Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...

originally posted by: celltypespecific
a reply to: KansasGirl

That was the exact point of the latest NYT times article.....
The performed an upgrade of the radar tech. and where now able to detect the UAPs.
The current radar tech is more advanced.

They've BEEN able to detect UAPs via radar this whole time. You must be their target audience. "We performed an upgrade of radar technology, and now we can detect UAPs with it," they say. And then you say "New stuff! They can detect UAPs with radar now and correlate the evidence with eyewitnesses." Think it through and maybe do a fact check on their doublespeak. They've been using radar to correlate to eyewitness statements since the 40's.

a reply to: KansasGirl

Come on Kansas he is the TTSA biggest cheerleader playing the long game, we are just the conspiracy theorists

originally posted by: theruthlessone
a reply to: KansasGirl

Come on Kansas he is the TTSA biggest cheerleader playing the long game, we are just the conspiracy theorists

I'm new on ATS, and I already don't see why there's so much false information and criticism swirling around these forums regarding TTSA? IMHO, miragemen seems to be less of a believer or ufologist or researcher, but more of a debunker, as per his posts about TTSA and other UFO related things, this is just my opinion though, but that is an informed opinion based on his postings in this forum section.

TTSA has, for all I can see, actually given some legitimacy to the subject. The videos and conspiracies that are held in the highest regard by the apparent longest standing members of ATS are just absolutely ludicrous and without a shred of evidence, but they are still held higher than anything TTSA has done.

I am not looking for any arguments, I just don't understand what's legitimate about a shaky hand cam 140p video of something in the sky, or the idea that we have sent some of our kind to planet Serpo. These are the kinds of things I would expect from Corey Goode and Wilcock, wild stories that would be good for a science fiction novel but no real application or importance of any kind; but instead, they are held to that high regard, put on the pedestal.

If you don't trust any kind of disclosure from governments, then you should really just give up at this point. The field hasn't gotten anywhere in terms of legitimacy or credibility in it's 70+ years of existence, until TTSA :/

I just want someone to explain, coherently and in English (not "dey r guvurnmant mann dey lyyeeing.." speak) as to why they do not trust TTSA and/or doubt anything they do.

Thanks

a reply to: XBLToothPik

Please make a list if possible of what you see as false information. I take it you have read all information on this thread and the previous one?

Thanks.

a reply to: XBLToothPik

I just want someone to explain, coherently and in English...as to why they do not trust TTSA and/or doubt anything they do.

I think we've covered that over many posts. If reading is not your thing then listen to what Tom DeLonge was saying before the empty arena launch in 2017 when he was surrounded by spooks. Then listen to everything thats come out since. There is a huge disconnect.

Then really ask what have they achieved? I'll give credit for bringing the topic back into the mainstream. But UFOs are real. They always have been until they become IFOs. Those videos are of UFOs until you know what they are. Is there any proof who Zondo really is or was?

However if you don't believe any of the many valid criticisms then TTSA have achieved their objective....

....This project is about changing the cynical views of youth towards government.

Tom DeLonge - Original Source

Unless you are not that young or its not your government they are talking about. In which case it doesn't matter.

a reply to: KansasGirl

OMG...please use critical thinking.....in regards to advancement in radar tech.
For an anology.....think of a black and white tv in the 50's.....which advanced to color in 70's....we now have 3D TV with extreme high definition resolution.......

With this 3D HDTV....you can observe more detail than your basic black and white TV from the 50's. I hope this helps....I can provide you with more analogies.

a reply to: XBLToothPik

Thank you for posting your comment!!!
I don't understand the hate for TTSA....THEY HAVE MOVED THE FIELD OF UFOLOGY FORWARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHY THE HATE....?

a reply to: celltypespecific

Ufology existed before December 2017....

This "UFO Community" they have "sidestepped" is the reason why alot of the prominent researchers and conference circuit ufologists have stated that they are unhappy with it. They probably deemed it a threat to their meal ticket if TTSA was seemingly taking over the subject.

Note; Define the Ufo Community - its difficult.

Why the Hate?
There is no hate, there are questions, questions that are unanswered and have not been answered; when on occasion they are "answered" those answers are not black and white. There is always a shade of grey and this is something that IS synonymous with Ufology and always has been.

There have been far too many discrepancies and F-Ups for them to be taken seriously. Without bashing the Joe Rogan interview to death again! - Simply watch the part where TDL is talking about and "narrating" a hoax video from the internet! All of the criticism that TTSA has come under is all their own doing, there is no need to deflect and blame others. They messed up, this is on them.

Enough of a dangle of a carrot BUT also enough to make you question if the carrot is orange or purple! Seeing as though you like analogies.

Ufology in general has always seen the US government as the big bad wolf that keeps the secrets; then we have this "disclosure" push by TTSA and all bar one of the members of said company are all ex-intelligence agency employees.

TTSA make this quite clear on their own website;
dpo.tothestarsacademy.com...

Yet apparently this raises no alarms at all with anyone, surely its OK to ask the question? No it is not, we are told that these are the right people to bring you the truth. So the very people that are truth bringers were keepers and spreaders of the lies? That is not logical...

Well this is why TTSA wants to wipe away all UFOLOGY from before 2017 bar the Nimitz encounter as its counter productive to their aims and goals and raises too many questions from those that have been active in this field for a long time.

When did it become wrong to ask questions?
Why do the followers of TTSA go into full on attack mode when people like John Greenwald simply ask a question?

Its a clear marketing strategy to silence the voices that ask questions that are done through a proxy - that way they have no comeback - The Young Believers that think aliens are cool and swirl around Social media and think they are "special" because they are furnished with "secret information" before anyone else. Its the building of a new cult / belief system.


As for the RADAR comments, well the system that is on the strike carrier group is the SDSS. It was developed in the early 1990's and was first prototyped in 1997 and was rolled out into the fleet in 2001. Its 25 yr old technology and isn't cutting edge anymore and is due for refitting of the MKII version of the system actually.


To suggest that radar has been improved to be able to capture UFOs is ridiculous. The technology has simply evolved over time, like all technology does.

That's why you have a 3D 4K 60Inch OLED TV now and not a Black and white TV set.

a reply to: XBLToothPik

...I just want someone to explain, coherently and in English ...why they do not trust TTSA and/or doubt anything they do.

* Because the motive seems to be, at least to date, self-enrichment and self-aggrandizement, rather than the implied, (sometimes explicitly, sometimes implicitly) goal of "getting to the truth".

* Because the methods proposed to achieve this implied objective have been a continuous stream of media via television series, book series, poetry series, music series, etc., ad nauseam, all connected in many ways to THE objective of generating revenue and profits - not truth or disclosure. Use of the term "series" is no coincidence. A continuous and residual revenue stream is the goal. Once the media stream (and income) is on autopilot, royalties ought to keep the 'founders' comfortable on tropical beaches for decades.

* Because the protagonists have given every indication that extraordinary amounts of energy (and realized profits, after 'salaries') are to be expended to stretch the tiniest morsels of "evidence" into years of "story-telling", substituting eyeballs-for-advertisers and trinket/media seller 'opportunity'. This will be sold to us as "increased awareness" and "engaging youth" -but ultimately will yield nothing revelatory.

p.s. a reply to: coursecatalog

...just jumping back to Bigelow for a second (and he seems to always be at the end of every alley way you wander down related to this field). ...What are we supposed to make of this? Does the flying object actually have a Bigelow Aerospace nameplate on it?

This is probably the easiest question on this thread. Think about it: You grow up with Flash Gordon, Apollo, Star Trek, follow Sci_fi and UFO's all your life, and turn into an aviation fanatic in the meantime. As your passions and interests develop you manage to also turn yourself into a millionaire a few times over and cultivate some crucial like-minded 'customers' in federal, regional, and municipal government. The money and network will prove to be quite convenient...

You use your money and contacts to pursue a few side-hobbies -the especially intriguing ones. A few cocktail parties later some ideas get batted around and soon an empty warehouse, then an airport or two, a ranch, libraries of fellow-space-nuts, goofy UFO/Alien paraphernalia (that are all but useless/worthless), and related jetsam and flotsam start accumulating like a glacier in your warehouses. You want more. All of it. Everything there is.

WHY? Ha Ha Haaaaa... Surely you jest! The decades of glacier building yields a few, rare, but tantalizingly compelling outwash pieces. Some of which may be worth dedicating even more and immediate resources to (such as a quick $22MM)....

The goal? Imagine - being the first to actually hold and use a piece of off-world technology! An individual (or government) with that kind of knowledge, especially if it can be kept secret long enough to capitalize, can yield power and wealth unimaginable on this planet. The common narrative of an individual that sought -at any means and cost -a piece of such exclusive, profound, earth-shattering technology -or merely the irrefutable knowledge of it, knows they would then posses the most valuable extant item on Earth -and the wealth, power, and self-actualization that goes with it.

I'm surprised we don't hear of more spaced-out billionaires pursuing this goal. If the truth exists, it MUST be profound - and astronomically, exponentially valuable -in any global currency. The Bezos/Musks/Gates of the world should seek the same thing. Wouldn't you?

Actually, now that I think about it, I'm not sure if I would want the devil himself, Mark Zuckerberg, possessing such technology. Of course, with 2.5 billion daily lemmings, he already rules much of the world....

Thanks, folks - keep up the good fight! (and keep looking up!)

Excellent response pigsy2400. Thank you for your very logical non-emotinal response. You have now clarified
why there is "hate" for TTSA. Regardless, I still think they are moving the field forward...some info is better than none. Its kinda like you are "cutting of your nose to spite the face" or don't throw out the baby with the bath water. You may not like the messenger....but please focus in on the message..

In regards to the Radar comment....you information is wrong...this is a fact. I am refering to the uss roosevelt gimbal encounter please please read the link below...its very detailed in regards to updating of the radar.

"Multiple F/A-18 Pilots Disclose Recent UFOs Encounters, New Radar Tech Key In Detection"

www.thedrive.com...

a reply to: pigsy2400

Excellent response pigsy2400. Thank you for your very logical non-emotinal response. You have now clarified
why there is "hate" for TTSA. Regardless, I still think they are moving the field forward...some info is better than none. Its kinda like you are "cutting of your nose to spite the face" or don't throw out the baby with the bath water. You may not like the messenger....but please focus in on the message..

In regards to the Radar comment....you information is wrong...this is a fact. I am refering to the uss roosevelt gimbal encounter please please read the link below...its very detailed in regards to updating of the radar.

"Multiple F/A-18 Pilots Disclose Recent UFOs Encounters, New Radar Tech Key In Detection"

www.thedrive.com...

a reply to: Outrageo



Think about it..the TTSA members are very established individuals that are already financially well off.....why risk it associating ones self with "crazy ufo group" if it was not important. Additionally, alot easier ways to make money than being apart of TTSA...

"Because the methods proposed to achieve this implied objective have been a continuous stream of media via television series, book series, poetry series, music series, etc., all connected in many ways to an objective of generating revenue and profits - not truth or disclosure.

"

False this all about reaching a larger audience apart from us internet nerds....they need to mainstream the concept of UFOs...


False again....they are literally changing Naval Policy....the navy us updated there reporting guidelines...this is just the beginning.

They critical hole in the rest of your analysis is that you seem to completely IGNORE EXPERT PILOT TESTIMONY!!!!!
THIS IS A SAFETY ISSUE!!!!!

a reply to: celltypespecific

False again....they are literally changing Naval Policy....the navy us updated there reporting guidelines...this is just the beginning.

Can you point us all to the source that names specific members of TTSA speaking with Naval officials and where and when these meeting took place to change these policies?

a reply to: celltypespecific

I am happy to be corrected, I'm happy to have an intelligent discussion and debate with someone with whom I may disagree as long as critical thinking is in play. People usually learn the most from people with whom they disagree with, I certainly have. Sadly most people think they are right all the time, self reflection and awareness is not something that appears to be common these days.

Edit; In terms of radar I was referring to the Nimitz incident.

The one thing TTSA has accomplished is turning the illusion of old ufology vs new into a real battle.

Through dubious marketing techniques to push a selected narrative forwards, they have appeared to turn that illusion into a reality. Spend 5 mins on social media with these "young guns" and you will see what I mean.

Asking questions is what people should do and not be chastised for it either, especially if those questions are towards what someone already believes. But therein lies the problem, people see "asking questions" as an attack and not what it is; a simple question.

Messenger or message is irrelevant, if either is tainted, then well questions are needed.

In terms of "moving the field forward" all they have provided is blurry videos (one of which was liked right here on ATS BTW many years before TTSA) and got a few pundiys on TV saying that there are objects in the sky that are observed by the military and we don't know what they are.

That has been happening for a long time, the difference being the media platforms this information is being presented on, which has vastly changed in the last 10-15 years.

Just because more information is easier to access and spread, should not give the information more credibility; regardless of its source or contents.

a reply to: celltypespecific

I hope they fulfill your expectations. It just a matter of patience
We’ll see

BTW, I will venture to say no one here hates TTSA. We’ve just objectively judged them as we do all ufologist' output and claims.

I think most here want the truth free from self-promotion and hyped agendas.

Many of us know that in the history of ufology there have been many groups that come along making exorbitant claims about disclosure, and "we have the truth" claims and all so far have come up wanting.

And the worst thing questionable groups within ufology have done is deceive and raise false expectations of people only to let them down.

If they do start promoting honest research then more power to them but if they promote BS they will be exposed.

a reply to: celltypespecific

It was a safety issue when allied pilots saw foo fighters in world war 2 and other credible sightings by pilots of all kinds of aircraft since, so why is now any different? Why the big rush all of a sudden?

Why not years ago when the most recentlu reported naval sightings took place? Why has it taken years?

The reporting procedures for safety issues are updated and change every few years anyway as is protocol, as are studies into future technologies every 40 years. The same studies that AAWSAP completed were also done 37 years ago, so it was time.

TDL states that he now owns an aerospace Company, but it's filed as an entertainment company?

If they had come into the field with the correct evidence, documents and been transparent and banged it SLAM on the table and said there you go, alot more people would have got onboard.

originally posted by: pigsy2400

If they had come into the field with the correct evidence, documents and been transparent and banged it SLAM on the table and said there you go, alot more people would have got onboard.

But that would deprive us of announcements about upcoming announcements.

In other words, No Suspense...



What would you prefer - zero progress/disclosure AND no suspense?

That's no fun at all. In fact, it would be NOTHING at all.

a reply to: pigsy2400

I think some folk mistake some of us for being total skeptics without understanding the long and sordid history of some of these intelligence community disinfo artists that have long been mucking around in ufology.

The main reason I've dug into this angle and continue to be vocal about their motives is because I have a real disdain for those muckers messing around in one of the most profound mysteries humanity contemplates.

If what we're seeing is the beginning of true disclosure that would be great. The evidence thus far, however, suggests we be very careful in parsing whatever they tell us.

Having said that...I do have the new show on record.

One thing to keep in mind re: all us haters in twitfology and the forums:

- Knapp interviews TDL and asks the logic of hiring former CIA to TTSA, since they are enemy #1 in ufology. Knapp helps TDL explain that the difference is his team is comprised of former scientists, etc rather than those working in intelligence, specifically counter intelligence.

- Fast forward, Lue the CI spy "retires" and joins TTSA. TDL returns to Coast to Coast and addresses the criticism of hiring a bunch of intelligence spooks. They respond that ufology/Internet haters have never been able to take yes for an answer and we are basically miserable in our inability to recognize disclosure.

P.S. as a newbie I second guessed a bunch of red flags from Knapp due to what felt like universal adulation from many researchers/posters whose opinion I respect. Thankfully, when digesting decades worth of statements in a short time you can quickly catch onto contradictions and flat out lies... but I feel there is a strange refusal to hold Knapp accountable for his role in the F$ckery. Especially considering he, like his boy Lazar, has ZERO love for us! He's made that clear as far back as the 90s when he said Billy Meier wasn't accepted because UFO researchers are so jealous and petty that they refuse evidence they didn't find, plus a bunch of other insults. Why the pass?

originally posted by: InspectaBecky

- Knapp interviews TDL and asks the logic of hiring former spooks to TTSA, since they are enemy #1 in ufology. Knapp helps TDL explain that the difference is his team is comprised of former scientists, etc rather than those working in intelligence, specifically counter intelligence.

The spin is incredible. Especially considering it's been a gaggle of IC scientists at the center of most of it. Serpo, for example: Puthoff, Kit Green, et al. And here they are again saying, "Trust us." Not to mention that they do--including Lue--have CI backgrounds/experience.

P.S. as a newbie I second guessed a bunch of red flags from Knapp due to what felt like universal adulation from many researchers/posters whose opinion I respect. Thankfully, when digesting decades worth of statements in a short time you can quickly catch onto contradictions and flat out lies... but I feel there is a strange refusal to hold Knapp accountable for his role in the F$ckery. Especially considering he, like his boy Lazar, has ZERO love for us!

You certainly nailed that, Inspecta! Good on ya' for doing the required research and also for laying out some of the issues so succinctly.

I have come to have zero respect for Knapp---he's been a card-carrying member of that team of hoaxers/disinfo artists for a long time. I call 'em "The Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight." I think they've given up on trying to scam those who have done their research and the new plan--as has been pointed out--is the "normies" and young folk who have no understanding of their quite shameful and duplicitous history.

For some of the newcomers here: Do you know about Serpo? It's a good place to start if you want to understand why some of us feel the way we do.