Something is breaking in Hanoi

a reply to: Xtrozero

Same answer as to why we didn't just kick their butt in the war...China...

China complicates the whole issue. They have a massive economy but it is a mixture of totalitarianism and capitalism. The government runs whatever it chooses to run and simply looks the other way for some people to run a business. Many of those private businesses are copycats... China enforces Chinese intellectual rights with an iron fist, but other countries? Not so much.

There are several things about China that really make it difficult to deal with them:

• China and the surrounding countries (including North Korea) are treasure troves of many rare earth metals, some of which are rarely found anywhere else on the planet. China has used this economical advantage to full effect: solar cells are outrageously expensive elsewhere because the raw materials are so rare, but they are dirt cheap in China because the raw materials are much more plentiful. Yet, it is simply not possible to buy large quantities of these raw materials outside of China at prices comparable to what Chinese manufacturers pay for them. Finished products made from these materials are not as restricted, however, so all of the profit from refining and manufacturing stays in China. I cannot buy solar cells, even at surplus prices, as cheaply as I can buy solar lighting and remove the exact same solar cells.
  
  China also, by using this strategy, has placed themselves as an irreplaceable source for all things technological. Several years back, one of the major plants in China that manufactures the ceramics used to encapsulate integrated circuits burned down. The result was that IC prices rose almost overnight to the tune of a few hundred percent, and some were out of stock until some months after the new plant was built. At the time, there were two major encapsulation plants, and both were in China because China held the raw materials necessary to make the ceramic. Little has changed since then... it actually seems to have gotten worse.
  
  
• China's mixture of totalitarianism and capitalism means that not just anyone can start a business; anyone who tries must go through the government to get permission. This keeps labor prices low for those who do have such permission and for the government-owned industries, because one who is not in good with the government does not have the legal ability to start a company... they have to either hire on with an employer or starve.
  
  
• The Chinese are a very proud people and are adamant about preserving their heritage and culture. They have seen what Westernization did to Japanese culture since WWII... and how it has affected Hong Kong, Vietnam, Thailand, and others on the region. They fear Westernization. North Korea is a buffer zone between China and Westernized South Korea that serves to prevent the spread of Western values and culture, and they like it that way. The Chinese will fight to the death and beyond if they feel their heritage is threatened.
  
  
• Despite all this, China has a massive marketplace, but one which is simply inaccessible to anyone in the West. Not only are there many government restrictions on who can operate within China, but the domestic prices and labor rates are so much lower than in the West that the West simply cannot compete. Apple has worked it's way in through agreements with the Chinese government, and their willingness to allow Chinese control over their Chinese plants. In return, China exercises minimal control over Apple, so the company can continue to provide jobs for their economy.
  
  In addition, as already mentioned, China welcomes violations of International intellectual rights. By allowing Chinese manufacturers to produce cheap knock-offs of Western products, the Chinese people can still afford a decent lifestyle (decent being relative here) and the knock offs retain a lot of Chinese cultural and historical appearances.
  
  
• As mentioned earlier, the Chinese culture and language are about as alien to English culture and language as one can get and still exist on the same planet. Thus, anyone trying to do business with China must deal with interpreters and business practices that are alien to them. A large part of that cultural difference involves how families are seen: in China, family is everything, and people go to great lengths to provide advantages to descendants not even born yet. In America, we tend to provide for our children as well, but it is then them who do the providing for their children. The Chinese tend to think in generational terms (how will this affect my great-grandchildren?) instead of traditional Western terms (how will this affect me? I won't be around when my great-grandchildren are alive).

In the end, it's not just that China has a population that gives them the largest potential army on the planet, but that they also have our military by the short hairs technologically and our economy as a hostage if they choose to make it one. Add in the fact that Chinese interests own so much of America and finance so much of our debt, and you have the makings of a complete disaster for the US. Like Trump, I don't really blame China; I blame us. We've been too short-sighted for too long.

TheRedneck

a reply to: roadgravel

]It should not be happening but

How do you know NK hasn't been given money? It's not like the US government hasn't hidden things in the past.

OK, that's a fair point. I don't know for sure. There's not a single news source in the US that isn't beholden to the Deep State.

I will say this, though: it would be very easy for the media to point a floodlight on any such transfers, and that would cause a lot more damage to Trump's reputation than anything else. The fact they haven't used that floodlight tells me that the government probably hasn't given North Korea anything.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Yes, the media would go crazy. But then, it could be hidden. I would like to think we are not bribing NK but it is hard to forget an event like Iran-Contra. I do think we are still giving some type of aid, if not money outright to Kim, backed with a stern threat.

The situation isn't as it appears at first glance due to 60 years of "standoff".

a reply to: TheRedneck

Most likely news reached them that trumps lawyer was in front of Congress spilling the beans and they were afraid that it would end trumps presidency so they ended the talks .it was really piss poor form for house demotards to bring a lying bastard like Cohen to testify on live tv while president was trying to negotiate a peace talks with a long time adversary.

a reply to: proteus33

They’re consumed wth jealousy because the President has turned out to be one of the best in memory.
So is their DWINDLING support base.

“By any means necessary”, that fascist campaign motto of theirs, is only serving to drive more support away from the dims. And they can’t even see it.

Regardless, the talks were at least one step taken on a long road to peace and good relations. Which is ultimately what everybody wants. Except the morons of course.

a reply to: TheRedneck

I think your blowing it out of proportion and fear mogering a bit cause your guy didn't come through. Although I agree with you in the sense that it would've been an historic feat if trump got a deal, Kims not as crazy as your making him out to be. He's not gonna give up his all his power over his people and country, or better yet, not have one left, by nuking the the U.S. MAD works just as well for the North Koreans as it does for the Russians.

I don't like trump, I don't think he"s a good president, but I can't give him sh@t for at least trying on this front. With that said, its not like just cause he failed all of a sudden 30 yrs of N.K b.s threats are actually gonna hold water.

originally posted by: proteus33
a reply to: TheRedneck

Most likely news reached them that trumps lawyer was in front of Congress spilling the beans and they were afraid that it would end trumps presidency so they ended the talks .it was really piss poor form for house demotards to bring a lying bastard like Cohen to testify on live tv while president was trying to negotiate a peace talks with a long time adversary.

Or North Korea freaked out over this news of it's computers being stolen Computers In North Korean Embassy Where Top Trump-Kim Summit NEGOTIATOR WORKED STOLEN In Lead Up To Summit - What seems to be closer to reality ? Trump freaking out about Cohen - or Kim freaking out about stolen Computers ?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: TheRedneck

but I had Fox on in the background

Whelp. There's the problem right there.

Do you ever get tired of going agaist the grain. Not once have i seen you agree with anyone.

a reply to: Jg513

Yes, I was replying to someone who apparently thought it would be better to ignore Kim than try and at least talk to him. So it was a bit of hyperbole to counter ridiculousness... at least I hope it was.

The facts do still exist that North Korea has nukes and they have missiles. That's enough right there for me to take them seriously.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Breakthestreak

No. Not unless you believe the Mandela effect is real.

You believe and adore corporate thinktanks with every core of your soul.

Funny thing is...they all KNOW the Mandela effect and many other effects are real...

They just save global warming effect for those who have a need to blame the general public instead.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: randomtangentsrme

A dictator of a country dosn't gain prestige or validation by other countries attempting negotiations.

He doesn't give a crap about other countries. (And when I say "he" I mean both of them.)

Unless you have some insight on how to negotiate with NK without involving the Dictator?

I'm not a diplomat or do I have access to the intelligence assets of the United States so I pay attention to those who do. Trump is not, and does not.

You may want to turn the bot back on, because this is an elementary level reply from someone thoughtful enough to edit 75% of their posts multiple times.

a reply to: sputniksteve

Hey Stevie. How ya doin?
Glad to see that you still think I'm the topic.

North Korean leader Kim Jong Un and U.S. President Donald Trump decided to continue productive talks to resolve problems discussed at their Hanoi summit, in order to bring about the denuclearization of the Korean peninsula and groundbreaking progress in the North Korea-U.S. relationship, state media KCNA said on Friday.

The two leaders had a constructive and sincere exchange of views on practical issues to open a new age in improving North Korea-U.S. relations, KCNA said.

The two leaders saw that efforts and proactive measures taken by both sides to ease tension, propel peace and bring about complete denuclearization on the Korean peninsula has been gravely meaningful in encouraging trust between them and fundamentally changing the distrust and inimical relationship that had continued between the two countries for decades, KCNA said.

The two leaders said their second meeting in Hanoi has been an important chance to build trust and lift the relationship between their two countries to the next level, KCNA said.

Source

a reply to: MetalThunder

Indeed and interesting detail:

The former ambassador to Madrid, Kim Hyok Chol, is today the North Korean envoy to the United States and was involved in preparations for the recent summit in Hanoi between Kim Jung Un and Donald Trump.

Mystery still surrounds break-in at North Korean embassy in Madrid

Ten men burst into the embassy on February 22nd brandishing fake handguns, according to sources close to the enquiry cited by Spanish media.

The intruders then tied up and gagged several embassy employees before making off with documents, computers and telephones. They escaped in two embassy vehicles with diplomatic plates which were later abandoned.

The former ambassador to Madrid, Kim Hyok Chol, is today the North Korean envoy to the United States and was involved in preparations for the recent summit in Hanoi between Kim Jung Un and Donald Trump.

Feb 22 - NK embassy in Madrid (data/document theft)
Feb 23 - Kim boards train to Vietnam
Feb 27 - Kim/Trump summit in Hanoi
Feb 28 - Summit ends early "without agreement"

originally posted by: MindBodySpiritComplex
a reply to: MetalThunder

Indeed and interesting detail:

The former ambassador to Madrid, Kim Hyok Chol, is today the North Korean envoy to the United States and was involved in preparations for the recent summit in Hanoi between Kim Jung Un and Donald Trump.

Mystery still surrounds break-in at North Korean embassy in Madrid

Ten men burst into the embassy on February 22nd brandishing fake handguns, according to sources close to the enquiry cited by Spanish media.

The intruders then tied up and gagged several embassy employees before making off with documents, computers and telephones. They escaped in two embassy vehicles with diplomatic plates which were later abandoned.

The former ambassador to Madrid, Kim Hyok Chol, is today the North Korean envoy to the United States and was involved in preparations for the recent summit in Hanoi between Kim Jung Un and Donald Trump.

Feb 22 - NK embassy in Madrid (data/document theft)
Feb 23 - Kim boards train to Vietnam
Feb 27 - Kim/Trump summit in Hanoi
Feb 28 - Summit ends early "without agreement"

That is a helluva coincidence, in the secondary article it mentions a mobile network antenna that serves that area was burned the same night. Summit called off because of extreme caution on one or both sides? Is there more to this?
Before ATS became politicized ATSers would be all over this. LOL, what's with the fake handguns?

www.thelocal.es... dent

from the article

It was reported that the alarm was raised when a woman ran from the building during Friday night and started shouting in Korean. A police patrol sent to the door.

But when the officer rang the doorbell, a man who was wearing a badge with the image of Kim Jong-un, said there was no problem inside and refused the police entry.

A few minutes later the patrol observed several people, including the man who had opened the door, run out of the door and jump into two luxury cars.

Ambulances were called and at least three embassy employees were treated for minor injuries.

Employees told police that the intruders had tied them up before taking computers and making their getaway.



It also reported that the mobile network antenna which serves the area of the embassy was set alight just prior to the robbery last Friday.

Spain intelligence services (CNI) are investigating whether it could be related to the attack.

The interior ministry spokesman confirmed that the North Korean embassy had not filed any official complaint.

The embassy, which was opened in 2013 in a quiet residential street in the north of Madrid and bears no flag, is not staffed by an ambassador since the last one was expelled in 2017 by the Spanish government in protest over Pyongyang's nuclear tests.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: sputniksteve

Hey Stevie. How ya doin?
Glad to see that you still think I'm the topic.

Hi Phage. What can I say, its too fascinating to ignore.