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An Ocean of Lies on Venezuela.

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posted on Feb, 22 2019 @ 07:13 PM
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a reply to: strongfp

Opinions mean nothing.

The facts are in the dictionary. Which happens to be EXACTLY what Venezuela did.




Goddamn robot.


I'm a person with an education and some life experience.




Once you start bringing remnants of 4chan into a conversation or debate, it becomes clear I'm talking to a brick wall. And I'm out.


Have a nice day.




posted on Feb, 22 2019 @ 07:54 PM
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originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: Lumenari

Hugo Chavez died in 2013 ... hmmm.

Also, what country can work without being able to tap into the free market? You think they just drilled up oil and let it spill over and dance over it expecting to get money?

The sanctions placed upon them were more than just oil, it was EVERYTHING. And they were put there by Obama, and Trump didn't lift them either, he put MORE.

You are talking as if socialism is black and white, it's either you full in, or full out. It doesn't work like that. Countries still need to make money.


They are currently selling to China and Russia.

Guess you missed that part.

The only part of the market they are missing is the USA.

Which is such a capitalistic $hole country that they shouldn't have to deal with us at all, right?

Problem is that they can't really move product now because as good socialists do, they gave control over oil production to party members with no skills.

I'm currently buying gas compressors from the country as is everyone else in the oil business.

Nice equipment that needs easy things fixed but nobody down there knows how to fix anything...

And you can buy it for pennies on the dollar now.

Socialism in this case is working out really well for this capitalist...




posted on Feb, 22 2019 @ 08:05 PM
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a reply to: Lumenari

As of right now Maduro is more the problem. Not socialism. Chavez made it work. And the US slapping sanctions on them isnt helping. The whole situation is just a mess. What a shame.



posted on Feb, 22 2019 @ 08:43 PM
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originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: MadLad

Then it becomes a moral and ethical issue at that point... are you OK with what the US did to Iraq, Libya, Vietnam, and the like? Looks like modern day imperialism to me.


Not in a free market. In a free market it’s sink or swim.



posted on Feb, 22 2019 @ 08:59 PM
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USA takes down another country to get control of oil resources. Sometimes OPEC isn't your friend.



posted on Feb, 22 2019 @ 10:20 PM
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originally posted by: MadLad

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: MadLad

Then it becomes a moral and ethical issue at that point... are you OK with what the US did to Iraq, Libya, Vietnam, and the like? Looks like modern day imperialism to me.


Not in a free market. In a free market it’s sink or swim.


Just like Standard oil. Forced by a government to be put down, of course once again, the US government.



posted on Feb, 22 2019 @ 10:46 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn

If we're a free market country, should our government be using its position as the largest consumer to sanction and open the doors for businesses?

Should we threaten military intervention towards a country who hasn't posed a threat to make a market more favorable?

Or should we let the market decide?

Keep in mind the sanctions hurt certain corporations while exempting others.

For example, the sanctions included exceptions to allow the American oil company Chevron, along with Halliburton and Schlumberger, two large oil services providers, to continue working in Venezuela.
nyt

Is this how the US government is supposed to operate? Are we OK with our federal government loading the market?



posted on Feb, 22 2019 @ 11:02 PM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker

If we sanction a nation it should be a total cease of all trade with that nation. Exemptions should never be given.

We should never threaten to use our military for business reasons.

The market will decide in the end whether we like it or not.



posted on Feb, 22 2019 @ 11:12 PM
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originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: CriticalStinker

If we sanction a nation it should be a total cease of all trade with that nation. Exemptions should never be given.

We should never threaten to use our military for business reasons.

The market will decide in the end whether we like it or not.





Than why do we as a nation, born out of distrust of elites and powers to be allow our nations agenda to engage in this?

It's psuedo imperialism.

There's a right way of doing things, and IMO, this isn't it.

Not to get mushy, but these are people's lives. I say that knowing you're more aware than I'll ever be.

Look into it, that's all I ask. Me and your aren't hurting, there is no problem with us helping out those who do not share our opportunities. But we should only help, not harm.



posted on Feb, 22 2019 @ 11:27 PM
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a reply to: blueman12
I don't like socialism and socialism doesn't work. That being said, this is just more "oil-humanitariansm" from my government(USA.)



posted on Feb, 22 2019 @ 11:45 PM
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a reply to: strongfp


Wow this is all out typical propaganda leading up to the destabilisation of an independent country. Richard Branson is going to hand white roses to the Venezuelan guards on the border, and get the aid in.....the reporter interviews Venezuelans at the concert crying, 'that people are dying at the gates of hospitals, and children going through the rubbish bins for food". Watch out for Branson's people getting machine gunned tomorrow, I bet he wont get hit. Then their will be a gnashing of teeth to bomb the hell out of those dirty commies. While the trade talks with China reaches new heights of agreement, and the Commie president for life kisses Trumps hand, as if a new love is born. With lil Kim in the background stroking his missile. This is getting very bizarre …….All the while Russian Mercenaries, and Cuban regulars, renew friendships forged long ago in Moscow. Smoke hand rolled cigars and drink vodka. At the same time watching IDF regulars set up a missile battery, a few hundred yards across the border. What could go wrong?



posted on Feb, 23 2019 @ 12:05 AM
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originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: CriticalStinker



We should never threaten to use our military for business reasons.





Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria are prime example for what you’ve just said.



posted on Feb, 23 2019 @ 12:34 AM
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originally posted by: strongfp

originally posted by: MadLad

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: MadLad

Then it becomes a moral and ethical issue at that point... are you OK with what the US did to Iraq, Libya, Vietnam, and the like? Looks like modern day imperialism to me.


Not in a free market. In a free market it’s sink or swim.


Just like Standard oil. Forced by a government to be put down, of course once again, the US government.


Who regulates the government’s monopoly of oil?

I don’t believe in anti-trust legislation. Anti-trust doesn’t promote competition. Deregulation promotes competition, simply by removing the legal hurdles and allowing for smaller enterprises to grow.
edit on 23-2-2019 by MadLad because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2019 @ 05:06 AM
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No such thing as free market capitalism. All controlled by the puppet masters. Puppet Trump continuing what Puppet Obama started in Venezuela.

In a free market, it's nobody else's business who sells what to whom, in what currency, or none (Chavez bartered oil for medicine with Cuba).

In the puppet masters universe, no nation, no ideology, no president or king may have the right to decide how to spend other peoples' money.



posted on Feb, 23 2019 @ 06:26 AM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker

I already said I'm willing to let the commies starve, what more do you want?

I mean, when commies kill their own people its the US' fault. When socialist regimes collapse under their own corruption it's the US' fault.

If we do nothing and let those people die then it is our fault too.

So I say let them all die. No sense I'm trying to be a savior.
edit on 23 2 19 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

edit on 23 2 19 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2019 @ 07:04 AM
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originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: blueman12

TL;DR.

OPEC nations are slowly falling over. Either being toppled, told to obey, or invaded and turned into rubble.

Current US agenda is take down Venezuela, because it wanted to nationalize oil sale more. Trump splits nation, by waging war on media, and pointing out crazy leftys who have always been there just no - one cared, boost nationalism in it's wake. Wall isn't to keep illegals out, it's to stop influx of refugees from a conflict about to happen down south. There is no longer an ocean to stop people from the nation they are about to turn into hell, so what's the next best thing?


if that's true, it looks like Trump is a mastermind with massive forward thinking abilities. Truly playing advanced chess. Do you agree?



posted on Feb, 23 2019 @ 08:53 AM
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a reply to: projectvxn


I mean, when commies kill their own people its the US' fault. When socialist regimes collapse under their own corruption it's the US' fault.


I mean, we helped inflame a bad situation.

I'm not trying to say that country was all hunky dory and then we just messed up a good situation.


If we do nothing and let those people die then it is our fault too.


That's how this always starts when we meddle in Latin America, and sometimes in other cases too.

The CIA goes on, sparks a fire, and then the media and our government start talking about "humanitary efforts".

I know your intentions are good though, I'm not trying to insinuate anything in our discussion. And again, you've seen more as a result of our actions first hand than I'll ever see.



posted on Feb, 23 2019 @ 09:04 AM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker

I say what I do tongue in cheek.

I don't want people to starve.

I just think the rush to blame the US for this ignores HUGE issues with how VZ ran their economy.

VZ's massive inflation problem, for instance, is not the fault of the US. When the price of oil collapsed they printed money. When their currency collapsed they tried to enter the alt-coin market with the Petro coin essentially trying to offload their debt and inflation on to the crypto market. That didn't really work out for them initially, but they still seem to be interested in doing this.

It's been one economic blunder after another with them, but it's somehow always our fault.



posted on Feb, 23 2019 @ 09:21 AM
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a reply to: projectvxn



I say what I do tongue in cheek.


I know you do man, hence why I haven't gotten all twisted about some of the comments, I know sometimes you're being hyoerbolic(ish) as there is validity you're pointing out.


VZ's massive inflation problem, for instance, is not the fault of the US.


Absolutely, and there is no denying that.

As always, I'm walking a line on this one. I'm not going to sit here and imply this is our fault, it's not. What I'm saying is some people in the admin, mainly Elliot Abrahams, have a history of using situations like this for an agenda.

It's not our place to meddle, and it's not our responsibility to help.

If we truly want isolationist leaning policies which Trump campaigned on, then we have to stop always being the sheriff.

Venezuela should get help of some sort, but it should be a multi national concerted effort. We shouldn't have to foot the bill, or the blame, the two go hand and hand.

But Halliburton is getting exempted on sanctions that exist to do more harm to Venezuela... Venezuela is not a threat to us.

Further more, the IMF are starting talks with potential powers there.

This whole situation reeks.



posted on Feb, 23 2019 @ 09:24 AM
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I don't think Venezuela is over socialism at all but more the influence of Russia and China and stopping any expansion of their sphere in South and Central America. Reaganism 2.0




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