Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...

a reply to: pigsy2400

You are full of spirit today Pigs, my my ))

Mind, you’d think an option open to them (the contractor) would have been to notify or feed back to SAPOC (Special Access Program Oversight Committee) in some way and have them address/force the access denial (i.e. what happened afterward). Unless that process or pathway was not clearly defined.

Indeed, but it seems to me that because it was Wilson's job to brief deputy SecDef, who chairs SAPOC, and he was often present at NSC Principals meetings, that this was information they should have had, but didn't.

Whether he was right or wrong, I don't know.

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

Petty Officer Voorhis said of the data that the non uniformed personnel took from the Princeton's vessel "...you could literally plot the entire course of the object, you could extract the densities, the speeds, the way it moved, the way it displaced the air, it's radar cross-section, how much of the radar itself was reflected off it's surface. I mean you could pretty much recreate the entire event with the CEC data."

THIS IS A VERY CRITICAL POINT...

a reply to: celltypespecific

The MIC wants to see the real data about their stuff as recorded by high end military equipment. They cannot just test it without spilling the beans on advanced tech.

The only thing that TTSA has successfully managed to do since their inception in my opinion; is "create" illusions. These illusions have come in many forms and have been propagated in many different ways. One of these I firmly believe is the illusion of division.

They purposely bypassed the existing foundations of "Ufology" and never really made an effort to engage with the community or topics/subjects/cases that came before, well to start with anyway.I suspect this can change or morph depending if value can be extracted and added to their own narrative. (I hear Corbell is busy editing Lazar related things to fit the latest Eric Davis Notes as an example)

Many saw this ignorance of Ufology as a slap in the face, some made excuses for them that they had simply "forgotten" Ufology and that it was an error to do so. In hindsight, one could argue it was entirely intentional, strategical, planned and executed in the way that we have seen it play out and is still playing out right now.

All you have to do is look at how they have approached this subject; It's on their terms, in their language (UAP), at their pace and with their narrative of what the subject should be.

Nothing before 2017 seems to be allowed to exist (yet) and that makes the job a lot easier for TTSA, they don't have to answer or discuss the other narratives or extremely problematic cases that cause changes of opinion and division.

I find that quite understandable, to a point at least.

When controlling the narrative is the key, you need to be able to write your own script from the start. A blank slate so to speak, the people who are the most radical and frankly quite disturbing in their unshakable belief in all things TTSA related, have little knowledge beyond the script that TTSA have been promoting.

This same division by their own creation has also veraciously attacked those that are best placed, most credible and have the skill sets to best question the narrative that TTSA has presented. Only TTSAs narrative is allowed to exist it seems, that is why Ufology was bypassed.

I am not going to say there wasn't division before they came along, of course there was!! BUT nowhere near to the scale that there is now. Particularly if you look at how the venom and rhetoric has escalated from a group that has only been around as long as TTSA themselves have. Which is one of the points I want to make, this illusion of division was largely created by TTSA themselves. "The secondary advisory group" - to get the message to the youth.

We then have these most recent "leaks" and other information that has seemingly all dropped within the space of a week or so. Quite a laundry list indeed and most peoples heads are spinning at the amount and content. Most will only see it as confirmation of what they already thought. "OMG MJ12 is REAL!!" etc.

The finer details of the agenda behind all of this, I believe has one source. Ironically, it appears that the "old guns" of ufology - most of how are again ironically embedded within TTSA or at least driving it from the sidelines are the ones creating the narrative and the division.

Some of the oldest figures in this field that have "seemed" at odds with each other and fired venom at each other publicly and via other means; may not actually be enemies at all. They may in fact be all pulling in the same direction due to what they believe as a collective group.

This same collective group, I "theorize" believe alot of the wackier stuff within Ufology and are actively promoting these beliefs, but would never come out publicly and state those beliefs specifically.

It's quite possible that this "Invisible college/The Aviary" call them what you want, have been searching for answers to the UFO file themselves for a long time, through many different means and possibly by releasing false information; thinking it would lead to confirmation of other information.

To finish off what is now becoming an essay; I believe that this collective group have been "Misinformed" in their quest, hence why we are being "dis-informed" by this same group.

Many "illusions" all playing out at the same time, from the same source to create the ultimate "Illusion of Progress."

When in reality....none of us really know anything. (Jesus, that sounded like Jerry Springers final thought of the day!) I'm off to the pub....

a reply to: pigsy2400

Well that's a heckuva lot of excellent reasoning coming from a deep knowledge base. Thank You.

That many of our Avians are true-believers of some sort is, I fully believe, without question at this point.

I'm not sure I'm ready to concede that this is, for lack of a better term, just a matter of a "disclosure" battle of The Military-Occult-Complex vs The Military-Industrial-Complex so-to-speak.

Might well be though. It has explanatory power.

a reply to: pigsy2400

They're simply becoming aware of the dilemma they face and looking for popular support for their cause, they already recognize that they face an internal threat with regards to their future world government, what worries them is that in conjunction with an external threat providing logistical support in terms of taking out their weapons/intelligence/government systems, as they themselves would do in supporting a rebel cause, they are becoming aware of a bigger picture, Operation Avalon (Santa Catalina).

They've tried forever to understand/contact/manipulate the greater powers that be and have only received the runaround, they aren't liked, there is zero possibility of friendly contact with current regimes and they're spooked.

originally posted by: Madrusa
a reply to: pigsy2400

They're simply becoming aware of the dilemma they face and looking for popular support for their cause, they already recognize that they face an internal threat with regards to their future world government, what worries them is that in conjunction with an external threat providing logistical support in terms of taking out their weapons/intelligence/government systems, as they themselves would do in supporting a rebel cause...

Beautifully written, but I didn't understand any of that.

Sounds like a script for a new 'Star Wars' movie.

a reply to: pigsy2400

Great analysis. The more homework you guys provide, in terms of background, the more surprised I am to find the these birds really do seem into the woo. Before last week, the concept that Big believes faux disclosure could inspire genuine confirmation, was Nowhere near my radar. I’ve heard some bazaar quotes attached to Bigelow, such as an underground alien base under skinwalker, but I didn’t know the extent that he could be the Bennewitz. There seem to be some great entries throughout Vallee’s journals about this wacky crew, I think those have moved up on my reading list.

originally posted by: Sublant

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: Sublant

He wasn’t in their chain of command as far as I know. That’s one reason it’s a suspect story, and certainly not the disclosure of the century

I guess that was pretty much Wilson's point. They were/are getting taxpayer money, but weren't subject to oversight or control by any of the government entities they are by statute supposed to.

It should be noted one of Wilson's duties was to brief deputy SecDef, who in turn has responsibility and oversight over SAPs.

That’s how these people get away with this. I’ve worked in jobs where I’ve had three different bosses. Not even considering the higher ups.

So think of the US government, in that kind of bureaucracy, you could run a Mack truck through it without being seen or heard.

originally posted by: Madrusa
they are becoming aware of a bigger picture, Operation Avalon (Santa Catalina).

Speaking of that. I did feel like we were supposed to dig up some mythology about Catalina island before the next episode. I haven't bothered to look so far.

So, what’s the endgame in this messed up and confusing situation? In my opinion, it’s inevitable “Disclosure”, but not the Disclosure we all want or need, it’s disclosure that benefits certain parties and organizations so they don’t have to explain why they’ve been lying and obfuscating for the past 70 years.

“Disclosure” that benefits the United States and it’s foreign(sone possibly VERY FOREIGN) interests, its intelligence community, the Military Industrial Complex and various high up people is what they all seek in the end. Is this really WHAT WE WANT?

originally posted by: The GUT

originally posted by: Madrusa
they are becoming aware of a bigger picture, Operation Avalon (Santa Catalina).

Speaking of that. I did feel like we were supposed to dig up some mythology about Catalina island before the next episode. I haven't bothered to look so far.

However, based on Catalina Island being a popular tourist destination, over one million people visit it each year. There are several ways to get there from the Los Angeles area. You can take a 15 minute helicopter ride or a 60 minute ferry ride. Ferries depart from major cities such as Long Beach and Newport Beach.

I don’t think they’d be able to hide much of anything on Catalina Island.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Anybody should be able to confirm this for themselves if they have decent cognitive skills, it's not really that complicated, even though a retired physicist and Larry Cates apparently overlooked some things.

There in lies the issue....

a reply to: Arbitrageur

But I believe Fravor saw something he thought was very interesting, that is not in doubt, but what is always in doubt about eyewitness accounts is the ability of a witness to visually estimate size, distance and speed of an unknown object.

And you do realize that another plane (The female pilot and her WSO) was above Fravor and the tic-tac.

The other plane described the exact same events that Fravor described. That's FOUR highly trained individuals ....
Yet you dismiss their accounts...?

That's highly problematic....

I watched the first half of this before and just got around to watching it all. I remember someone here referenced Kevin Day's talking about some pretty out there things.

For what reason Fravor and Corbell wanted to kind of shut him down or out might have to do with the second half of that interview. But not just because it might sound a little woo. Maybe it's revealing longer and more involved relationships?

I think K-Day stated that his journey to understanding the path started 14-yrs ago. Ultimately ending with him being an "empath." He mentioned the paper By Vallee & Davis. Sounds like he might have even ended up in the experiencer antenna program or running in certain alternative circles.

I'm also getting a Gulf Breeze 6 vibe with some of this. Other thread too.

Youtube is bringing up all the TTSA-related MSM & online stuff no matter what I'm punching in along with "UFO." I was just looking for "father corrado Vatican ufo and I get Fravor and Elizondo and voorhees, et al.

It's like it's system-wide.