the tipping point

I'm not sure where to post this, in the aircraft or UFO area...obviously i picked here.

I think the reason allot of us are here is because we have seen something in the sky we can't explain off hand.

there are things flying in the sky that seem to defy what we call flight, i have seen things that i would call secret aircraft to things that are hard to explain as something made by humans.

we have watched so many attempts at disclosure and even official video of things seemingly defying normal flight captured on high end equipment.


to me its so frustrating that even if all these things are made by human hands why hide it, but at the sametime fly it over cities all over the world to then have the very people flying them deny it?

the pattern suggests that if they are our then they can never release said tech because it would immediately paint them as liars. And if they are ET that makes the situation ever worse. You would think governments or contractors would be clambering to claim responsibility for this amazing tech as to bring in basically unlimited money.

and that's where i always get hung up.

on one hand i have seen these things at extremely close range(feet) but know human nature pretty well.

if Boeing came out tomorrow and said "hey US government we have platforms that can get to space without rockets, and are not interceptable". the US government would write them a blank check and at the same time display that ability to the world in a way that everyone would KNOW it was ours.

i don't think the government would take the risk with a real ET force in saying they aren't real because they would not be in control of the information.

so where are we?

are all these ufo's seen really clandestine threats to other governments? tests? or something not human.

some people deny these craft exist, and the only way that i can see they can do this is their clear and glaring lack of knowledge or they are pushing the agenda.

what's the end game? where do you stand? and what would it take for the world to finally understand at the very least humans have some amazing tech. i feel like im banging my head against a brick wall going back and forth with myself. even if 1 of the sightings reported are real we humans have a serious issue. either we are already flying to the stars or there are aliens and in both cases our governments are lying to us. not good.

a reply to: penroc3

I've never seen a ufo.

But I got to see a B-2 Bomber fly over once, it was creepy. So unlike any other aircraft I had ever seen. Really weird and different. I could be convinced it came from reverse engineered alien tech.

Otherwise I really don't feel one way or another about ufo's.

It's neither us or ET. That's something more complicated.

a reply to: penroc3

even if 1 of the sightings reported are real we humans have a serious issue

I know you are not a particular fan of TTSA or Tom DeLonge, but let me offer to you in a nutshell what is laid out in the two Sekret Machines fiction books. For me this would be a logical explanation.

There are two ET races using their craft around our planet. They are at odds with each other.
The US has managed to reverse engineer certain technology, and so has Russia.
The US people in charge of the operation have come to the conclusion that none of the ET races can be trusted to have our best interest at heart. We might be what a Petri dish is to a human scientist. When the scientist is done with the experiment he simply throws the dish away.

ET seems to keep their presence (mostly) secret because that makes it easier for them to reach their (unknown) goal.
The US is keeping it a secret in order to hide their efforts to bring humanity up to a technological level where we would have a chance to stand up against the invaders and demand they respect our right to self-determinism.

One way to think of UFOs is NOT to try to place them in a single category, i.e.: They are not all the same phenomenon nor are they all controlled by the same 'people.' Categorization can always get out of hand. As soon as you attempt it someone else wants to add or change categories, so what you see below is not in any way definitive, but only there to illustrate some potential differences.

1. UFOs that are our own aircraft controlled by our own military. They may be ordered to remain out of sight, may be ordered to put on a display, or may be ordered to stay out of sight, but choose to put on a display anyway. You may remember some of our pilots drawing genitilia in the sky with their contrails. My guess is they weren't authorized to do that.

2. UFOs controlled by someone else for their own purposes under the same guidelines as above. They either are 'not ours' in terms of the USA/NATO forces, or they are 'not ours" as in not human.

3. UFOs may be projections and not physical, which explains sudden turns that defy inertia. Or the may simply not be 'manned' at all.

4. UFOs may be alive, i.e.: conscious entities. They sometimes appear to be childish with no apparent direction. Or they play games like the 'blinking light game' with humans. You blink a light and thy blink back? Please! Get real. Aren't we beyond that?

5. We may be causing them, i.e.: They are projections of our own minds wanting very much to have a sighting, so we make it happen.

6. It's probably some of each.

I first started looking into the UFO subject when my mother told me about when she was a teen and was still living in a isolated farm, with very simple people, and they started seeing these "flying hot things", in her words, land inside the forest. Then on the other day when people went up to look they say what it looks like footprints but weirder than ours.

So I don't know, I have seen a few moving lights in the sky but it can all be explained by a lot of natural things. But when my own mother, who actually is extremely religious, tell me she has seen an low-altitude flying ball of light take a land in a few meters from her... I know it can't be explained by what we are currently aware.

It could be black projects too, but I think being fascinated by the universe makes me want to believe we're definitely not alone.

Nice thread!!

originally posted by: KiwiNite
It's neither us or ET. That's something more complicated.

Do expound, we have the time...

originally posted by: KiwiNite
It's neither us or ET. That's something more complicated.

Oh no you don't! You come back here and explain further please. Inquiring minds want to know and us nosey people.

a reply to: Plotus

Probably going the hyperdimensional-extra dimensional, demons, or sentient plasma route in conjecture.

a reply to: penroc3

Why keep it a secret. Maybe the technology is disruptive. Maybe if misunderstood or misappropriated it would be very dangerous. Any govt or scientists in the know would likely agree to keep such a thing secret.

Look at it this way. If you're able to change one of the variables in M=E/C2...then what does that make E=MC2? Dangerous thats what.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: Plotus

Probably going the hyperdimensional-extra dimensional, demons, or sentient plasma route in conjecture.

Being as some of the top Scientist in the world think the Matrix is a plausible explanation or nearly so anyway for how we exist, I will say we are Avatars. We sure seem to have a part connected to an ethereal place in a so far unknown realm.

Thus our outer realm may be imposing in our timeline.

But its not really a secret is it?
I've always said this, there are so many sightings of this that & the other that "they" are doing a bloody poor job of keeping these things secret. There are films, photos, pilot reports and of course MUFON, even a Canadian Minister giving speeches about disclosure.

If its Government top secret tech...again they are being very lazy in keeping it a secret as they are seen all over the planet. If its ET's what are they playing at? Bobbing in and out occasional glimpses and basically doing jack. All seems a bit erm odd to me

a reply to: Justoneman

Interesting. Can you elaborate.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

keeping it simple as comparisons go ill give it a try:

a middle school science student can explain how a nuclear bomb works, explosives crush a ball of uranium with explosives that help start plutonium fission to to start the fusing of a kind of hydrogen.


` Where as a worker at one of the DOE labs can tell you the exact mass needed of U core, how much of and what kind of normal(fast/slow) explosive lenses, with how much of an air gap to allow the pusher to speed up to crush the pit with its deuterium/tritium polonium gold coated neutron emitter at the center of the pit to initiate the high x ray/neutron flux to crush the aerogel wrapper to ignite Pu spark plug to kick the lithium deuteride into fusion.

but even if you have the knowledge of how something works is very different than building the bomb. you need a source of uranium, a way to isolate the isotopes that are useful, knowledge of how to build a reactor and all the metallurgy and advanced engineering to build the reactor parts. than the knowledge of how to create the plutonium and the new Uranium isotopes from the other byproducts in the rods. then you have to know how to form the elements into the shapes and masses you need, explosive knowledge etc etc.

knowing something exists and how it works and building your own bomb(in my example) are separated by a vast chasm.

i do agree that knowledge is dangerous but at the same time flying these things over cities and national labs and other places with much smarter people than myself seems like a contradiction in the people demanding absolute secrecy of these platforms.

just knowing for a fact that they exist might be enough for not friendly players to fund their own projects, that's what i have a problem with. ATS and people who regularly post have seen the triangles, orange(and other color) orbs as well as more 'mundane' aircraft. To me that means China, Russia etc with their state sponsored spy programs and military forces know WAY more then we do so whats the point of hiding it?(rhetorical question)

its like the powers that be are putting on a show for the masses of people who have no idea these platforms exist, and it comes at a great cost to humanity as a whole i believe.


and that's not even getting into the extra dimensional stuff, with that stuff i definitely understand the secrecy as most people in the world would definitely flip their lid or create death cults or some other craziness

a reply to: penroc3

I've seen a few things in the sky in my lifetime, even stood beneath something with my eldest on my hip (she's 30 now) and my ex-MIL at my side, and we experienced some missing time. Whether the things were alien, extra-dimensional or secret military craft I do not know- but you can be dang sure whichever they are that our government is well aware of them and actively tries to discredit anyone who admits seeing them.

I can understand the secrecy in any case. If secret military craft they definitely wouldn't want rivals finding out about them, and if anything other either there are secret dealings with "them" or they have absolutely no control in the situation so if the public found out either and had absolute proof the government would lose all credibility with the public thus losing control.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

I understand it to be that we have a soul that is placed in our body's.

Scientifically speaking, something besides our earthly manifestation is affecting us.

The Matrix concept being we are beings existing elsewhere that our brains are placed in artificial realm with the us of an Avatar. In a similar way, that is what some religious schools of thought teach. Only, they use the words' "body and soul" instead of "avatar".

I believe there is more than one player here. Indeed, there may be several. And this much has been acknowledged. The clandestine community, i.e.: Our Guys, has said that if civilians perceive some of our advanced craft and deem them UFOs containing aliens from space, that's just fine with them. It's in their best interests to allow that to happen. It's deflection that works.

Further, it has also been acknowledged by some of the people who participated, e.g. Richard Doty of AFOSI, that an active disinformation campaign has been conducted to throw off civilian investigators. Doty did it with Paul Bennewitz and William Moore. It was done prior in the fifties with APRO. And the more recent issues with Tom Delonge surely sound like the exact same MO. Greer tells the exact same story. You'd have to be obtuse to not see the similarities in these stories. They have been throwing us the same bone for over half a century.

IMO "they" WANT us to believe "aliens from space, but we can't tell you everything, so sorry." So that means that isn't what it is. There is an inter-dimensional aspect to this that would blow our collective minds, and THAT is what is so scary to everyone. If you knew, for certain, that you lived in "The Matrix," you probably wouldn't be very happy and it just might change your perpsective on what is important.

originally posted by: penroc3
to me its so frustrating that even if all these things are made by human hands why hide it, but at the sametime fly it over cities all over the world to then have the very people flying them deny it?
so where are we?

All we can do is scream at the sky:



Patterns in the ground
Structures built for what
Real the premise
We are not alone
Truth kept locked away
Evidemce, records destroyed
Sightings shrouded in abscurity
Abductions, scarred remains
Comming to, returning from where
Testimony defies all reasoning
Scream
Secrets will survive
Never to melt away
Nothing disappears without a trace
Hanger 18 denied
Encounters called a hoax
All out conspiracy of silence
Skeptical attitudes
Enforced by policies
Denial of cover-up
The biggest lie of all
Scream. Scream at the sky
My body snakes in pure frustration
I feel you watching me
I feel you piercee my eyes
No mysteries closed with open minds
Scream, scream at the sky
Scream, scream at the sky
Scream

originally posted by: KiwiNite
It's neither us or ET. That's something more complicated.

Human travelers from the future sent back in time to try to change the timeline for the better.

WHERE DID IT ALL GO WRONG!!!

ATS.

a reply to: watchitburnThey are not creepy, they are beautiful.