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A twist on the ontological argument proving the existence of God

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posted on Mar, 3 2019 @ 12:16 AM
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St. Anselm, Archbishop of Cantebury (1033-1109), is the originator of the ontological argument. This argument is laid out in his written work called Proslogium which can be download in PDF form here:

Proslogium

"[Even a] fool, when he hears of … a being than which nothing greater can be conceived … understands what he hears, and what he understands is in his understanding.… And assuredly that, than which nothing greater can be conceived, cannot exist in the understanding alone. For suppose it exists in the understanding alone: then it can be conceived to exist in reality; which is greater.… Therefore, if that, than which nothing greater can be conceived, exists in the understanding alone, the very being, than which nothing greater can be conceived, is one, than which a greater can be conceived. But obviously this is impossible. Hence, there is no doubt that there exists a being, than which nothing greater can be conceived, and it exists both in the understanding and in reality."

The passage is a little difficult to unravel. Here is a more sequenced version of the argument:

1. It is a conceptual truth (or, so to speak, true by definition) that God is a being than which none greater can be imagined (that is, the greatest possible being that can be imagined).
2. God exists as an idea in the mind.
3. A being that exists as an idea in the mind and in reality is, other things being equal, greater than a being that exists only as an idea in the mind.
4. Thus, if God exists only as an idea in the mind, then we can imagine something that is greater than God (that is, a greatest possible being that does exist).
5. But we cannot imagine something that is greater than God (for it is a contradiction to suppose that we can imagine a being greater than the greatest possible being that can be imagined.)
6. Therefore, God exists.

Here is my twist on this argument. Maybe not as good but maybe another way to come to the same conclusion:

1. God is word that represents every possible thought and experience imaginable.
2. There are no other words in our dictionary containing more meaning than the word God.
3. Just like our consciousness transcends our body, God's consciousness transcends the Universe.
4. Consciousness exist, experiences of reality exist, therefore, God exists because there's no other word big enough to contain all the information.

However, a single Universe is not enough. Consider the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics where we have a infinite number of Universe in the multi-verse.

Many-worlds Interpretation

Multiverse

With the Multiverse every possible quantum state is realized. In one Universe a person marries Sally. In another Universe the same person marries Sue. Every possibility is mapped out in complete realization so the Multiverse is absolutely complete at a higher dimension. An omnipotent God would then be the consciousness experiencing the Multiverse in its entirety. This Multiverse version of God's consciousness is the word containing the most information possible in its definition.


edit on 3-3-2019 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 3 2019 @ 01:21 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

Many years ago I worked out this summary of his argument;
1; There must be a Greatest Conceivable Entity (GCE).
2; Obviously we can imagine a GCE (we did that in the first stage), which settles the existence of an imaginary GCE.
3; But what is real is greater than what is imaginary, so a real GCE must be greater than an imaginary GCE.
4; Therefore there must be a real GCE.

The ontological argument rests on something being "conceivable", so trying to understand whether it works will "do your head in", as they say in London.
I've always thought that the big flaw from the viewpoint of Biblical theism is that it doesn't actually prove enough to be useful.



posted on Mar, 3 2019 @ 07:00 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

God is said to be 'ALL knowing'.

Look right now to what is knowing (aware of) these words.
Notice that the knowing presence never actually apears to be seen..... could anything appear outside the knowing space?

All that appears is passing... it comes and goes......... What does not pass is the aware space in which the appearance comes and goes in.

The aware space often gets overlooked........ because it doesn't appear to be some thing.
edit on 3-3-2019 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2019 @ 08:46 AM
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originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: dfnj2015

God is said to be 'ALL knowing'.

Look right now to what is knowing (aware of) these words.
Notice that the knowing presence never actually apears to be seen..... could anything appear outside the knowing space?

All that appears is passing... it comes and goes......... What does not pass is the aware space in which the appearance comes and goes in.

The aware space often gets overlooked........ because it doesn't appear to be some thing.


Every possible thought that can occur in mind-space was represent in the definition of God I presented.



posted on Mar, 3 2019 @ 08:56 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

God is the space that thought appears in.

The everpresent aware space.

Thought comes and thought goes..... but God is never not here.


edit on 3-3-2019 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2019 @ 10:16 PM
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The problem I have with the ontological argument is that something conceived--and reasoning based upon the conception--cannot make it real for everyone.

This is no different from a person that is experiencing an hallucination: they see, hear, and feel (among other senses) things they perceive. It is 100% real to them in their hallucinative state.

Exactly as St. Anselm wrote, the hallucinating person "conceived to exist in reality" the hallucination.



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