Trans Activism and Your Red Line

This thread is inspired by the many many ATSers who repeatedly express that they have nothing against transgender persons, and they are happy to live and let live, until Trans Activists cross a red line. Let's focus on how transgender "rights" are being legislated and codified and regulated to the detriment of others -- and themselves. Let's discuss -- and resolve! -- those Red Lines, particularly in a political and legal context.

As free citizens of free nations -- and I'm pretty sure most of us are -- we realize that people are free to do what they will for themselves and by themselves (and/or with other consenting adults) without interference. Most of us are quite happy to live and let live. Most of us would rather put our time and energy into things that benefit us and make us happy... not worry about what everyone else is doing. Likewise, many/most of us don't worry ourselves about transgender persons unless and until they impose their will on us in detrimental and even destructive ways, using color of law and the barrel of a gun to persecute "offenders" -- both civil and criminal.

Too often, though, when these issues are brought up, discussions quickly degenerate into any and all objections or concerns being "transphobic," with no real thought or consideration of the valid issue being expressed. And that's exactly how Trans Activists want it. They don't want anyone saying anything that deviates from their script... and their demands on the rest of us. This even includes their fellow transsexuals, and much of the "LGB" community. Trans Activists have been too successful in silencing too many people in the worst ways. We have the opportunity to do better, and I really hope we can make the most of it. Let's make it a positive, proactive and constructive thread, with real issues and solutions.

What is your Red Line and what is your solution? I'll start. I have two in particular:

1. Self-ID, which allows any man to "identify" as a woman anytime and anywhere, including violent sexual predators, and granting access to victims in private and vulnerable single-sex spaces. There is an established process for diagnosing and treating the truly gender dysphoric, virtually always homosexual (or, at least, non-heterosexual). But this process is being undermined by the autogynephiles -- heterosexual men who are indulging a sexual fetish -- and their gender "euphoria." And it is these autogynephiles who also retain the same (or greater) patterns and rates of violence and sexual crimes against women. It is unacceptable and unconscionable to grant any predator access to women's spaces -- transgender or otherwise -- but that's exactly what self-ID does.

My solution would be two-fold: First, maintain the current mandated diagnosis and process for true gender dysphoria, completely removing the autogynephiles; and, second, establish a third gender option, that would recognize and acknowledge their transgender status, but not erase their natal status.

2. The "gender affirming" medical treatment for children, from puberty blockers and other pharmaceuticals, to double-mastectomies, each with a plethora of permanent negative side effects and adverse outcomes. We are forcing very permanent solutions for what is most likely a temporary problem... Trans Activism and "Gender Affirmation" is Breaking Our Kids

Children expressing gender dysphoria should be given psychological/psychiatric treatment, with full attention to other mental/emotional issues, such as a history of abuse or abandonment, etc. No puberty blockers; puberty is crucial for the development of many bodily systems and functions, including mental and cognitive development, not just sexual/reproductive systems.
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So that's what I've got. What is your Red Line? Where and how is Trans Activism going too far and encroaching on the rights of others? And what would you suggest as the proper solution? Where is your middle ground?

So, an alcoholic is born that way. Trans people are born that. One we accept, and one we condemn....where is the difference?

a reply to: Boadicea

Poverty kills millions in this country. Tobacco and alcohol addiction kills millions in this country. How big of problem is transgender anything. Where I live in New Jersey, transgender issues are just not on my radar. I don't even know if I've ever seen a transgender person in my town all the years I lived here.

We have 320 million people living in this country. How many transgender people can there be????????

originally posted by: theatreboy
So, an alcoholic is born that way. Trans people are born that. One we accept, and one we condemn....where is the difference?

I agree. Alcoholism is a stigma no one should have to face.

My hard line is when I’m expected to believe their fantasies.

You wanna chuck on a dress and some lipstick, fine.
I’ll call you a woman as a courtesy but when it stops being a courtesy and becomes a requirement I’m out.

It’s not even that I have anything against trannies (I feel sorry for them, I really do) I have an issue with distorting facts and also the potential the whole situation has to be taken advantage of by perverts

a reply to: Boadicea

Children expressing gender dysphoria should be given psychological/psychiatric treatment, with full attention to other mental/emotional issues, such as a history of abuse or abandonment, etc.

Already done.

No puberty blockers

Won't happen. Side effects are extremely rare and it is reversible.

My red lines are in sport e.g. ex-men winning against women. I also have a red line over the erosion of gender, thus impacting women's rights.

To qualify. If trans dilutes gender, then what happens to gender equality e.g. employment pay equity etc.

originally posted by: theatreboy
So, an alcoholic is born that way. Trans people are born that. One we accept, and one we condemn....where is the difference?

We don't have any right to accept or not accept anyone... we can only protect and preserve our own rights where someone else's actions threaten our rights. And that's what I want this thread to be about. Not anyone's opinion about transgender persons or transgenderism itself, but where the current Trans Activism threatens or denies the rights of others and what we can/should do about it. Particularly in terms of it being legislated or codified into law.

Such as the examples I gave, like self-ID, which virtually destroys all established legal rights and protections for women and girls, simply by re-defining "woman."

a reply to: dfnj2015

I've met only one transgender person in my life. I was shocked when she told me that she used to be a man. I've probably met a few more and not know it. We probably share bathrooms with them without knowing it.

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
My hard line is when I’m expected to believe their fantasies.

You wanna chuck on a dress and some lipstick, fine.
I’ll call you a woman as a courtesy but when it stops being a courtesy and becomes a requirement I’m out.

Excellent point. This "misgendering" nonsense is out of control. Titles are courtesies -- not rights -- and pronouns are just words. The idea that anyone should be fined or worse, jailed, for not using preferred pronouns is ridiculous. People can certainly request their preferred pronouns, and appreciate those who respect their preferred pronouns, but there is no justification for penalizing anyone for not doing so. "Cruel and unusual punishment" comes to mind.

It’s not even that I have anything against trannies (I feel sorry for them, I really do)...

I do as well. I worry most about the ones who are most obnoxious because one day this artificial and superficial world they've created is going to coming crashing in on them. It does no one any good to feed their delusions and fantasies.

I have an issue with distorting facts and also the potential the whole situation has to be taken advantage of by perverts

This scares the hell out of me. It's a guaranteed tragedy.

a reply to: AProudLefty

Gaslighting? Or just ignorant?

No, they are not receiving the proper psychological counseling, instead going right to puberty blockers, and many many experts in the field have been and continue to raise concerns. The thread I linked to provided examples from endocrinologists. One very recent example is the Tavistock Institute's staff:

NHS child gender reassignment 'too quick'

And as also noted in the previous link, Lupron and other puberty blockers have a plethora of detrimental -- even debilitating -- side effects. Including permanent sterility/infertility, bone density loss, and reduced mental function resulting in up to 10 points loss in IQ. Nor have these puberty blockers been studied and approved for this use, so there is absolutely no clinical or peer-reviewed information upon which to make such a statement as fact.

a reply to: Boadicea

From your own link:

But she said: "The service has really long assessments over periods of time, with the specific aim of allowing young people to think about what is right for them. "We've been under pressure for years from people that think we should go faster and now a more critical voice has emerged."

As to the last paragraph, I don't see that in the link?

originally posted by: paraphi
My red lines are in sport e.g. ex-men winning against women.

That's another important issue. Trans "women" will eventually replace all natal women if this isn't stopped. And it is a legislative/rights issue, thanks to Title IX.

It's also an important economic issue, with scholarships and prize money, etc. Such competitions and titles can greatly benefit participants with lifetime benefits.

I also have a red line over the erosion of gender, thus impacting women's rights.

To qualify. If trans dilutes gender, then what happens to gender equality e.g. employment pay equity etc.

This concerns me too. I'm concerned about natal men who commit crimes -- especially violent and brutal crimes -- being reported as women. And this is happening now. I'm also concerned about medical statistics... ten years from now will statisticians say, "Wow! Ovarian cancer rates have gone down 50%. I guess we don't have to worry about that so much anymore..." I'm sure there are other circumstances I haven't even considered.

This is where I think we need a third gender designation for official purposes.

Women are basically being re-defined in the trans woman's image... and being erased.

a reply to: AProudLefty

Gotcha. You don't care who gets hurt. Okay.

But I am not letting you derail the thread. If you have no red lines and therefore no solutions, you really have nothing to contribute here, and I shall ignore you. Say what you will, but I'm done with you.

a reply to: Boadicea

Add this to your Tavistock article:

The prevalence of suicide attempts among respondents
to the National Transgender Discrimination Survey
(NTDS), conducted by the National Gay and Lesbian
Task Force and National Center for Transgender Equality,
is 41 percent, which vastly exceeds the 4.6 percent of
the overall U.S. population who report a lifetime suicide
attempt, and is also higher than the 10-20 percent
of lesbian, gay and bisexual adults who report ever
attempting suicide.

williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu...

41% is probably the lowest I've seen this figure. It's medically irresponsible and against the Hippocratic Oath to give children puberty blockers in light of these statistics alone.

How big of problem is transgender anything.

Never was an issue for most people.

Until the usual suspects started making which bathroom to use a GD national emergency.

a reply to: neo96

Actually it was Fundies who made it a national emergency.

a reply to: Boadicea

transgender is not alright when you have males competing against females end of story

a reply to: AProudLefty

No.

a reply to: Boadicea

You threw appeal to emotion fallacy at me, not making any rebuttal and not giving me a link for the last paragraph, and run away?

Welp, I guess I am on the right track.