way from a human being. RNA and DNA, are the two thing's that produce the needed chemical reaction's for life. In one of those link's mid section to end, it discusses experiment's with RNA that implicate a possible way for RNA to be the precursor of life as we define it. True, none of the experiment's have lead to a natural occurance of life as we define it. Yet. But we're still trying to define and revise our understanding of prebiotic condition's that lead to life.

I don't have any faith that science will have all the answer's. It's not a religion. I have an understanding of the world that continually evolve's due to usage of science to define that understanding. I know and realize science isn't alway's right. That isn't the definition of faith. The faith in god isn't the proof, or understanding or experimental way's of science. The faith of god is just the blind acceptance of god. You have no proof of god's existence. That's true faith




All along stating that evolution is a theory not fact. Again you stated that " ther was a bridge desighned by a man at some point" The golden gate is a far cry from a tree falling.


And an atom, by the same respect is a far cry from a human being. Yet, there are proven natural law's that allow that atom to combine naturaly to produce molecule's, to produce ultimatley us. The bridge example was just that, an example, analogy. Not a factual occurance of evolution. Evolution does occur. Look at the fossil record. Look at our genetics. Again, evolution isn't a wham bam thank ya ma'am event. It happen's over many many moons.




And if you ar truly at west point and graduate the first thing that you will learn in combat is that there is a god and the second is, there are no atheist once the shooting starts.





What questions were valid and in whos Opinion? Yours Until you serve in the military Your questions and opinions regarding such things as combat dont count for anything.


I never stated any opinion's regarding combat. Your statement was directed towards learning that there is a godwhen in combat.

My question

"What is it that you learn that leave's no undeniability that a god exist's. "

All your responses to this one simple question have been met by infintile hissy fit's. It's a valid question based upon your claim's. I could join the military, but I see no need to do so. For instance, my grandfather was in the military as were other member's of my family. None believe in god or hold any other religous belief's. They were combatants in war time. They witnessed death. Yet still, never learned without any undeniablity that there is a god. So yes, my question to you is perfectly valid. If you'd like to not answer it, then just say so or ignore it on your next post. I don't see the need for your infintile hissy fit's over a simple question though. Waa waaa, I was in war, waa waa it proved to me there's a god. Waa waa, you want to learn it then go to war yourself waa waa.

P.S. sorry for my little childish outburst, I just figured maybe I should meet you at your level.

[edit on 8-2-2006 by sanctum]



posted on Feb, 7 2006 @ 11:06 PM
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My infintile responcees and hissy fits. Very Nice personal attack Cry Baby. If you want the answers I told you how to get them. So quit Pissing and moaning that "its a valid question". And the "MyGrandaddy and other family members were in there" does not open the door for you in this club. Go do it your self sweet cheeks or have you even hit puberty yet? And as far as hearsay goes i dont care what you say about your family members beliefs, it is hearsay. I keep trying to see things from your point of veiw but i cant get my head that far up my A**. Now sweetcheecks if you want to whine about not answering question I suggest you get your head out of where it is and reread my posts to you and asnwer all the questions that have been asked of you.

Did i ever say I was in combat? Nope. Did I ever say That I had a life and belief altering experiance in combat? Nope. If you had ever been in the military you would have understood the meaning of what I said.

You have beliefs, do you love this country, are you willing to fight for what you believe in? Are you willing to die so others have the right to believe in any ingnorant beliefs without fear of reprisal,do you enjoy being able to critizise the government without fear of death? Do you enjoy public school, do you like to be choose which career you want? Then Thank a Vet.

If you will notice Westpoint 23 has never made that staement of mine an issue.
If you Can read this thank a teacher, If you can read this in english thank a vet.



posted on Feb, 7 2006 @ 11:25 PM
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My my, have I hit a sore spot or what?

Now, why don't you go lay down, take a nap and chill for a little bit. Then try coming back and reposting an intelligently thought out post, rather then the hissy fit garbage you just posted.



posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 06:08 AM
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Can we stop with the personal snipes, and post in a civil manner.

Thank you.



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