Is Libertarianism a form of Utopianism?

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

I'm not sure my libertarian impulses come from utopianism but more from cynicism. I *know* I cannot trust my fellow human beings, and therefore, I don't want there to be very many mechanisms by which they can have power over my to control what I may or may not do in my personal life.

You read the threads here same as I do. You see all the snide, denigrating comments about this or that aspect of one poster or another's life choice or personal beliefs, etc. You see how this or that poster would just love to seize the mechanisms of power inherent in government to force those people they feel superior to in some way to conform to their ways, their their beliefs or use it to punish, even kill, them for refusing.

So, no, I don't feel that libertarianism is utopian. It's as close as you can come to anarchy without rolling over.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

With libertarianism, you don't need enough firepower to inflict your will on others (like socialism/communism, which requires massive subjugation and a large state persecution appartus to enforce/terrorize those who don't go along) while libertarianism only requires enough firepower to ensure that no other person or organization (aka group of individuals) can force their will/beliefs on you.

With the sole exception of enforcing contracts and enforcing non-aggression principle



I hope we one day evolve into a libertarian society and have the chance to experience the type of true freedom our forefathers did.

Government, especially big government, is indeed the root of all evil. Including those terrible commies who seek to expand said government in order to better force their own will/beliefs on others. Not dissimilar to how things are now. Don't want to pay for abortions or throw away money on BS social programs? Try not paying. Government thugs with guns will come to your home in the middle of the night and do unspeakable things to you

a reply to: ketsuko

I *know* I cannot trust my fellow human beings, and therefore, I don't want there to be very many mechanisms by which they can have power over my to control what I may or may not do in my personal life.

Couldn't have said it any better

The realists among us recognize that being a dirt bag is a way of life for many, along with the stark realization that most "lawmakers" are barely average intelligence and usually have no-to-little clue about the things they're trying to regulate and in any case are merely acting as a proxy of their biggest donors or most influential (read: loudest and most obnoxious) voices. The number of bills and actual laws passed merely to signal a lawmakers virtues, score brownie points for some cause celebre or merely to piss off a block of voters they don't like is staggering and equally tyrannical. Laws should be the exception, arising only during those very unique circumstances where the lack of an act of government was facilitating the rights of an individual to be violated by another individual.

Nobody knows what is best for each individual than each person him/herself

One day this society may be deserving of libertarianism. And only in that time can we realize true prosperity, true peace and experience the embodiment of The Founders' grand ambitions - the United States as it was intended to be, as written in the Constitution (the immovable written in stone rules that govern the minimally required Constitutional government). Of course the Constitution was designed to burden government and keep them under our thumbs at all times, not be used as a line which government flunkies walk (and cross) frequently with absolutely no risk to themselves as individuals

No mob, regardless of its size, has the right to inflict its will on others especially through the use of force/violence. Save for a universal understanding of good/bad (ie: the ten commandments, as a great example) the law has been twisted, interpreted and bastardized to inflict conditions of less than true liberty on an otherwise Free People. Tyranny of the minority by a majority is no less insufferable

My goodness, the founding fathers of the United States would be absolutely ashamed at what this country has become. Without words, the only gesture they can muster being a simple slack jawed look and a subtle nod of the head as to say a sort of "No" but in a state of complete disbelief, disappointment and hopelessness existing at the same time.

It is very unlikely, in my personal opinion, that we "caught the cancer in time to save the patient" so to speak. I'd give the chances of pulling out of this in one piece 1:5 odds at best. I wish I had faith in more than 20% of this country, but history has shown (as our great Declaration of Independence writ) "Men are disposed to suffer abuses at the hands of government until it becomes intolerable instead of acting early to abolish a tyranny" (paraphrased)

Glad to see others are still striving for these lofty, worthwhile, logical, sane and very high minded ideals

a reply to: JBurns

I hope we one day evolve into a libertarian society and have the chance to experience the type of true freedom our forefathers did.

Could you list these forefathers and give concrete examples of the "true freedom" they experienced?

Government, especially big government, is indeed the root of all evil.

It seems to me that the U.S. Constitution defines a form of government. Are the aforementioned forefathers who experienced "true freedom" to be considered as cynical frauds?

a reply to: JBurns

the United States as it was intended to be, as written in the Constitution (the immovable written in stone rules that govern the minimally required Constitutional government).

Written in stone? Written in stone? Pictures or it never happened.
So the Amendments are invalid?

Save for a universal understanding of good/bad (ie: the ten commandments, as a great example) the law has been twisted, interpreted and bastardized to inflict conditions of less than true liberty on an otherwise Free People.

Well at least the Ten Commandments were written in stone according to the accepted mythology of some powerful politicians and lobbies. They aren't quite universally accepted. Minority peoples would like not to be constrained to accept Monoltary toward a particular tribal deity as normal or mandatory. Are we to tear down all of our carvings of other deities? Are we to all take the same day off of work because we all accept a six day creation and consider a tribal deity to be the creator?