Pakistan shoots down 2 Indian Airforce jets and 1 helicopter.

Two Indian pilots in Pak custody. Their MiG-21 was lured by two PAF F-16s into an air def ambush. The F-16s made shallow ingress into Indian airspace, dropped bombs, and waited for IAF MiGs that scrambled. Then F-16s turned back, MiGs followed, were shot down by air defence guns.

interesting take

a reply to: putnam6

Don't jump to conclusions. Those injuries are consistent with an ejection on the edge of the envelope.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

BBC reporting Pakistan PM saying both sides need to pull back from conflict and that neither wants to use its weapons. Quite ironic being that his own security services engineered this crisis by exporting terror against India and getting the ultimate response

The thing is, it would be no great surprise if the Pakistan PM, Imran Khan, was not in full control of Pakistan's Armed Forces or not aware of all the terrorist groups in operation within Pakistani borders.

Elements within Pakistan's military have in the past acted quite independent to the control and wishes of Pakistan's elected officials.
It is known that there are large numbers of extremist sympathisers and activists within the military.

Unfortunately Khan has no option but to support Pakistan's military otherwise there would be a real likelihood of yet another military coup, and that could prove disastrous for all concerned.

originally posted by: vonclod
Not good, very dangerous games being played.

I think we should see how this plays out.

As Augustus has pointed out quite recently, should there be a thermonuclear exchange near India, the EMP's may take out the call centers.

All I'm saying is this situation might prove to be a mixed bag.

originally posted by: JIMC5499
a reply to: putnam6

Don't jump to conclusions. Those injuries are consistent with an ejection on the edge of the envelope.

True only speculation at this point hope you are correct, we will see how he is treated later. I know every situation is different, but mistreatment wouldn't be unheard of

a reply to: Freeborn

Yeah know where you are coming from there, the military is probably not under Khan's full control. Elements within it that are basically out of control from central government. Must be a nightmare scenario for him as no doubt groups akin to ISIS will have infiltrated the Pakistani military and looking for a new holy war against infidels. Khan is a Pathan and they according to my Kashmiri mate are the big trouble makers in the region, he reckons when they got nobody else to fight they just fight amongst themselves lol the just love fighting that much

originally posted by: CriticalStinker

originally posted by: vonclod
Not good, very dangerous games being played.

I think we should see how this plays out.

As Augustus has pointed out quite recently, should there be a thermonuclear exchange near India, the EMP's may take out the call centers.

Total classic

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

It helps to look at the glass as half full.

originally posted by: carewemust
I had an Indian colleague at work try to explain why India and Pakistan hate each other. It's rooted in some 5,000 year old territorial rights...or something like that.

It is basically like a gang war. You ask gang bangers why they don't like some other set and most couldn't tell you why other than their homie got killed. The reasons for the disagreement have been long forgotten and both sides just aren't mature enough to live and let live.

Of the two countries, India is the most civilized (and that ain't saying much as the bar is quite low) by a long shot. Pakistan like most of the other 'stans is an armpit.

a reply to: carewemust

Pakistan is an Islamic nation. Their directive is to kill or convert the "non believer" Indians and others.

Incredible anybody allowed these erratic and overly emotional nut jobs to have nuclear weapons.

We all know Eisenstein's famous quote.

I would hope cooler heads prevail. In the event of a crisis of nuclear war I really don't have faith that Trump would know how to handle the situation. The commander and chief is a ding dong. I doubt he would have the ability of rationalize the situation.

originally posted by: wantsome
We all know Eisenstein's famous quote.

I would hope cooler heads prevail. In the event of a crisis of nuclear war I really don't have faith that Trump would know how to handle the situation. The commander and chief is a ding dong. I doubt he would have the ability of rationalize the situation.

There’s really no passing or failing for a POTUS in nuclear war, once the ball is rolling the outcome is always the same.

originally posted by: BigDave-AR

originally posted by: wantsome
We all know Eisenstein's famous quote.

I would hope cooler heads prevail. In the event of a crisis of nuclear war I really don't have faith that Trump would know how to handle the situation. The commander and chief is a ding dong. I doubt he would have the ability of rationalize the situation.

There’s really no passing or failing for a POTUS in nuclear war, once the ball is rolling the outcome is always the same.

If either of these nut jobs decide to go nuclear I'm sure we have the ability put an end to it. I'm sure the US knows where Pakistanis weapons are. We could destroy them.

a reply to: JBurns

How could anyone war if only some had weapons?
The weapons and training are supplied so that the games can happen..... it is all set up.

a reply to: wantsome

Its always been my understanding that the US knows exactly where Pakistan's nuclear weapons are and has contingency plans in place ready to remove/dismantle them if there is any real danger they'll fall into extremists hands or be used in a pre-emptive strike against another nation.

I'd be amazed if Russia and China don't have similar plans too.

Both Russia and China seem to be trying to broker a diplomatic solution, the Indian Foreign Minister has met with her Russian and Chinese counterparts to discuss this situation.

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: carewemust

Pakistan is an Islamic nation. Their directive is to kill or convert the "non believer" Indians and others.

Incredible anybody allowed these erratic and overly emotional nut jobs to have nuclear weapons.

What an utterly ignorant comment to make, because they are an Islamic country its their objective...you have been watching too many movies mate. What about us westerners and the armies from the US, UK and Europe? To the foreigners the west could look like a bunch of Christians crazy with blood lust bent on taking over the world.

The conflict between India and Pakistan has been going on for a long time and India is full of hard lined fascists in the government and I am sure Pakistan has its share as well - the US has not say on who can and can't be a super power, as much as it tries to screw things up.

We have a lot to answer for stoking the flames in that region and I would not be surprised if the apartheid regime had a hand in fanning those flames.

It was declared by a UK parliamentarian today on parliament live that its not just planes , but artillery engagements !

a reply to: old_god

What about us westerners and the armies from the US, UK and Europe? To the foreigners the west could look like a bunch of Christians crazy with blood lust bent on taking over the world.

But look at all the freedom we all used to export.

originally posted by: Qboneq
a reply to: Agit8dChop



India like the Israel always was/still is aggressor entity. Penetrating neighbourhood air space disregards of international norms and agreements, they were always did this sort of crap for decades, no surprise to anyone old enough to remember their crappy politics on everything.


I am glad that this time they stood against them firmly.

What a load of tripe.

Pakistan have being given safe refuge to terrorists.

Hell they helped his bin laden!

originally posted by: old_god
What an utterly ignorant comment to make, because they are an Islamic country its their objective...you have been watching too many movies mate.

In what way was it ignorant? Are you seriously going to try to claim that the goal of the Islamic ideology is not a one world Islamic State? Or that 90+% of all Muslims fully support this goal, including Jihad (even if they claim they oppose it, which is what their ideological documents and writings not only condone, but encourage)?