It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Can you show me one person saying we should emulate Venezuela ?

page: 4
13
<< 1  2  3   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 3 2019 @ 10:29 AM
link   
a reply to: pexx421


to keep others from getting it.


My family escaped a socialist country with everything stripped from them on their way out.

We came to the US with NOTHING. I have been homeless on the streets of LA and LV as a child. My parents struggled in a new nation, knowing little about living in a free nation.

You accept "your lot" in life when you don't have anything to begin with. It's hard to break away from that mentality once it's been punished into you by socialist enforcers. I learned a lot from what happens to people when you rob them of opportunity for an extended period of time, then suddenly release them into a free society. It is daunting, but my parents and I did it, legally, and no one ever stood in our way.

I came from very modest means. It has taken me all of my life so far to work my way up into the successful man you are dealing with right now. I didn't want anyone to hand anything to me. Conversely, NO ONE ever kept me from achieving.

I grabbed my own upward mobility, sacrificed much, literally risked my life. I'm in a class of my own.

There is no magical Man keeping you down. Like the choices you make, the opportunities you take or pass up, success is up to you. There is no class warfare. Thats the mantra of the envious socialist and not a valid philosophy.




posted on Mar, 3 2019 @ 10:49 AM
link   

originally posted by: highvein
a reply to: deadlyhope




Can you show me one person saying we should emulate Venezuela ?





Five years ago, future Democratic presidential contender Bernie Sanders described Socialist-ruled Venezuela as a more suitable exemplar of the American dream than the United States.





www.libertynewsdaily.com/blog-929-flashback:-bernie-sanders-praised-socialist-venezuela-as-model-for-ending-income-inequality



Satisfied?


That's a 1st Round SWAT Down!! Bell rang, first swing...and he's...ON...THE...CANVAS!!



Chuck Norris...is that you???




edit on 3/3/2019 by Flyingclaydisk because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2019 @ 11:33 AM
link   
a reply to: ClovenSky

Very good points. I do think a conversation about why the right only points to Venezuela as some sort of grand model for what they Think the left wants, is a sign of how effective their propaganda machine is.

So, yeah, here are two extremes:

Socialism vs Robber Barons.

The right seems to want the Koch Brothers and other extremely wealthy by donor-class types to rule over the rest of us like Feudal Lords and the Robber Barons of old. “Leave us the hell alone” = “I’ve got mine, go die in the street, loser.”

Is this true? This seems to be the end result.

Is there room in Capiltalist America for both “personal responsibility” and “a compassionate safety net?”

Does it make sense to have collective defense? How about education? Infrastructure? Healthcare?

If you don’t think one of those makes sense, why?

Stop using “Venezuela!” as a shield against honest discussion of how we could improve our country, please. The future depends on civil discussion.




edit on 3-3-2019 by AboveBoard because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2019 @ 11:41 AM
link   

originally posted by: AboveBoard


Is there room in Capiltalist America for both “personal responsibility” and “a compassionate safety net?”

Does it make sense to have collective defense? How about education? Infrastructure? Healthcare?



If you can do these things without taking away my freedoms, my freedoms to choose and self-determine, then knock yourself out!




posted on Mar, 3 2019 @ 11:43 AM
link   

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: AboveBoard


Is there room in Capiltalist America for both “personal responsibility” and “a compassionate safety net?”

Does it make sense to have collective defense? How about education? Infrastructure? Healthcare?



If you can do these things without taking away my freedoms, my freedoms to choose and self-determine, then knock yourself out!



Ok. Which specific “freedoms?” I’m asking sincerely.




posted on Mar, 3 2019 @ 11:46 AM
link   
a reply to: AboveBoard

My freedoms to choose my own healthcare or not. My freedoms to eat/drink/smoke what I want without someone else on my ass because "they" are paying for it! My freedoms to keep my money away from government mandates for the collective, my freedoms to NOT pay for someone else's education.



posted on Mar, 3 2019 @ 12:09 PM
link   
I would expect it makes sense to most that even with single payer healthcare, that private insurance would still be legal. If they could compete. Why not? As far as education, it should come from local taxes. You should only pay for your own and that if your family and community. In fact, I agree that most things should be decentralized, and handled on the local level.



posted on Mar, 3 2019 @ 12:44 PM
link   

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: AboveBoard

My freedoms to choose my own healthcare or not. My freedoms to eat/drink/smoke what I want without someone else on my ass because "they" are paying for it! My freedoms to keep my money away from government mandates for the collective, my freedoms to NOT pay for someone else's education.


Okay. So if “the collective” supports some kind of healthcare option that frees people from medical poverty / bankruptcy and takes care of extreme costs due to group purchase power - something in that vein - but still allows you to opt out of it and have private insurance BUT if you choose not to get any insurance, you risk having no options if you get sick/injured outside the enrollment period and must pay entirely out of pocket. Obviously this is hypothetical. I’m just asking in this case if you can see this as ok, or are you just entirely against anything that helps people this way.

Also, how do you see “not paying for the collective if I don’t want to” working out in terms of the ability for the systems that keep us safe (ie military and intelligence, police) if they are not earmarked by individuals for funding.

As to food, drink, smoke - I’m guessing there is some kind of flashpoint argument about this that I’m not aware of other than Trump or someone claiming the leftists are coming for your hamburgers?? I don’t understand this one - unless you are referring to illegal substances, but I don’t know the story behind “them” “paying for it.” I don’t want your hamburgers. Eat as much meat as you like. Drink as you will just don’t operate a vehicle that could get someone killed, and ditto for “special smoke.” I also don’t want to breathe any of your smoke, so I hope we can work out how your smoke can not invade my lungs and brain?

If people are selfish and pay nothing, do we not allow them access to roads, police, firefighters etc, unless they pay for them some other way?

How do you see your interpretation of “freedoms” (which are not all Constitutionally guaranteed?) helping us be a better nation? And how would the nation function?

Again, I’m asking sincerely.



posted on Mar, 3 2019 @ 01:38 PM
link   

originally posted by: AboveBoard


How do you see your interpretation of “freedoms” (which are not all Constitutionally guaranteed?) helping us be a better nation? And how would the nation function?

Again, I’m asking sincerely.


Speaking of guarantees by the Constitution, could you point out where free education, free healthcare are?

Look, "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor" should have taught all of us the realities of government-run programs designed to "benefit" us.



posted on Mar, 3 2019 @ 01:43 PM
link   

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: AboveBoard


How do you see your interpretation of “freedoms” (which are not all Constitutionally guaranteed?) helping us be a better nation? And how would the nation function?

Again, I’m asking sincerely.


Speaking of guarantees by the Constitution, could you point out where free education, free healthcare are?

Look, "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor" should have taught all of us the realities of government-run programs designed to "benefit" us.


1. You’re correct. They are not guaranteed by the Constitution. The “general welfare” aspect leaves a lot of room for interpretation. They are not Unconstitutional either.

2. Wow. One satement by Obsma that didn’t turn out the way he said.

If that is your standard for outrage, then why aren’t you at the White House brandishing a pitchfork? Or at least angrily calling out Trump for the 8000+ documented lies that he has told the American people?

Personally, I don’t see a country being able to function with your ideas. I’m asking you to help me understand how it could.



posted on Mar, 3 2019 @ 01:46 PM
link   
a reply to: AboveBoard

My "ideas" don't amount to a hill of beans.

Might as well deal with the reality of the situation. The US will eventually go socialist. Things will get worse.

The only positive is that in a decade or so, I'll be room temp so I really won't give a flying fig.

The intrinsic, most basic fundamental freedoms we have will be lost in the flurry of government mandates and higher taxes meant not to secure our health and benefit, but to empower a corrupt government.



posted on Mar, 3 2019 @ 03:35 PM
link   
a reply to: DBCowboy

Well, thank you for the conversation.

I’m of the opinion that government is a tool and the outcomes are dependent on the character and intelligence of the people wielding the tool, and for what purpose. Government can be “the problem” or it can be “the solution.” *shrug*. Maybe we are all just human beings who want good things for those we love.


Now it’s Sunday, Cowboy. Put yer feet up and take a load off. Drink something of your choice.

Give Gunther a swat for me (you know he likes that). I wish you an awesome rest of your day.




posted on Mar, 3 2019 @ 04:17 PM
link   

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: AboveBoard

My freedoms to choose my own healthcare or not. My freedoms to eat/drink/smoke what I want without someone else on my ass because "they" are paying for it! My freedoms to keep my money away from government mandates for the collective, my freedoms to NOT pay for someone else's education.







....now about your diet....



posted on Mar, 3 2019 @ 04:58 PM
link   
a reply to: ClovenSky

I'm a fat, hard-drinking, chain-smoking unhealthy old bastard.

And I will pay for whatever I do to my body.

It isn't anyone else's responsibility but mine.

I do it, I own it.



posted on Mar, 3 2019 @ 05:11 PM
link   
a reply to: DBCowboy

I know, I know. Just trying to extend a hand in friendship.

I will find tact one of these days, seconds before the world comes to an end.

Peace to you good sir.



posted on Mar, 3 2019 @ 05:52 PM
link   

originally posted by: ClovenSky
a reply to: DBCowboy

I know, I know. Just trying to extend a hand in friendship.

I will find tact one of these days, seconds before the world comes to an end.

Peace to you good sir.




Don't take me too seriously.

No one else does or should.



posted on Mar, 3 2019 @ 10:09 PM
link   
a reply to: deadlyhope

People just don't grasp the difference. They are controlled by fear based republican propaganda that falsely suggests that supporting universal health care is the equivalent of soviet Russia or Venezuela. It is a very simplistic way of thinking. Helpful social programs doesn't suddenly dissolve the free market or capitalist economy.
edit on 3-3-2019 by Toothache because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2019 @ 10:16 PM
link   

originally posted by: Toothache
a reply to: deadlyhope

People just don't grasp the difference. They are controlled by fear based republican propaganda that falsely suggests that supporting universal health care is the equivalent of soviet Russia or Venezuela. It is a very simplistic way of thinking. Helpful social programs doesn't suddenly dissolve the free market or capitalist economy.


I want to point out that the same conflation I speak of with regard to leftists and their "definition" of socialism, is just as stupid. Socialism isn't a set of government services. I do not view a public option as socialism anymore than I view the USPS as socialism. I have different views on what our healthcare system should look like. Universal health care isn't it.

But that doesn't mean I conflate one thing for another. Nationalization of the ENTIRE healthcare industry IS socialism. Creating a public option is not.


edit on 3 3 19 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2019 @ 03:41 PM
link   
One??? You socialists have such a short memory!!!
To me it seems like yesterday the Hollywood Elite were cheering on the Venezuela Socialist revolution?
Some of them were:
Sean Penn
Danny Glover
Robert DeNiro

There's three, here's more:
nypost.com...



posted on Mar, 4 2019 @ 08:59 PM
link   
a reply to: highvein

Lol, literally the first post destroys the OP. Kudos to you, sir.







 
13
<< 1  2  3   >>

log in

join