The rise of Socialism and it's appeal to young people is troubling

Agreed. There's nothing good about crony-capitalism. But socialism will NOT fix it. Not even under the guise of "Democratic socialism". All that means is people vote for socialist policies. Fantastic. But we live in a democratically ELECTED REPUBLIC.

Capitalism isn't the culprit here. Let's be clear, there is a HUGE difference between crony-capitalism and what real capitalism should be. The only answer is to remove the relationships between corporations and government via corporate lobbyism, super-pacs and fake money printed by the FED to keep the corruption rolling.

Return to a gold standard, and remove corporate relations with government, privatize education and healthcare, causing more price competition and better services and we have a genuine solution.

Anyone who thinks socialism is a cure for anything needs some history lessons. All Bernie Sanders is trying to say is that socialist policies are OK as long as we vote for it. IE socialism. Period. But I say let's do it. Especially the way Sweden did it, as a small country! They're slated already to be a third world country because socialism barely can survive in small countries but countries with open border policies? Dead in 20 years at best.

Let the young doom our country. What I don't understand though is where the Hell is my generation on this? We went from boomers to millenials. What about Gen X? Hello? There's a whole other generation here before we should start giving power to millenials.

a reply to: Wookiep

We don't have capitalism if we did we wouldn't have spent trillions of dollars on banks and corporate bailouts

So save the work hard and get ahead capitalist bull# for simple minds who are uneducated

a reply to: toysforadults

I didn't say we did. I said we have crony-capitalism. Did you pay attention? That's not good. So you think socialism is the answer? If so, good luck!

The main problems with conservative philosophy is that it's not grounded in reality

We don't have anything even closely resembling capitalism

People aren't lazy they work hard do everyone a favor and go ahead actually present a data base argument such how many hours on average are people working

Inflation is putting everyone out of their savings houses cars it has nothing to do with personal responsibility and working longer hours

You guys have your head so far up your ass with these platitudes not a single one of you ever presents an argument based on data

hbr.org...

43% of work martyrs were Millennials, compared with just 29% of overall survey respondents. Millennials were also more likely to want to be seen as work martyrs than older workers; specifically, 48% of Millennials wanted their bosses to see them that way, while only 39% of Gen X did and 32% of Boomers did. 35% of Millennials thought it was good to be seen as a work martyr by colleagues, while only 26% and 20% of X’s and Boomers agreed, respectively

Platitudes, rhetoric, ideas but not facts. Bunch of ignorance coming from conservatives and you guys are about to pay at the pollls.

a reply to: Wookiep


Not me 8 think ending the fed is the answer but guess what most people don't

Shut up and work hard aintn going to work promise you that

a reply to: Wookiep

I agree with a lot of what you say.

It's ultimately a semantics issue, I think. Years of propaganda have created this idea that "socialism" is a dirty, evil word. There's a lot of reason for that. The socialist communist regimes of the 20th century created some of the worst horrors of the 20th century. But that's not what anyone wants...

All democratic socialists (like me and Bernie) are calling for is for reasonable policies that help the American people, expansions on programs that already exist. Things like Medicare for all, or free state college tuition aren't any more socialist than what already is in the system.

And it's not just Sweden, but all of Scandinavia, Germany, the UK, France, Japan, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and even Israel have implemented so-called "socialist" policies - like some form of Universal Healthcare - why can't we?

I def agree that Gen X deserves to have a stronger voice in all this!

a reply to: toysforadults

So if we DID have something resembling real capitalism, would you support it? Cause that's the real crux of the debate here. Or would you support the socialism option anyway?

a reply to: VoiceOfTheEmperor

While I disagree with you on the healthcare debate (I subscribe to Ron Paul's privatisation always causes lower costs and better care due to competition), your post contains a lot of common sense.

Unfortunately no... Not ALL "democratic socialists" subscribing to the Bernie method think like you. MANY want real socialism and aren't afraid to admit it. Hell, the fringe is even calling for out-right communism at this point.

I didn't consider myself right until the left pushed me there. Their methods are so extreme, they'd prolly call me "alt-right". But I haven't changed a thing about my political stance when I got super involved in politics in 2011. I think it says a lot about ATS too. And just people in general, mostly those whom always find themselves defending Trump as well.

a reply to: toysforadults

a reply to: Wookiep

Right, we don't even have a capitalist system atm; it's a mixed economy. I am all for the free market and capitalism, as long as we regulate monopolies and corruption and the like, I think it's the best we've got. Getting rid of the FED would go a long way.

a reply to: Wookiep

Well, we can just agree to disagree! No problem there. I would further argue though, that Medicare for all doesn't end privatization, and would continue to encourage competition. The only difference is we all share each bill.

Maybe not all, but I don't know anyone calling for literal communism in my social-political circles, lol. I don't doubt it exists, but I'd say it's about as rare as white supremacists on the right.

I'll admit that both sides have become more extreme, and I think that many on the left would say the same thing you are: that they were pushed further to the left by the extreme antics of those on the right. Who knows? I think there's some truth to both perspectives. Both sides are letting the fringes take the lead, and people on both sides need to do their part to reign in the extremists.

Overall, I think there's room for discussion still, and as long as both sides can sit down and talk there is hope for compromise and reaching middle-ground.

originally posted by: VoiceOfTheEmperor
a reply to: toysforadults

a reply to: Wookiep

Right, we don't even have a capitalist system atm; it's a mixed economy. I am all for the free market and capitalism, as long as we regulate monopolies and corruption and the like, I think it's the best we've got. Getting rid of the FED would go a long way.

We agree! Common sense goes a long way. Everyone needs more of it.

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek
a reply to: neoholographic

A socialism movement seems to be the legacy of unbridled capitalism. When 1% of the world holds 50% or more of the world's wealth and student debt is piling up, with no end in sight...coupled with the polluting of the world and the destruction of natural resources...well, what do you expect? Do you expect them to embrace the status quo?

So much truth to this. Indeed, when faced with the excesses of capitalism where is there to go? The deeper issue is that today's business world is not capitalism, it's corporate cronyism (i.e. Neofascism). It is the wedding of state and corporate interests to benefit only themselves. This is a dangerous situation since human beings are obviously left out of the equation.

The old systems have been done over and over. It is time for some truly novel ideas about how to manage society and economy with fairness and opportunity for all. The first principle that needs applying is limited power. Every government seems to overstep that invisible boundary at some point never to return again to the other side of sanity.

a reply to: VoiceOfTheEmperor

I'm fine with agreeing to disagree on healthcare (and education), but we have common ground. You seem like a moderate or "classic" democrat to me. But I'm not sure you understand just how far the left is going. In a couple years, you just might be called a right-wing Nazi! :p

originally posted by: Xtrozero

In the mean time your bud who became a plummer apprentice with OJT was making 140k a year by the age of 25 with zero debt...

If the person wanted to become a plumber, that is positive. Although, just making the choice to have a job, which makes good money, but one has no interest in, is pointless choice. It is all dependent on the personal preferences of the person, where the passion lies.

University is not just about learning, it is about understanding, research, drawing conclusions. Experience itself rarely outweighs true understanding. I recently had interview for an electrical engineering position with an electrician with over 10 years of experience at the age of 29. He was fast,knew exactly how to choose components and when to use them, although when I asked him why, he was not able to explain himself. He just knew it, because he had done the same thing so many times. Eventually, he did not get hired because of that. Experiences comes in time, but the person needs to have understanding of the theory as well. University graduates do not have the experience that person had and can not answer the questions as fast, but if given some time, they are generally able to calculate the answer or at least explain theoretically how they would find it. The thinking process, how they draw conclusions, shows a lot about a person.

Anybody thinks nowadays, they are able to learn something just by passing an online course, watching videos or just doing a couple of week intensive crash course. Generally, these self-taught experts are the worst candidates ,even for entry level positions,and usually not the brightest bulbs in the box.

Any STEM field University program from a good university gives significantly more background in higher level math, statistics, research - skills which self-taught people usually do not have. University does not give all the practical skills necessary, but the backbone to build these skills on, to build experience on, not even speaking of the other benefits university has.

a reply to: Cabin

Plumbers average 50k a year I'm sure journeyman in most states union pays 28 and probably more in major cities

Total nonsense just check Glassdoor. Don't trust partisan hacks for facts

a reply to: Wookiep

Its easy stop bailouts and inflationary monetary policy. If the business requires government aid it closes

We will have real asset values a true capitalist market

I'm also pro ending all social policy at it forces the hand of the market to provide quality jobs are cheap housing

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: headorheart

Is it not working for them or are they not working for it? How many of them expected to instantly leave college and make six figures and step into their own shiny, new McMansions? How many of them didn't realize that everyone works their way up in the world from zero?

From zero? You do realize that "expecting to instantly leave college and make six figures" is accurately describing the situation of young ones with wealthy parents, right? Young ones whose fathers often did not work for their wealth either but inherited it? And then inherited it mostly not from a person that worked for his money, but a person that used his money to puppeteer other workers?

Work, to me, is actually producing something YOURSELF, like labourers do, it's not sitting in an airconditioned office wearing an expensive suit and bossing others around, or usingother folks labour to make huge profits, whilst trying to pay them just enough to survive.

In a banana republic like the one that the US now rapidly seems to become - such a sad thing - with an ape as a leader and peanuts for the workers, it's no wonder the youth, the FINE youth, thank God, is turning to age-old values. Values, BTW, that were properly listed in your Declaration of Independence, and that were actually more Socialist than anything else in your country.

a reply to: VoiceOfTheEmperor

Sweden is a very bad example on Socialism, Mixed system. Norway, Denmark or Finland, Schweiz as better examples than Sweden as a country who are creating good policy. Sweden is in some areas more crony capitalist than the US. The new pension system forces the citizen to play around with their money on the stock market creating a boom for the banks in fees for the middle class.

Sweden is taking the worst of both worlds of socialism vs capitalism. Sweden where I live is a very bad example on limiting the Power Pyramid. The politicians in Sweden are totally in sync with the banks destroying the middle class.

We have a large portion of companies that live on selling services to the government. Voting makes no difference. When you vote left they take more loans to spend that will later be repaid in higher taxes by the middle class or lesser benefits to the system you paid into. Only small companies pay taxes. The big ones get expertise on how to avoid it. When you vote right they deregulate and cost go up (housing).

They create systems of education (that do not cost for the student) that limit the supply of workers that make sure there are not enough doctors and electricians while creating more programmers than needed.

Sweden sold out state companies that had built up telephone communication and electricity in Sweden. It became cheaper to call so for once the free market responded as capitlists say it should. Electricity went the opposite way. Cost more and less thought about how to build the electric system that will be more prone to failure.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

and a bunch of right wing pricks demanding everyone but them live with a lesser standard of life

it's always the people not living under that standard telling others that's all they deserve

a reply to: toysforadults

People deserve what they EARN, and people are NOT entitled to the fruits of labor their neighbors EARNED.

Don't like it.

Do something about it.

Instead of using the bold face force of the state to give you what you DIDN'T earn.