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Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...
page: 218share:
a reply to: pigsy2400
My personal view actually aligns with Dr. Condon of the famous or infamous Condon Committee when he said to paraphrase: there’s no basis to believe the research of ufos will yield any objective knowledge.
Of course, our friend Vallee refutes his conclusion. But I believe it was not a cynical statement but a statement of fact that the present human technology won’t be able to decipher much from any research of UFOs.
I could be wrong of course, but I personally believe that.
I also believe an organization like TTSA has not a chance of a snowball in hell of being successful in yielding any objective knowledge of UFOs.
It may work fine as a propaganda organization or a commercial UFO marketing enterprise but as a scientific endeavor, it wont last and won’t have any success.
My personal view actually aligns with Dr. Condon of the famous or infamous Condon Committee when he said to paraphrase: there’s no basis to believe the research of ufos will yield any objective knowledge.
Of course, our friend Vallee refutes his conclusion. But I believe it was not a cynical statement but a statement of fact that the present human technology won’t be able to decipher much from any research of UFOs.
I could be wrong of course, but I personally believe that.
I also believe an organization like TTSA has not a chance of a snowball in hell of being successful in yielding any objective knowledge of UFOs.
It may work fine as a propaganda organization or a commercial UFO marketing enterprise but as a scientific endeavor, it wont last and won’t have any success.
a reply to: pigsy2400
I don't think there is an all encompassing "phenomena" that can be applied here. Every single case and even witness statement has to be taken on it's own merits. There is still no conclusive evidence of anything extra-terrestrial or paranormal going on in our skies.
There is plenty of evidence for "unexplained" sightings from witnesses. That's as far as we've got in 2019. But because a hardcore of people believe they are extraterrestrial (or supernatural) then great resistance is met when anyone attempts to explain any UFO case away as something prosaic.
For those claiming it's not been proven that ET isn't visiting Earth then how can you prove a negative?
Can we prove pigs can't fly?
You can start throwing them off skyscrapers and producing a lot of sausage meat? But it doesn't prove all of them can't fly right? Not until every single pig in existence has been sacrificed.
Even then you wouldn't know if any were having an off day and simply wouldn't fly would you?
I don't think there is an all encompassing "phenomena" that can be applied here. Every single case and even witness statement has to be taken on it's own merits. There is still no conclusive evidence of anything extra-terrestrial or paranormal going on in our skies.
There is plenty of evidence for "unexplained" sightings from witnesses. That's as far as we've got in 2019. But because a hardcore of people believe they are extraterrestrial (or supernatural) then great resistance is met when anyone attempts to explain any UFO case away as something prosaic.
For those claiming it's not been proven that ET isn't visiting Earth then how can you prove a negative?
Can we prove pigs can't fly?
You can start throwing them off skyscrapers and producing a lot of sausage meat? But it doesn't prove all of them can't fly right? Not until every single pig in existence has been sacrificed.
Even then you wouldn't know if any were having an off day and simply wouldn't fly would you?
a reply to: mirageman
Its sort of a catch 22...
It can’t be proven to be paranormal nor can it be proven to be prosaic
Nor can it be unproven to being paranormal or unproven being prosaic
And better yet, paranormal and prosaic are relative terms
Or better still, why did Buddha when asked did he believe in God, answer with silence.
Its sort of a catch 22...
It can’t be proven to be paranormal nor can it be proven to be prosaic
Nor can it be unproven to being paranormal or unproven being prosaic
And better yet, paranormal and prosaic are relative terms
Or better still, why did Buddha when asked did he believe in God, answer with silence.
a reply to: IMSAM
Thanks Big LUE!!! Job well done
Today, the U.S. Navy released the dates of three officially acknowledged encounters with what they call “phenomena.” In multiple statements received exclusively by The Black Vault, the Navy excited those interested in UFOs by officially admitting that the videos referred to as the ”FLIR1,” “Gimbal” and “GoFast” were, in fact, “Unidentified Aerial Phenomena” or UAPs. Now, the Navy has offered up brief, but additional details about the cases, some of which, were previously unknown.
Thanks Big LUE!!! Job well done
a reply to: celltypespecific
Everyone should give Big Lue an apology!!!!!!! ESPECIALLY Mick West and fans.....
www.theblackvault.com...#
We should all rejoice and praise the good work of TTSA and especially Big Beautiful Lue.
Although the Navy will not go on the record about any conclusion they have drawn, Gradisher did offer a glimpse into how they characterize the videos by adding, “The Navy considers the phenomena contained/depicted in those 3 videos as unidentified”
Everyone should give Big Lue an apology!!!!!!! ESPECIALLY Mick West and fans.....
www.theblackvault.com...#
We should all rejoice and praise the good work of TTSA and especially Big Beautiful Lue.
edit on 13-9-2019 by celltypespecific
because: (no reason given)
That’s the problem with this UFO or UAP phenomenon, one can only go so far in investigating it.
I mean, okay, even IF this was a legitimate UAP...now what?
Vallee liked to analyze the energy output of the light or radiation of the objects.
Even then, so what? What are we going to prove?
And if it’s shown that the energy output is astronomical, then what?
We can’t follow these objects anywhere, there too fast, elusive, and dangerous.
The fact is as long as they remain generally innocuous and not any real threat Then there’s no sense in spending zillions of dollars trying to understand such an elusive phenomenon.
Want to speculate on ETH, IDH, inner earth, outer space, go at it, have fun. I’ll read Levada’s book and enjoy maybe their speculations about Golems and other weird creepy possibilities. But in the end, it all remains hypothetical. It can get interesting, exciting and that’s fun, we enjoy these possibilities and the more sober possibilities. But we have to realize that even though there may be a very deep, interesting and earth-shattering truth behind this phenomenon, it still is a far and challenging road in the hunt for UFO truth.
That’s the basic problem with TTSA and these kinds of UFO groups. Indeed, this idea that the government should step in is problematic and illusory. Granted, as J. Vallee points out, that no official government-supported investigation with sufficient resources has ever been done. But the reason for that is they don’t see any benefit in doing one: The cost, benefit analysis doesn't add up.
Just bringing up the threat menace in abstract won’t get it done. It has to be a chain of evidence tangible threat not the abstract, nebulous unscientific tales and adventures of personal experiences that can never be verified scientifically.
And I repeat: THEY DONT HAVE THE CAPACITY TO ASCERTAIN THE TRUTH!
The only possibility of any other interpretation other than the above does revolve around a conspiracy of the government concealing facts we don't know.
So in conclusion, this is where the rubber meets the road in that TTSA played on that( conspiracy) meme and has not produced any tangible evidence that they can enlighten us to this secret information that will bring SOME REALITY to the UFOlogy mystery.
I mean, okay, even IF this was a legitimate UAP...now what?
Vallee liked to analyze the energy output of the light or radiation of the objects.
Even then, so what? What are we going to prove?
And if it’s shown that the energy output is astronomical, then what?
We can’t follow these objects anywhere, there too fast, elusive, and dangerous.
The fact is as long as they remain generally innocuous and not any real threat Then there’s no sense in spending zillions of dollars trying to understand such an elusive phenomenon.
Want to speculate on ETH, IDH, inner earth, outer space, go at it, have fun. I’ll read Levada’s book and enjoy maybe their speculations about Golems and other weird creepy possibilities. But in the end, it all remains hypothetical. It can get interesting, exciting and that’s fun, we enjoy these possibilities and the more sober possibilities. But we have to realize that even though there may be a very deep, interesting and earth-shattering truth behind this phenomenon, it still is a far and challenging road in the hunt for UFO truth.
That’s the basic problem with TTSA and these kinds of UFO groups. Indeed, this idea that the government should step in is problematic and illusory. Granted, as J. Vallee points out, that no official government-supported investigation with sufficient resources has ever been done. But the reason for that is they don’t see any benefit in doing one: The cost, benefit analysis doesn't add up.
Just bringing up the threat menace in abstract won’t get it done. It has to be a chain of evidence tangible threat not the abstract, nebulous unscientific tales and adventures of personal experiences that can never be verified scientifically.
And I repeat: THEY DONT HAVE THE CAPACITY TO ASCERTAIN THE TRUTH!
The only possibility of any other interpretation other than the above does revolve around a conspiracy of the government concealing facts we don't know.
So in conclusion, this is where the rubber meets the road in that TTSA played on that( conspiracy) meme and has not produced any tangible evidence that they can enlighten us to this secret information that will bring SOME REALITY to the UFOlogy mystery.
Rejoice brethren,The prophet spake,rain is coming!next year maybe
I think it was this thread we were talking about vallee wanting to say stuff in his forbidden diaries series,i found this and will post it here for
posterity
Found it when i researched about the "pentacle memo" , also in the same page found the following
The above sound too similar to what happened with the nimitz group. Uncle sam creating ufo flaps?And if this is indeed the case and vallee dosent seem to oppose it,Then what are we researching-debating here?Why is vallee even going after apports then? Is that what ttsa is about?rekindle interest in ufos so we can have another test somewhere and check the publics reaction?
Source
Honorary mention paul stonehill
In reading Forbidden Science, you should recognize that the book is a Diary, not an analytical report or a memoir. Therefore many important inferences, many relevant details, can only be found by reading between the lines. Your preliminary analysis of the Pentacle memo is not unfair, but it is somewhat simplistic, and it takes it out of context. I invite you to go back for a second, closer reading.
Found it when i researched about the "pentacle memo" , also in the same page found the following
We expect that our analysis will show that certain areas in the United States have had an abnormally high number of reported incidents of unidentified flying objects. Assuming that, from our analysis, several definite areas productive of reports can be selected, we recommend that one or two of theses areas be set up as experimental areas. This area, or areas, should have observation posts with complete visual skywatch, with radar and photographic coverage, plus all other instruments necessary or helpful in obtaining positive and reliable data on everything in the air over the area. A very complete record of the weather should also be kept during the time of the experiment. Coverage should be so complete that any object in the air could be tracked, and information as to its altitude, velocity, size, shape, color, time of day, etc. could be recorded. All balloon releases or known balloon paths, aircraft flights, and flights of rockets in the test area should be known to those in charge of the experiment. Many different types of aerial activity should be secretly and purposefully scheduled within the area.
The above sound too similar to what happened with the nimitz group. Uncle sam creating ufo flaps?And if this is indeed the case and vallee dosent seem to oppose it,Then what are we researching-debating here?Why is vallee even going after apports then? Is that what ttsa is about?rekindle interest in ufos so we can have another test somewhere and check the publics reaction?
Project Twinkle and other observational efforts by the military, which you mention in an effort to show that Pentacle was only dusting off an old idea, were purely passive projects. In sharp contrast the Pentacle proposal goes far beyond anything mentioned before. It daringly states that "many different types of aerial activity should be secretly and purposefully scheduled within the area (my emphasis)." It is difficult to be more clear. We are not talking simply about setting up observing stations and cameras. We are talking about large-scale, covert simulation of UFO waves under military control.
Source
Honorary mention paul stonehill
Danny, I really hope to introduce TTSA to the realities of Soviet UFO research; the new Russian developments; and of course, China must not be forgotten. Who do I contact?
originally posted by: celltypespecific
a reply to: celltypespecific
Although the Navy will not go on the record about any conclusion they have drawn, Gradisher did offer a glimpse into how they characterize the videos by adding, “The Navy considers the phenomena contained/depicted in those 3 videos as unidentified”
Everyone should give Big Lue an apology!!!!!!! ESPECIALLY Mick West and fans.....
www.theblackvault.com...#
We should all rejoice and praise the good work of TTSA and especially Big Beautiful Lue.
LOL what? Are you really that deluded or just trolling? For what exactly should Mick West and fans apologize?
The fact that the objects are unidentified has never been disputed. The silly claims about them made by TTSA and fans are the issue.
edit on
14-9-2019 by moebius because: (no reason given)
a reply to: Baablacksheep
Finally.
I'm so excited.
What day next week?
Finally.
I'm so excited.
What day next week?
edit on 9/14/2019 by Phage because: (no reason given)
originally posted by: celltypespecific
a reply to: Baablacksheep
Any idea on what our great leader TDL will reveal...?
He'll reveal that TTSA will, sometime in the future, confirm the revelation that Tom will definitely be making another announcement about a forthcoming future statement. Which will even include details of Tom speaking about an upcoming release of information that something is definitely in the pipeline.
originally posted by: celltypespecific
a reply to: celltypespecific
Although the Navy will not go on the record about any conclusion they have drawn, Gradisher did offer a glimpse into how they characterize the videos by adding, “The Navy considers the phenomena contained/depicted in those 3 videos as unidentified”
Everyone should give Big Lue an apology!!!!!!! ESPECIALLY Mick West and fans.....
www.theblackvault.com...#
We should all rejoice and praise the good work of TTSA and especially Big Beautiful Lue.
BBL called it a Drone.
The Black Vault got the Navy to call it a UAP.
Be sure to thank even bigger and more beautiful John G!
New Young Bloods....
news.yahoo.com...#[edit by]edit on 14-9-2019 by celltypespecific because: (no reason given)
“We now know they fly between Mach 5 and Mach 20 — five to 20 times the speed of sound,” Kaku said. “We know they zigzag so fast that any pilot would be crushed by centrifugal force. That they have no exhaust that we can see.” The explanations usually invoked for UFO sightings — meteors, weather balloons, even the planet Venus — can’t explain these live-action high-precision shots, said Kaku, leading to either of two possible conclusions: They are of human origin, representing a technology so cutting-edge that even leading scientists are puzzled by it. Or, he said, “maybe they are evidence of an advanced outer space civilization.”
news.yahoo.com...#[edit by]edit on 14-9-2019 by celltypespecific because: (no reason given)
a reply to: celltypespecific
However, this FLIR expert does not agree with the jet exhaust/glare rotation hypothesis. Here is an interview in which he says, "It doesn't look like an engine to me. It's much too clear and crisp to be an engine exhaust. There's the absence of any type of wings, any type of propulsion system, any rotors, anything like that. And just the way that it turns to the left and it doesn't vary its heat signature, its original shape, just the way that it rotates like that- I'm thinking it's very coarse... it's coarsely rotating. It doesn't look natural like a plane would bank or roll, that kind of thing. So I can only give you an opinion, but from what I've seen it looks very odd and atypical of what I normally see in the everyday sky. ... To me the object looks crisp. I've put out some videos that show an F-18, trainer jet, stuff like that flying in the sky. And you can see, even at a great distance, that it's a jet." Source-
Mick West misrepresenting
www.metabunk.org...
However, this FLIR expert does not agree with the jet exhaust/glare rotation hypothesis. Here is an interview in which he says, "It doesn't look like an engine to me. It's much too clear and crisp to be an engine exhaust. There's the absence of any type of wings, any type of propulsion system, any rotors, anything like that. And just the way that it turns to the left and it doesn't vary its heat signature, its original shape, just the way that it rotates like that- I'm thinking it's very coarse... it's coarsely rotating. It doesn't look natural like a plane would bank or roll, that kind of thing. So I can only give you an opinion, but from what I've seen it looks very odd and atypical of what I normally see in the everyday sky. ... To me the object looks crisp. I've put out some videos that show an F-18, trainer jet, stuff like that flying in the sky. And you can see, even at a great distance, that it's a jet." Source-
Mick West misrepresenting
"I'm pretty sure I the object is not out of focus, due to the clouds being in focus in the background. I'm pretty sure I told Mick that, but he ran with the defocused theory and assumed he solved the mystery behind the Gimbal video. I might not have worked on that particular model of FLIR (ATFLIR) but the designs I've seen from different manufacturers are relatively the same. I started out many months ago talking to Mick about the videos and I started trying out some of his theories on the equipment in the shop. Smudge on the window, internal rotation, etc. None of them matched up. One day I'm recording an F/A-18 and I notice that it looks slightly similar to the Gimbal object when it's defocused, but it's obvious it's a jet engine. I showed Mick, who asked to use the footage, then called it case closed. I explained the video was actually meant to debunk the notion it was a jet, but he didn't care. From there, communication broke down between us. To be fair I've stated I don't know what it is, but it certainly doesn't look like a jet exhaust. I can admit there's a possibility that it might be something simple and explainable, but I'm not seeing that from the video."
www.metabunk.org...
edit on 14-9-2019 by celltypespecific because: (no reason given)