Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...

a reply to: PublicOpinion

Of course this is a big thing. Of course the people who have been debunking this subject for years do not want this to be a big thing. Why would they? They have pretty much dedicated their life to debunking this. Take that away from them, and they will not be the same.

It's a bit like football hooligans. Take that aspect away from football, and they would not even like football.

Frustrating, but just the way it is.

a reply to: Jay-morris

Sorry, I could not disagree more.

Scratch the surface of any vocal UFO skeptic - especially one trained in the scientific method - and you will find a 10 year old Star Wars or Star Trek fan clutching his toys and wishing all this # was really true.

a reply to: Jay-morris

Frankly, I think the DOD is pushing a lie and (y)our own black projects pose as unidentified threats. How am I supposed to rule that out now, gobble up official statements as if they were gospel and wish this lying sack of a gubbermint was actually telling the truth this time around?

Yay, disclosure! Right.

originally posted by: coursecatalog
a reply to: Jay-morris

Sorry, I could not disagree more.

Scratch the surface of any vocal UFO skeptic - especially one trained in the scientific method - and you will find a 10 year old Star Wars or Star Trek fan clutching his toys and wishing all this # was really true.

I did not say every skeptic. I said a lot of ufo debunkers. How many ufo cases have we seen ridiculous explanations? How many debunkers on here alone clearly do not want the truth because they enjoy debunking so much?

But it's the same with hardcore ET ufo believers. Both run pretty much on belief, and both like to be part of a group. Humans like to be part of groups, be it religous, gangs, believers or debunkers.

The evidence that some ufos defy explanation is overwhelming , that much is obvious.

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: Jay-morris

Frankly, I think the DOD is pushing a lie and (y)our own black projects pose as unidentified threats. How am I supposed to rule that out now, gobble up official statements as if they were gospel and wish this lying sack of a gubbermint was actually telling the truth this time around?

Yay, disclosure! Right.

It could very well be the case that these ufos are black projects, and they want people to actually believe they are ET, just to cover the truth, or make other nations think they have ET technology. Until we know for sure, it's all theories and speculation.

a reply to: PublicOpinion

What is happening?

Bigelow has been hoovering up UFO reports for decades from the FAA and UFO organisations. He was also funding UFO researchers. However, whilst he threw a few bones in the early days of NIDS he has been reluctant to share data or any research. Why?

In 2007 a video from a fighter aircraft deployed on the USS Nimitz was leaked onto the internet on a German web server. Although initial reactions were that it was a fake. A year later Bigelow was given a contract by the US DoD (AASWAP) although BAASS had already been formed. Surely Bigelow had foreknowledge of this contract coming up.

He then went about spending tax payers money cleaning out MUFON's database of UFO cases and also sent his staff to South America and elsewhere for more UFO data mining operations. They showed interest in propulsion systems of UFOs (see CardDown's link above). Although they didn't seem to share there either.

But why would the DoD need him to do their reconnaissance work? They've got crashed saucers and technology going back 70 years if you believe the lore. Even if that's not really the case, they have plenty of technology on the ground, above it and in space and plenty of manpower . Why would you need Bigelow watching over UFO organisations across the globe on a shoestring for the most well funded military on the planet?

Now you can surmise that Bigelow has been collecting UFO data and now believes in aliens because he said so on TV a few years ago. Maybe that's the case and he's not allowed to say anything. Or he's allowed to say it on TV but not why.

Or this is some form of spy game. What better way to keep a check on technology being tested by your own military, allies and adversaries than open source information from UFO organisations under the guise of an eccentric billionaire who's a bit crazy about UFOs? That way you can also follow the leaks about new tech & propulsion technology too. The Chinese are rather partial to playing that game. That's how they built built their own version of the F-35 fighter..

I appreciate that people are not interested if it's not about discussing aliens or UFOs. Fair enough.

But isn't the above explanation more plausible than Bob Bigelow being paid to look for aliens on behalf of the US government?

When you tell people you are interested in the UFO topic - that stigma that people like to talk about - well that stigma is the perfect cover for quite frankly, boring secret projects. Yeah it true, there are probably lots ULTRA TOP MEGA SECRET projects that are as dull as dish water. Not everything classified should be classified as "interesting".

Where else better to hide something that needs to remain hidden and that even if people did talk about - would be ignored anyway?
That for me is Ufology in a nut shell...a terrible Spy Novel whose readers have a infinite thirst for more of the same that will never be quenched.

You don't even have to do much, plant a few seeds and watch the people of these forums, visitors to conferences, podcaster's, radio show hosts and the people claiming to part of these weird programs run the rest of marathon for you. Maybe a step in now and again, to ensure that it doesn't go completely off track of course; that's when you simply dust off that old carrot and whack "New & Improved Recipe On It"

It would also be a good front for flexing your military muscles; sometimes there is tech that is not completely out of the black that is "meant to be seen" and reported on - an invisible shot over the bow so to speak. We have this that you don't know about; so don't f**k with us kind of approach. I think its more than possible that is what the Wichita sighting could have been - it sure as hell wasn't a B2!

It's also an excellent opportunity to throw off your competitors; hell get them spending money on something that is proven to not work at all - even some patents that may have been put out there as an example. If you can get your enemy focused on a few areas and get them to waste time, money and resource chasing rainbows and aliens whilst you have workable platforms that do give a military advantage on the battlefield...

Wouldn't you use memes, myths, legends and nonsense as a cover for your projects?

I sure as hell would....it would be quite cheap to do as well. If your F-35 successor program is going to cost countless billions - a few million here and there to a couple of loons to drum up BS isn't much for the security of a program and the military advantage it offers.

What was I talking about again.....oh yeah blobs on videos and punk rockers...Ffs

a reply to: mirageman

HA! Well roared, mirage-guy!

What better way to keep a check on technology being tested by your own military, allies and adversaries than open source information from UFO organisations under the guise of an eccentric billionaire who's a bit crazy about UFOs? That way you can also follow the leaks about new tech & propulsion technology too. The Chinese are rather partial to playing that game.

Precisely. It's a neat solution to keep tabs on all kinds of sightings, which would include your own toys and their impact on the community in general. And you have the plausible deniability with said "eccentric billionaire" in charge of the whole operation, allegedly (only) due to his "personal interest".
Who knows, maybe the social implications (and their corrosive effect on the people within the military industrial complex) consequently led to more of a full-spectrum dominance approach with TTSA?

But isn't the above explanation more plausible than Bob Bigelow being paid to look for aliens on behalf of the US government?

Not only that, I think it's way more interesting to follow as well. This is one of the few threads I really enjoy coming back to. Keep up the good work, folks!

Bob Bigelow being paid to look for aliens on behalf of the US government?

I just had to quote that part to see how silly it sounds on it's own merit. And I'll go with "very silly".

originally posted by: celltypespecific
This is unprecedented....

I wonder what good ole Mick West and ARTI thinks about this....?

A balloon....no.. a bird...??!!

Two distant jets, and a balloon.

www.youtube.com...

originally posted by: pigsy2400
When you tell people you are interested in the UFO topic - that stigma that people like to talk about - well that stigma is the perfect cover for quite frankly, boring secret projects. Yeah it true, there are probably lots ULTRA TOP MEGA SECRET projects that are as dull as dish water. Not everything classified should be classified as "interesting".

Where else better to hide something that needs to remain hidden and that even if people did talk about - would be ignored anyway?
That for me is Ufology in a nut shell...a terrible Spy Novel whose readers have a infinite thirst for more of the same that will never be quenched.

You don't even have to do much, plant a few seeds and watch the people of these forums, visitors to conferences, podcaster's, radio show hosts and the people claiming to part of these weird programs run the rest of marathon for you. Maybe a step in now and again, to ensure that it doesn't go completely off track of course; that's when you simply dust off that old carrot and whack "New & Improved Recipe On It"

It would also be a good front for flexing your military muscles; sometimes there is tech that is not completely out of the black that is "meant to be seen" and reported on - an invisible shot over the bow so to speak. We have this that you don't know about; so don't f**k with us kind of approach. I think its more than possible that is what the Wichita sighting could have been - it sure as hell wasn't a B2!

It's also an excellent opportunity to throw off your competitors; hell get them spending money on something that is proven to not work at all - even some patents that may have been put out there as an example. If you can get your enemy focused on a few areas and get them to waste time, money and resource chasing rainbows and aliens whilst you have workable platforms that do give a military advantage on the battlefield...

Wouldn't you use memes, myths, legends and nonsense as a cover for your projects?

I sure as hell would....it would be quite cheap to do as well. If your F-35 successor program is going to cost countless billions - a few million here and there to a couple of loons to drum up BS isn't much for the security of a program and the military advantage it offers.

What was I talking about again.....oh yeah blobs on videos and punk rockers...Ffs

Guess what folks....the Gov. is not this sophisticated... you are giving them way too much credit.

The way the have/are currently handling the current crisis should highlight this fact nicely....

If the GOV. can't get simple testing kits/ face mask.... how on earth do you think they could handle/manipulate/ the above convoluted plotline...

a reply to: celltypespecific

If the GOV. can't get simple testing kits/ face mask.... how on earth do you think they could handle/manipulate/ the above convoluted plotline...

It certainly also explains why the US government (or any government) could never engineer a global world wide cover-up of aliens visiting Earth for over 70 years. Destroying all the good evidence and only leaving the crap photos, fuzzy videos and indistinct physical traces of no substance.

Governments don't really have much more clue than ufologists. In fact the US DoD sent Bigelow to steal data from the ufologists.

originally posted by: celltypespecific

originally posted by: pigsy2400
When you tell people you are interested in the UFO topic - that stigma that people like to talk about - well that stigma is the perfect cover for quite frankly, boring secret projects. Yeah it true, there are probably lots ULTRA TOP MEGA SECRET projects that are as dull as dish water. Not everything classified should be classified as "interesting".

Where else better to hide something that needs to remain hidden and that even if people did talk about - would be ignored anyway?
That for me is Ufology in a nut shell...a terrible Spy Novel whose readers have a infinite thirst for more of the same that will never be quenched.

You don't even have to do much, plant a few seeds and watch the people of these forums, visitors to conferences, podcaster's, radio show hosts and the people claiming to part of these weird programs run the rest of marathon for you. Maybe a step in now and again, to ensure that it doesn't go completely off track of course; that's when you simply dust off that old carrot and whack "New & Improved Recipe On It"

It would also be a good front for flexing your military muscles; sometimes there is tech that is not completely out of the black that is "meant to be seen" and reported on - an invisible shot over the bow so to speak. We have this that you don't know about; so don't f**k with us kind of approach. I think its more than possible that is what the Wichita sighting could have been - it sure as hell wasn't a B2!

It's also an excellent opportunity to throw off your competitors; hell get them spending money on something that is proven to not work at all - even some patents that may have been put out there as an example. If you can get your enemy focused on a few areas and get them to waste time, money and resource chasing rainbows and aliens whilst you have workable platforms that do give a military advantage on the battlefield...

Wouldn't you use memes, myths, legends and nonsense as a cover for your projects?

I sure as hell would....it would be quite cheap to do as well. If your F-35 successor program is going to cost countless billions - a few million here and there to a couple of loons to drum up BS isn't much for the security of a program and the military advantage it offers.

What was I talking about again.....oh yeah blobs on videos and punk rockers...Ffs

Guess what folks....the Gov. is not this sophisticated... you are giving them way too much credit.

The way the have/are currently handling the current crisis should highlight this fact nicely....

If the GOV. can't get simple testing kits/ face mask.... how on earth do you think they could handle/manipulate/ the above convoluted plotline...

They don't have any training in how to get face masks.

But they do have training from convoluted charts in convoluted methods involving UFOs for intelligence agents in the US and UK, as revealed in the Snowden leak discussed here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: Jay-morris

Frankly, I think the DOD is pushing a lie and (y)our own black projects pose as unidentified threats. How am I supposed to rule that out now, gobble up official statements as if they were gospel and wish this lying sack of a gubbermint was actually telling the truth this time around?

Yay, disclosure! Right.

I can't say for sure but it's certainly at the top of my list of possibilities that there is an intelligence objective here, even if I don't fully understand it, but it's probably something like that. They are training intelligence agents in deceptive methods and UFOs are part of the training, we know that thanks to Snowden's leak.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: PublicOpinion

What is happening?

...But why would the DoD need him to do their reconnaissance work?
...Why would you need Bigelow watching over UFO organisations across the globe on a shoestring for the most well funded military on the planet?

Simple: Plausible Denial. By giving a "contract" to Bob the Big Boy, the gubbmint can plausibly deny having any knowledge/artifact/'truth' -in their possession. Rather - they can shrug, point to Bobby - and say, "Ask him. Maybe he's got it - we don't collect anything on UFO's anymore".

I wonder if Sen Reid got any 'inside scoop' from his Buddy Bob. If Bob shares with anyone, it should be Reid - he go it funded and greased the right wheels to make it happen.

In any case, the whole schema is designed to shield anything worthwhile from us unwashed masses anyway. Just some more well-spent tax money down the loo...

I'm sorry to butt in while the Merry-go-round is running, but can anyone just save me a lot of time and answer a little question for me? I'lll go ahead on the assumption that someone may say yes...in regards to these videos, did anyone, pilots, ground crew etc, etc, see these 'objects' with their naked eyes? Or are all visual contacts via technological interfaces?

I realise it's probably a stupid question but I just can't remember, with any clarity, whether they did or not.

Many thanks.

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

One of the guys on the Hawkeye has stated they saw it with their own eyes, in fact ( I maybe wrong ) I am sure this is the same witness that claimed there was "Winglets" on the minty bugger.

a reply to: KilgoreTrout
I suppose that depends on what assumptions if any you make about the Tic Tac that Fravor saw with his eyes, and the FLIR video. Some people apparently assume it's the same thing. I think that is an extremely flawed assumption, and refer to the pilot who made the video saying he can't confirm it's the same object Fravor saw. I would go even further and point out it exhibited none of the amazing performance characteristics that Fravor described, so I doubt it's the same thing.

So aside from the "Tic Tac" that Fravor and the other three pilots in that group saw with their eyes, which in my estimation is probably not in the FLIR video, I don't recall anyone mentioning visual sightings of the objects in the 3 released videos.

a reply to: pigsy2400
I believe you are referring to the "tic tac" UFO that Fravor (aka FASTEAGLE below) saw, which is not confirmed to be the object in the FLIR video. Again, I doubt it's the same object, and in my estimation people jumping the the conclusion it is the same have no good reason to make that assumption. Don't take my word for it, take the word of the pilot who made the video:

thenimitzencounters.com...

LT.__________ was clear in that he couldn’t confirm that it was the same object as described by FASTEAGLE flight. He never had visual, only seeing the object via the FLIR.

That also confirms the "no visual" of the object in the FLIR video.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Same deal with "Go Fast" and "Gimbal".
The quoted pilots from the events (Lt.'s Graves and Acconis) were quite clear they couldn't obtain eyeball on the object instruments were detecting.
The only eye witness account comes second hand via Graves in which an un-named pilot said he saw a "sphere encircling a cube".


As with Tic Tac - both Gofast and Gimbal show no physical similarities to the pilot reports or any none conventional flight characteristics.

www.blueblurrylines.com...

Please note that strange bit about Agartha.

It makes more sense when you read into synarchy and Traditionalism (Blatavsky fits into this world too). Of which our birds certainly have - Vallee's diaries have Guenon and co show up. It would also explain the weird Masonic stuff we touched on before.
www.harpercollins.com...

Thanks Pigsy, Arbitrageur and Jukiodone for, between you, totally clearing that up for me. Very much appreciated.

originally posted by: RobertSheaffer

originally posted by: celltypespecific
This is unprecedented....

I wonder what good ole Mick West and ARTI thinks about this....?

A balloon....no.. a bird...??!!

Two distant jets, and a balloon.

www.youtube.com...

Regarding the FLIR video, a ‘distant jet’ is pure speculation from Mick’s side. He tries to convince us with Occam’s Razor (if it could have been something simple, why assume something much more complex?).
This would be convincing if all we had was a video of an elongated blob.

But the video is also entirely consistent with a tic-tac shaped object hanging in midair. And that interpretation of the video is entirely consistent with the events that led to this video plus the fact that the US Navy has classified the object in the video as an ‘unidentified aerial phenomenon’.

In the light of this context, a ‘distant jet’ is no longer the simplest explanation. Any civilian or US military jet can be identified easily by their IFF transponders and would never make it to the Navy’s UAP category. A military jet from any other origin would be violating US military air space, and if it came from the ‘usual suspects’ it would be very far from home.

The simplest explanation of the video is that this actually is the ‘flying tic-tac’ hanging around at the CAP of an ongoing military exercise, where it was also seen on radar. Where this ‘flying tic-tac’ came from is another matter.