Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...

originally posted by: ctj83
Don't hate TTSA, but you can believe Bob Bigelow, Eric Davis, and Jacques Vallee or you can believe Bob Lazar.

Jacques has made it clear that the Element 115 Bigelow found was an industrial foam product.

There is actually far more to this, but I think that will wait until after Ep 6.

I suggest not watching Alien Highway.

I'm sorry but you've got it backwards. Bigelow is part of the Harry Reid, TDL, Knapp, Elizondo nexus and therefore part of an op and just in it for the money, don't you know. It makes no sense, but I read it here.

originally posted by: beetee
a reply to: Sublant

Well, why don't you offer your own viewpoint instead of musings about how funny we are. We are funny, to the best of our ability, but from time to time we try to contribute some piece or other of information.

So, if you have something to add then why don't you add it? Change our minds. We're open to arguments that makes sense.

You're not doing much to change my mind by your current tactic, whatever it is supposed to be.

So, what have you got to add that is worth something?

Very little to add in the way of new information on the subject. I don't know the truth. I don't know what TDL knows, I don't know what Elizondo knows, I don't know what Bigelow knows, I don't know what the government knows.

I do believe in ETs and that some of UFOs are craft operated by others. I believe Bob Lazar worked somewhere at Tonopah and is mostly telling the truth, but I don't know.

I don't know, so my first instinct is not to ridicule, demean, call names and accuse people of the worst possible motivation every time.

If I have anything to contribute, I'd hope more people would do the same. Namecalling etc. doesn't help in anyway and it stiffles conversation and ideas. Also makes it harder for anyone with new information to come forward.

a reply to: Sublant

Sure, I get what you are saying, but it's important to remember:

- Erick Davis has said Bob Lazar is fake
- Tom de Longe says he's real
- Bob Bigelow started a corporation with him and cancelled the deal when he discovered that Bob's Element 115 was in fact an industrial emulsifier.

So, you literally have to discount what Jacques Vallee has written as fact in Forbidden Science 4.

Ok, point 2 - if you are a physicist, electrical engineer inventor or corporation interested in power generation, now is the correct time to give up part of your research. Bob Lazar states on video that the Element 115 does nothing more than kick off heat (in an allegedly exotic way, but no different than the furnace on a steam engine in principle).

Heat which is converted into electricity via a thermo electric generator. In other words there is no point looking for better ways to generate electricity.

The aliens found the best way. Thermolectric generator. An advanced Peltier device.

If you don't get the implications of what Vallee has written down and what Bob says in his own video back in 1991, I can't help anymore. All I can say is that you should be able to reach conclusions.

a reply to: The GUT

So where is that footage showing the thermal anomaly?

Or is it just another tale with nothing to back it up, another incredible witness testimony...

a reply to: Sublant

Very little to add in the way of new information on the subject. I don't know the truth. I don't know what TDL knows, I don't know what Elizondo knows, I don't know what Bigelow knows, I don't know what the government knows. 

None among us knows this, because they aren't telling. They are, at best, hinting. And what they are hinting is, weirdly, partly at odds with each other.

I do believe in ETs and that some of UFOs are craft operated by others. I believe Bob Lazar worked somewhere at Tonopah and is mostly telling the truth, but I don't know

I too do believe in E.T life, if only because the odds favour it from what we know. I cannot automatically assume that they are here, though, because the links between UAPs and ETs are very much unproven. We might have good data somewhere, but someone is, if that is the case, sitting on it and refusing to share. And that makes me suspicious. Doesn't it make you suspiscious?
As to Bob Lazar, he is not that central to the whole thing. And if he is telling the truth, the same government that is now supposedly coming clean with TTSA as some claim, sure went to a lot of trouble to make it difficult for him to prove anything. Have you considered that he was shown something, that ultimately isn't anything to do with UFOs for a reason? AFOSI went to great lengths to build up Bennewiz's ideas, even placing props and flying him overhead to see them. How hard would it be to create the props to make Lazar think he was seeing something exotic, when he wasn't?

I don't know, so my first instinct is not to ridicule, demean, call names and accuse people of the worst possible motivation every time. 

If I have anything to contribute, I'd hope more people would do the same. Namecalling etc. doesn't help in anyway and it stiffles conversation and ideas. Also makes it harder for anyone with new information to come forward.

This makes me wonder if you have read this thread at all, and the one preceding it? Or any of the myriad other threads about DeLonge and TTSA on these boards.

At first, most of us were baffled but cautiously optimistic about delonge, especially after the Podesta hack, but as more and more people looked into this, it became apparent that something is off with a few things in relation to TTSA.

Anyway, that is what some of us have come to believe. It might even be that the people in TTSA, or at least some of them, are being used in this venture. By others, who want their view of this phenomenon to reign supreme.

If there is even the slightest posibility that there is something fishy with this affair, wouldn't you have us point it out?

Kevin Day went on to talk about certain folks, who he wouldn’t name, that he now has on his side and how he believes this is all heading to Congress. He also described some of the post-effects he experienced after the encounter.

Source

Sounds very much like another US servicemen in the Forest in 1980, from the people within Kevins "Fictional Book" - we can also make a good guess who these "Certain Folk" are too.

The similarities are quite striking...

Saw something inexplicable whilst in Service -Check
Was approached by certain folks (Puthoff / Green?) - Check
Experianced odd things after the events - Check
Wants it all to head to congressional hearings - Check

Whats also interesting as this website is a Pro-TTSA blog from one of the young guns, they don't get into any details in regards to Kevin Days other "experiences" since. I find that interesting and ponder on why its removed / Not Included...

a reply to: pigsy2400

Kevin's " other" experiences are questionable.

Saw this and thought of ATS:

Realistically speaking, there is no advantages in pandering to majority. People tend to do that because when you do, you are not challenged by most from minority that think opposite way. Some do because they think they are cool kids, so if they “swamp” with group, they are stronger, etc.

In reality, most people that live on our planet nowadays are hellish stupid. Like, imagine have 10 idiots unite because they think they are creating something. See that’s logical fallacy. 10 idiots made just group of idiots, but the very material of that group wont change.

They will stay idiots. I could go on and on, but you get a point.

I have personally learnt the most from people that have an opposing view / opinion on a subject when the discussion is progressive and facts/information/evidence/conjecture and or any other supporting evidence for that that opinion is represented by both sides.

With ATS - yeah its like an old boys club sometimes, but hey; you're going to get that anywhere! - Organised Religion / Topics of Scientific Study / Clubs that bring together people with similar interests.

Hell, if someone is qualified in a scientific field of expertise, it doesn't mean that anything that they state in that field is actually correct- they are essentially a member of a socially recognized and accepted "GroupThink" group as an example.

Challenging each-other is necessary; if we all sat here and agreed it would be boring and we may as well pack up and go home. Representing an opinion is fine also, everyone is entitled to one; when one represents an opinion and doesn't include how they came to that conclusion; this is also their choice but the rub is that people that DO present information that considers their opinion and how they have come to that opinion shouldn't also be chastised by those that have one and don't explain the how and the why.

I would add, that most people I have the most in common with here on ATS; I disagree with the most but I also learn the most even if I still disagree with them.

The issue with UFOLOGY and why it never progresses is everyone is far too willing to tell you what their point of view is or what they know; whilst lacking any evidence to back it up. Much like politics should be as Ufology should be; it should be a discussion between people, not an argument.

It is quite clear from some members here and from some of the Pro-TTSA crowd that a discussion is not allowed. You're either with them or your not, there is no proper discussion allowed that doesn't fit into their already complete belief system.

originally posted by: Baablacksheep
a reply to: pigsy2400

Kevin's " other" experiences are questionable.

Questionable Experiances - Check

originally posted by: celltypespecific
Sober interview from a man that has nothing to lose.....

Former Speaker of the house...maybe 3 to 4 more years of life....

"hmmm you know what it would be an excellent idea for me to tarnish my reputation/legacy...and play GOV psy ops games with the public...just for the hell of it." This logic does not make any sense ...yet what most people claim regarding Reid.

Very Sober interview

Reid wasn't Speaker of the House, he was Senate majority leader. May sound nitpcky, but it's not.

The speaker is a constitutional office, while majority leader is not. The Speaker of the House is second in the presidential line of succession and therefore the office differs from other legislative offices. In 2002 and 2007 Vice President Cheney was acting president and Speakers Hastert and Pelosi were first in line of succession. During that that time a nuclear football was with them, they received full briefings on possible nuclear scenarios beforehand and were protected by the Secret Service in the same manner as the VP.

Majority leader is very much in the know, but the speaker even more so.

a reply to: pigsy2400

I would imagine that this thread pulls together people from all over the UFO belief, world view and political ideology spectrum. We probably couldn't even agree on what movie to watch (besides "Mirage Men" of course) or where to have dinner.

What brings us together is a belief that something is just not quite right in TTSA land.

a reply to: Sublant

I don't know what TDL knows, I don't know what Elizondo knows, I don't know what Bigelow knows, I don't know what the government knows.

No you don't know everything the above know of course.

But you can listen to what they say, and read what they write. You can also research official documents and what other people are saying and writing about these people and the US government.

For someone who joined ATS the very day the New York Times printed the story Glowing Auras and ‘Black Money’: The Pentagon’s Mysterious U.F.O. Program you surely have dug into the information that is available to you? Like you just did on some tangential information regarding Harry Reid

There are obviously associations going back a long time with many of the characters involved and their stories don't add up. From the videos, the unofficial documents that George Knapp seemingly stores away for TTSA and even questions of when AATIP began and who actually was in charge.

The associations run deep between some of these people too. Of which a tiny morsel was pointed it out earlier in the thread.

Maybe you don't have an opinion on any of that?

But at least lighten up a bit.

a reply to: coursecatalog

I agree but I also want people to disagree with me and tell me why. It's a discussion... That's all it is and if I'm ever wrong (which I have been) I will own that and absorb thr opposing sides perspectives.

But hey this ufology and maybe I'm too idealistic at times.

There are tons of things to add about bob but some are eye poking

eg something i found peculiar is in the rogan interview,he says that when you stand below the aircraft,you cant see it,its not visible from below or from above due to gravity doing physics stuff.So if thats true,what about that poster he is selling that russian satellites photographed said object?

The way I understood it, is that the light bending or "invisibility" happens only when the power source and craft is operating.

a reply to: mirageman

Maybe subplant signed up that day because of the articles and wanted to find out more....

There are alot of people that did not have an active interest in this field until it hit the news like it did..

a reply to: Sublant



Doesn't the craft operate while airborne? Unless theres something i missed in his interview.Sadly they didnt mention the poster part in the roegan interview

a reply to: pigsy2400

I've said many times I would love to be proven wrong. Even after dozens of false disclosure alarms over several decades I am still following this damn subject because I think there is still something there when you strip away all the lies and distortions.

If TTSA turn out to be white knights who reveal all and save the earth, I will be first in line to take the interdimensional/interstellar shuttle to Planet Zog for lunch and a stroll.

originally posted by: coursecatalog
a reply to: pigsy2400

I've said many times I would love to be proven wrong. Even after dozens of false disclosure alarms over several decades I am still following this damn subject because I think there is still something there when you strip away all the lies and distortions.

If TTSA turn out to be white knights who reveal all and save the earth, I will be first in line to take the interdimensional/interstellar shuttle to Planet Zog for lunch and a stroll.

I think you would prefer Zeta Reticuli 3 - I hear it is good this time of year



As for the rest - I agree completely!

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: Sublant

I don't know what TDL knows, I don't know what Elizondo knows, I don't know what Bigelow knows, I don't know what the government knows.

No you don't know everything the above know of course.

But you can listen to what they say, and read what they write. You can also research official documents and what other people are saying and writing about these people and the US government.

For someone who joined ATS the very day the New York Times printed the story Glowing Auras and ‘Black Money’: The Pentagon’s Mysterious U.F.O. Program you surely have dug into the information that is available to you? Like you just did on some tangential information regarding Harry Reid

There are obviously associations going back a long time with many of the characters involved and their stories don't add up. From the videos, the unofficial documents that George Knapp seemingly stores away for TTSA and even questions of when AATIP began and who actually was in charge.

The associations run deep between some of these people too. Of which a tiny morsel was pointed it out earlier in the thread.

Maybe you don't have an opinion on any of that?

But at least lighten up a bit.

If I wanna laugh, I'll listen to Black on Broadway or anything by George Carlin. What I don't think is funny, informative or in any way helpful is the hundreth time a "joke" about Elizondo's name, t-shirt, cap or appearance. Not because I'm offended, but because it's lowbrow, off topic and makes ATS look childish and mean. But I'm not a moderator and don't want to be, so that's just my opinion and we all know what they say about opinions.

I have a lot of issues with TTSA and frankly they've made mistakes which are difficult to understand and explain. That being said, I want to look at the message and facts as much as the players and their possible motivations. They obviously have a plan and a timetable which they are following. TDL and Levenda have three non fiction books coming out, the second being published now. Last one, "War", will be published in a year or so. That should give us some indication when to expect something from them.

I'm more excited about the Wilson leak than anything TTSA has done so far. I also have a feeling TTSA were going to publish the Wilson memo at some point, after teasing about it for months and then publishing it piecemeal and are now up in arms because it got out. I can't prove that of course, just a feeling I've been getting.

a reply to: Sublant

it has been speculated that the Wilson leak was put out there by the YoungGuns of TTSA, they also sat on it for a while, Grant Cameron confirmed this. I have my suspicions and have a rough idea who the original leaker of the document was also and it is one of the "young guns" who was sharing it around.