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Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...

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posted on Jul, 4 2019 @ 11:24 AM
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A convoluted tale to be sure, but always worth digging deeper into I personally believe.


Therefore, we find it quite strange that a senior CIA official — Ronald S. Pandolfi — would release a discussion with a former CIA official — Christopher Kit Green — of possible espionage using UFO tales as a cover story by a New Mexico law enforcement officer — Rick Doty. (See this New Mexico State Police document.)

Here we present a sampling of the email exchange provided to our sources by Pandolfi in September 2006:


Samples below. Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green experiencing "False Memory Syndrome"---is that psych speak for lying?


From: Ronald Pandolfi [mailto:rspandolfi@cox.net]
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 9:12 PM
To: ‘caryn anscomb’; ‘Green, Christopher’; ‘Dan Smith’
Subject: RE: FMS?

Kit,

I really appreciate your response. Part of the problem is that Dan imposes a dimensional shift in his reporting of my conversations. Indeed I did raise the issue of you having some form of false memory syndrome and then did a superficial review with some of our mutual friends to reject this hypothesis.

As you know, my analytical approach is to include as wide a range of initial hypotheses as possible, eliminate those that can be treated superficially or linearly, and then focus on those that require more complex parallel analyses. Dan shifted the focus from the complex possibilities to the superficial impossibilities.

For example it is just as clear that you are not suffering from some sort of false memory syndrome as it is that a delegation of Americans did not visit a distant plant. [sic] [covert plant? or planet?]

Ron

—– Original Message —–
From: Ronald Pandolfi
To: ‘RICK DOTY’
Cc: Christopher Green
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 12:47
Subject: RE: Keep me out of this

Rick,

There is no need for you to communicate further with me unless you agree to cooperate, and even then you should be addressing your e-mails to Dr. Green who agreed to facilitate your cooperation. Please understand you are not being accused of anything. You initiated this investigation when you provided Dr. Green with the names of two people you claimed to be DIA employees. Dr. Green provided me with those names in accord with his normal responsibilities.

There is no crime in distributing the names of people who are not DIA employees. Nevertheless it does suggest you remain involved in potentially hostile intelligence activities. One concern is that you may have been fishing for the name of real intelligence officers. Please understand I am not accusing you of anything.

I have posted nothing about you to the ATS forum or any other UFO related web sites. My only interest is whether you are working for a foreign intelligence service. In your e-mail you state that you have friends who work for certain intelligence services. Are these foreign services? Have you reported these contacts? Please do not respond to me on these or any other questions. Rather if you would like to cooperate, provide Dr. Green with an adequate answer as to why you provided with the false names and false links to John Gannon and I will gladly close out this issue.

Ron



CIA UNAUTHORIZED | Spy Games: The Pandolfi-Green-Doty affair leaked e-mails | Source: Dr. Ronald S. Pandolfi, CIA
edit on 4-7-2019 by The GUT because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 4 2019 @ 11:33 AM
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a reply to: zazzafrazz

An idiot is a stupid person. Continuing to make the claim that a video programmer who has never sat a single second in the cockpit of a fighter plane vs an actual 18 year veteran fighter pilot is literally and I do mean literally a stupid argument.

Therefore the use of the word "idiot" is extremely applicable. If you get upset by this then I suggest you reassess your opinion. You also need to learn the proper use of the word "narrative". I am not pushing a narrative as a narrative requires multiple points that specifically align with a specific belief.

If you want an example of an actual narrative then re-read the OP. His belief is this recent UFO resurgence is all a lie and he pushes multiple points into a specific direction and ties them together to support that narrative.

I am arguing that anyone who thinks a video game programmer has more credibility than an actual 18 year veteran fighter pilot are stupid people.

That's not a narrative.


From another post I made:

Daily view of a video game programmer:



Daily view of a fighter jet pilot:






edit on 4-7-2019 by 1point92AU because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 4 2019 @ 11:41 AM
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a reply to: 1point92AU




Therefore the use of the word "idiot" is extremely applicable. If you get upset by this then I suggest you reassess your opinion.



Again the only person getting upset is you?

I'll skip over your posts from this point on as you seem to not be able to have a dialogue on this footage analysis without becoming overly emotional and insulting because people aren't agreeing with your narrative and assessment.



posted on Jul, 4 2019 @ 11:43 AM
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In other news: Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green tells Dolan he was fooled and retracts his professional opinion of the alien autopsy being real. Dolan seems truly mystified.

For a brilliant guy, Kit sure seems to get fooled a lot. According to Kit, Dick Doty was a straight-up guy and stand-up fellow so of course Serpo might have been true and thus his participation.

The one thing that seems to escape Dolan--and his readers in their replies--is the most obvious: Kit has been the one introducing a lot of mythology and untruths into ufology.

The Leaked Alien Autopsy Emails
edit on 4-7-2019 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 4 2019 @ 11:45 AM
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a reply to: Guest101

West is wrong in his opinion. The background (clouds) slightly rotate as the camera equipment adjust slightly to the substantial rotation of the craft. I pointed this out in another post. If the camera was actually rotating to make the craft appear to rotate then the entire background (clouds) would have rotated the same number of degrees.

Yet, they do not.

If you want to deny this then I suggest you watch the video again.



posted on Jul, 4 2019 @ 11:50 AM
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a reply to: The GUT

Thanks THE GUT.






posted on Jul, 4 2019 @ 11:51 AM
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a reply to: The GUT
Grant Cameron wants people to apologize to Doty






posted on Jul, 4 2019 @ 11:53 AM
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a reply to: zazzafrazz

I have been watching this one spin out. Quite something
.






posted on Jul, 4 2019 @ 11:54 AM
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originally posted by: zazzafrazz

a reply to: 1point92AU




Therefore the use of the word "idiot" is extremely applicable. If you get upset by this then I suggest you reassess your opinion.



Again the only person getting upset is you?

I'll skip over your posts from this point on as you seem to not be able to have a dialogue on this footage analysis without becoming overly emotional and insulting because people aren't agreeing with your narrative and assessment.


Keep trying to deflect from my unsinkable argument. I like it when you run from the truth.

A reminder:

Daily view of a video game programmer:



Daily view of a fighter jet pilot:



posted on Jul, 4 2019 @ 12:03 PM
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a reply to: The GUT

Its quite possible that some of these characters have been searching for "the box" for a very long time. Would it be out of the realms of possibility that they faked some information as they believe it may have drawn some from the "real box"?

That and there are others that are not part of their group, that have probably had a giggle winding them up by lacing the seed now and again.

Dirty Birds...



posted on Jul, 4 2019 @ 12:06 PM
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a reply to: 1point92AU

Uhh Buddy, this isn't the political mud pit.

Calling someone an idiot does not count as a valid argument.

Are you here to discuss or disrupt?



posted on Jul, 4 2019 @ 12:08 PM
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originally posted by: 1point92AU

An idiot is a stupid person. Continuing to make the claim that a video programmer who has never sat a single second in the cockpit of a fighter plane vs an actual 18 year veteran fighter pilot is literally and I do mean literally a stupid argument.

Look, I'll be the first to say that the "professional debunkers" aren't immune from coming up with fantastical "debunks" when they can't explain something away with authority.

This doesn't happen to be the case here. There's a detailed and rather convincing analysis and explanation that would at the very least require a point by point refutation that no-one associated with TTSA seems willing to take on least of all David "Sex" Fravor.

Until that happens the only ignorance showing is your own.



posted on Jul, 4 2019 @ 12:16 PM
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a reply to: The GUT

I don't really buy the Ron/Kit feud.

Ron seems too much like a company man to trash his mentor.

Probably just public LARPing.

Ron, or at least someone using his account at the new OMF, is a guy who as recent as last year defended Hitler because he was kind to animals and said he was okay with some kind of population die off. He also claims to believe his wife is a princess who came to earth in a magical pod a la Utsuro Bune and that we are on the verge of opening up portals to other dimensions possibly using Joe Firmage's magic gyros.

Always hard to separate reality from fantasy when Mr. Pandolfi is around.



posted on Jul, 4 2019 @ 12:18 PM
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originally posted by: pigsy2400

Its quite possible that some of these characters have been searching for "the box" for a very long time. Would it be out of the realms of possibility that they faked some information as they believe it may have drawn some from the "real box"?

When occasionally cornered by real truth seekers with a brain that's their fallback position. Vallee's journals--as you know--suggest as much. It's possible--heck probable--with some of the peripheral players but it boggles to think that the principles (who were charged with national security issues!) are that easy to sucker.

It's a mixed bag of players and motivations but one thing we know: Some key characters have been caught lying and that alone gives pause to any benefit of the doubt.

Imo, this is a long-range operation. Either they're would-be heroes or zeroes. One thing I don't believe: That these birds could keep their security clearances if they were indeed trying to pry and force out information from the government they worked for. That logic, for me, is hard to get around. Whatever we're seeing has the blessing of officialdom.


edit on 4-7-2019 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 4 2019 @ 12:46 PM
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a reply to: 1point92AU

What you, either deliberately or by accident, fail to address is that the video "evidence" fails to show anything that could not have a prosaic explanation.

As Sagan once said, and Mellon reiterated in Unidentified, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. He then, of course, go on to say that we now have such evidence.

Well, the video on it's own, is not it. Fravors, and the other pilots, testimony is compelling, but that's nothing new. We've had much more compelling testimony before now. Father Gill, springs to mind.

What Fravor claims he saw is not shown in any of the released videos. What you should ask, in stead of pointing an accusing finger at people.for pointing this out, is why they decided to release such lacklustre pieces of footage.

That is an interesting question, is it not?



posted on Jul, 4 2019 @ 01:23 PM
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originally posted by: 1point92AU
a reply to: Guest101

West is wrong in his opinion. The background (clouds) slightly rotate as the camera equipment adjust slightly to the substantial rotation of the craft. I pointed this out in another post. If the camera was actually rotating to make the craft appear to rotate then the entire background (clouds) would have rotated the same number of degrees.

Yet, they do not.

If you want to deny this then I suggest you watch the video again.



I’m glad to see you offering a hypothesis.

Why don’t you sign in at Metabunk and join their discussion?

Yesterday, user Gerard noted:


It still seems that the magnitude of the object rotation (which is at least on the order of 90 degrees) is far greater than that of the background rotation.


They are discussing this right at this moment.

One warning: No emotions or attacks, just facts – otherwise you will be banned immediately



posted on Jul, 4 2019 @ 01:39 PM
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originally posted by: 1point92AU
a reply to: zazzafrazz

An idiot is a stupid person.

From another post I made:

Daily view of a video game programmer:



Daily view of a fighter jet pilot:




My point was that it is entirely feasible a computer programmer would know as much as pilots because these people often have to model real world events.

You do know that people who have to program both the simulation and real world software used aboard hi-tech jet fighters don't just stare at lines of code all day I hope? They'd probably also be more used to what the various readouts and displays show.

They actually look at the readouts to check the programming is showing the correct data.

Daily view of such a software programmer would include.



Fravor is an experienced fighter pilot but he didn't even think to turn his own camera on to get a proper video of this tic-tac UFO in daylight instead of fuzzy IR. Elizondo was supposedly head of AATIP didn't even interview the guy until after he left his job and joined TTSA.

It's all immaterial anyway as others have said. The video proves nothing except Fravor couldn't tell what it was. Or at least that's what he's saying.

But before calling people like Mick West "an absolute idiot who has absolutely no clue what he's talking about" how about challenging him as G101 says on his own website with your own analysis. You might like to ask him how he feels qualified to analyse this stuff as well?


edit on 4/7/2019 by mirageman because: typo



posted on Jul, 4 2019 @ 01:57 PM
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a reply to: coursecatalog

I’m afraid that’s not the case. Read the book Ruse: Undercover with an FBI investigator by Robert Eringe as well as Ira Einhorns blog and you’ll see that there is very clearly a problem that Dr Pandolphi has with Dr Green. He makes multiple claims. To his credit Dr Green has never given the same sort of low treatment back.

See also newsgroups about Beltway Throat and Jack Sarfatti. Here we appear to have more scandalous and false allegations made up.



posted on Jul, 4 2019 @ 02:02 PM
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The one thing that seems to escape Dolan--and his readers in their replies--is the most obvious: Kit has been the one introducing a lot of mythology and untruths into ufology.


And according to Vallee, Green didn't even believe in UFOs. Yet all of a sudden he's running NIDS.

The evidence points to the fact that he is a disinformation agent.

They want to spread bizarre UFO memes.
edit on 4-7-2019 by Willtell because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 4 2019 @ 04:22 PM
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a reply to: ctj83

Talking of Jack.


On the 1953 phone call(s) I have a witness. See my book "Destiny Matrix" - also other people got them including Kit Green a high ranking CIA officer at the time


Did not realise Green supposedly received them also?



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