12,980 years ago when TSHTF Big time.

a reply to: one4all

The questions are not cryptic, you just don't want to answer any of them, you simply redirect requesting"proof" which can only be found within the confines of peer approved published data according to ONLY YOU......so you are stubbornly trying to establish a status quo....based upon ONLY your version of "proof"....you intentionally exclude yourself by doing this and then whine and cry that no one is giving you answers.....lol....yes the lols are for you Carpy…..but Carpy I am ok with it...like I said you have no where to hide and eve if you hold 5 different degrees pal you are in over your head now....all you can do now is be re-educated.....and that will only happen if someone wants to be nice to you and teach you…..lol...but you seem to be accustomed to taking an oppositionally defiant stance and being the Devils Advocate to shortcut the learning process...and LMAO.....no one here is willing to give you the easy way out.

Do you ever read what you post? That all makes you sound....well, let's put it politely.... a little "odd".

Sorry to mention it again but I do so only because you keep taking the cowards way out but you asked me to post some video proof about stuff and I gave you the Ring of Fire documentary - that you asked me for - so if you are just going to ignore and deflect and tell blatant lies then I'm afraid any shred of credibility you might have had goes out the window.

Man up, boy. If you can.

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: one4all

So, you still have nothing but ranting about TPTB etc.

No comment on the documentary I posted for you on the Ring of Fire, which you asked for?

@54sec the usefulness of the video was outlived.

Do the words "leading edge" mean anything to you?

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: one4all

Where do you get such a precise figure of 12,980 years ago from?

Still waiting for you to disprove the sciences of Geology and Geophysics.

The thread Title.

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: one4all

You mean this "Model" that you keep spouting off about but can't or won't say whatever it might actually be?

That one?

Still waiting for you to comment on the Ring of Fire documentary. You asked for video proof and such and I gave it to you. What's the matter - cat got your tongue?

@54 sec you are given a visual that encapsulates the entirety of the issue.LEADING EDGE.

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: one4all

The questions are not cryptic, you just don't want to answer any of them, you simply redirect requesting"proof" which can only be found within the confines of peer approved published data according to ONLY YOU......so you are stubbornly trying to establish a status quo....based upon ONLY your version of "proof"....you intentionally exclude yourself by doing this and then whine and cry that no one is giving you answers.....lol....yes the lols are for you Carpy…..but Carpy I am ok with it...like I said you have no where to hide and eve if you hold 5 different degrees pal you are in over your head now....all you can do now is be re-educated.....and that will only happen if someone wants to be nice to you and teach you…..lol...but you seem to be accustomed to taking an oppositionally defiant stance and being the Devils Advocate to shortcut the learning process...and LMAO.....no one here is willing to give you the easy way out.

Do you ever read what you post? That all makes you sound....well, let's put it politely.... a little "odd".

Sorry to mention it again but I do so only because you keep taking the cowards way out but you asked me to post some video proof about stuff and I gave you the Ring of Fire documentary - that you asked me for - so if you are just going to ignore and deflect and tell blatant lies then I'm afraid any shred of credibility you might have had goes out the window.

Man up, boy. If you can.

@54 seconds I rest my case and you begin building your Model.

a reply to: oldcarpy

You're asking far too much here. They don't seem to grasp the basics of science like claiming to have a model means you actually have. Working model with which to demonstrate the efficacy of ones hypothesis.

Instead they demand that others create the model for them because they don't actually have one and can defer the fault to people like you or I, the titular Vlar of the Vlar Continental Displacement Wave. So named because of my repeated attempts to engage the poster in demonstrating an actual working model.

The refusal/ inability to actually describe the model in detail let alone cite an actual working model means that they don't have a leg to stand on and the rationalisations and circular reasoning utilized.to prop up this nonexistent model is one of the finest displays of cognitive dissonance I've ever come across on ATS.

So don't expect anything resembling an actual model to ever be demonstrated period.let alone one based in actual science. It's not going to happen.

That's the trouble with faith based approach to science. Faith means you believe against the evidence, instead of with it, until you are confronted with absolute proof and finally have no choice but to concede.

That's why I usually don't do much more than skim the stuff religious people write on sites like this. I'm not going to try and disprove their god. If they want to believe, they will find a way. If it brings them spiritual comfort to believe a (likely) false story, then why would I want to ruin that for them anyway?




But subduction, although certainly accurate in some cases, may not be a complete accounting of all that happens with crustal interaction.

Maybe it happens sometimes, but not others. Certainly the Himalayas are an example of plates colliding without subduction (instead forming a mountain range.)

Perhaps both theories will be found to have been accurate in different situations?

Well humans sure did rebound quick like, as Gobekli Tepe was founded some 12,000 years ago.
en.wikipedia.org...

Right when the first crops started up, in the same tight region.

I was intrigue for a moment, but it was around 4000 years later the temple site was meticulously buried under mounds to hide the site. Where clearly they never got to return to later and undig it. What happened there would make a great film epic saga BTW.

originally posted by: toysforadults
I'm in on this theory for sure

Makes gilgamesh, Noah Enlil and others a lot more reasonable stories to assume they are speaking of this event

The 'Great Flood' stories -from 'every' civilization 'ever'- is a no brainer as each (Eurasian) civilization that produced was the product of river valleys that epicly flooded as a routine. The Nile Valley being the stuff of annual epic flooding clockwork, no less the Chinese entire cities / dynasties were swept under the mud many many times over the millennia. Indus / Nile / Euphrates / China the places the civilizations spawned from their entire realities were wrapped around the rivers and their routine floods (and the dramatic effects of climate change that befell them) in those times. No doubt, the Egyptians entire mythology (religious system) was based upon it, society was based upon it, social control & order was wielded from that religious system, which the royalty's power was built upon, that resulted in the construction of hundreds of pyramids... all that and the stoking of human awe & wonder the world over -forever- from the Nile's annual flooding. In Egypt 'great floods'... they prayed for them to come each year... they almost quite literally worshiped 'great floods'.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

originally posted by: toysforadults
I'm in on this theory for sure

Makes gilgamesh, Noah Enlil and others a lot more reasonable stories to assume they are speaking of this event

The 'Great Flood' stories -from 'every' civilization 'ever'- is a no brainer as each (Eurasian) civilization that produced was the product of river valleys that epicly flooded as a routine. The Nile Valley being the stuff of annual epic flooding clockwork, no less the Chinese entire cities / dynasties were swept under the mud many many times over the millennia. Indus / Nile / Euphrates / China the places the civilizations spawned from their entire realities were wrapped around the rivers and their routine floods (and the dramatic effects of climate change that befell them) in those times. No doubt, the Egyptians entire mythology (religious system) was based upon it, society was based upon it, social control & order was wielded from that religious system, which the royalty's power was built upon, that resulted in the construction of hundreds of pyramids... all that and the stoking of human awe & wonder the world over -forever- from the Nile's annual flooding. In Egypt 'great floods'... they prayed for them to come each year... they almost quite literally worshiped 'great floods'.

Glad you cleared that up, no way it’s ever been surmised as such. Blue ribbon-type contribution.

Less is more.

a reply to: Cravens

Well thats my impression from raw cultural evolution studies that went into the initial work for the first portion of episodes of The Darkest Patterns.

Hard to imagine many others didnt look at human comeuppance and reach the same insights.

Please do articulate how it doesnt add up; how any other explanation could even begin to fade such perspective.

While if you can follow along here, its likewise a no brainer why elites the world over drove their minion hordes to construct pyramid shaped monuments (the meaning of the shape itself that is [social hierarchy, their dominion over the masses]).

Or perhaps we'll just take eons old folktales at their literal face value interpretations and extrapolate such into pure religious dogma?

originally posted by: peter vlar
a reply to: oldcarpy

You're asking far too much here. They don't seem to grasp the basics of science like claiming to have a model means you actually have. Working model with which to demonstrate the efficacy of ones hypothesis.

Instead they demand that others create the model for them because they don't actually have one and can defer the fault to people like you or I, the titular Vlar of the Vlar Continental Displacement Wave. So named because of my repeated attempts to engage the poster in demonstrating an actual working model.

The refusal/ inability to actually describe the model in detail let alone cite an actual working model means that they don't have a leg to stand on and the rationalisations and circular reasoning utilized.to prop up this nonexistent model is one of the finest displays of cognitive dissonance I've ever come across on ATS.

So don't expect anything resembling an actual model to ever be demonstrated period.let alone one based in actual science. It's not going to happen.

Now Peter that is not fair.

You had a chance to build a model with my guidance and decided to not pick instead of adventure and learn.

Academics are all borderline quackademics who were broken of spirit in school.This is relevant in that it has been brought up enough to be commented upon.I do not consider academia to be the be all end all....I knew in Grade 2 that Teachers lied.Once I learned Teachrs lied I did not put my faith in them.Shortly thereafter I realised books also lie,I guess they consider books with conflicting data to be learning-on-the-fly....or maybe people just put un-earned trust in "books" because they "come from the smart people"...... I was taught not to lie....I did not like liars or bandwagoners ....I was taught to find the MOST CORRECT answer to questions...I did not like waffeling an data negotiation.....I realised quickly in life that there are no such thing as smart people just constant learners and periodic learners and that even my Teachers were barely 1/2 full Vessels.

Now I don't judge....so your education and opinions of it and valuations of it are your own... I do not consider us to be peers when it comes to data and information.I do not consider most of the People who I have know in life who followed the path of academia to be smart....nope....controlled...imprisoned....brainwashed....yup....many more things to but smart is not one of them....intentions are good in many cases but fiscal reality created by the Global Control of economics has led to an educational Prison State and it wasn't long before my academic friends had to make critical life choices to seek truths or paycheques.Those who sought truths changed life directions and those who went for the money and sold out to the system did quite well...some of my friends who took the path of academia laugh at this because THEY ARE 100% AWARE of the global lock on data and learning and on generic knowledge and research.....they don't care.....they know how deep things run and rationalise that if someone has to come out of the mess we are all in holding a handful of money it might as well be them.Sorry if that is a mirror for some of you.

So when we discuss this or any topic I am of course willing to consider any data any book any video anything at all because I AM NOT AFRAID OF THE DATA.....however.....I do not find ANY data to be supportive of the bastardised academic dynamics found Globally.....but other people all do......you see where we disconnect......the MAJORITY of people are brainwashed to believe that somehow the People who taught them HAD ALL THE ANSWERS and that any data they ever encounter MUST BY PROXY fit into their perspectives or mindsets......its a freaking joke......they teach you lies and you then discount truths so you can bring them back more fitting lies to the nest.

When I was a kid in school,I was asked by my Teachers to pick the Yearly allotment of BOOKS that our School librarian was allowed to order....I got to leave my class and go sit for a few hours with the Librarian choosing books for the Student Library.....an specific Award was created on Awards night at my school because of me ,one that is still given out nearly a 1/2 Century later....when I was in grade 4-5-6 I had a Library Card for the HIGH SCHOOL in our Town.....I was the ONLY ONE......and it wasn't based on academic achievement because I INTENTIONALLY failed tests for when I had to tell a lie or anwer using what I knew was bastardised data I REFUSED TO VALIDATE THE DATA BY ANSWERING WITH IT...and I would write that on my test paper or I would correct the test and write the true applicable answer......as a kid one of my Teachers who mysteriously had a MASSIVE HOME LIBRARY contacted my Parents and offered me full and complete acess to his Knowledge collection...over 2000 books......so sorry fellas but when you were picking your nose and pulling your underwear out of your sweaty little arses I was arguing with Teachers in all subjects and PICKING OUT the books you were going to be learning from.When I was ten years old.However I do forgive you.I have empathy for you.But not pity nor mercy.

Please don't feel like anything you have done or presented here has even stimulated me.Just to keep the record straight.

FYI there are alternative learning methods that are much more optimal than what you all have been taught.

I used to begin my school year like everyone else....by collecting my textbooks...to me the most exciting time of the year...then with a huge armful of books I would spend the first week of school every year READING THE ENTIRE CONTENTS OF EACH BOOK...because...I learned very early on about conflicting data and how Teachers would pick tactical bits out of books to lead you down a specific Garden path...my Intuition and Empathy told me when this was happening....so my solution was to read the entire book no matter the subject....of course in many cases we only were required to use very small volumes of data from these textbooks...we NEVER read or utilised every word on every page of every Chapter....nope....it was cherry picking to the tenth degree....which was not and still is not acceptable to me.

I knew we were being controlled when I was a whelp.... I am truly sorry for those who never have woken up to the reality of the world they live in.Our very foundations have been intentionally bastardised.

Peter....you NEED a physical Model....and they are available....I do not need a Physical Model Peter......the MAJORITY OF US need a physical Model Peter...you ARE the MASSES pal.

Do not be vain please....as I have repeatedly made disclaimers on the word Vlar in the Title of Vlar Global Continental Displacement Wave Model.....well I am sorry Peter but it is in no ways reflective of anything you represent....as I said before...you do not have a monopoly on the word and it has its own definition beyond your Surname.However the title may remind you of a time in your own life.....when you had discussions with me....but that is your prerogative not mine.Dont worry I doubt the phrase will become a household stalwart anytime soon.At least "I" will not be taking it that far.

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous
That's the trouble with faith based approach to science. Faith means you believe against the evidence, instead of with it, until you are confronted with absolute proof and finally have no choice but to concede.

That's why I usually don't do much more than skim the stuff religious people write on sites like this. I'm not going to try and disprove their god. If they want to believe, they will find a way. If it brings them spiritual comfort to believe a (likely) false story, then why would I want to ruin that for them anyway?




But subduction, although certainly accurate in some cases, may not be a complete accounting of all that happens with crustal interaction.

Maybe it happens sometimes, but not others. Certainly the Himalayas are an example of plates colliding without subduction (instead forming a mountain range.)

Perhaps both theories will be found to have been accurate in different situations?

There is no "perhaps"....everything is INCLUSIVE of the VGCDW Model....because it is a cyclical component of life on this Planet....it is not a one-off....anything that does not fall into the Model is pure BS and in 99% of the cases it is intentionally propagated BS put there to sandbag anyone who wishes to learn MORE than we are allowed to learn.

There are no negotiations in truth finding....both theories are not accurate in different situations....the puzzle pieces only fit in THEIR OWN SPOTS....both theories are accurate in that they both fall under the auspices of the VGCDW Model.

There is ONLY ONE TRUTH ONE PHYSICAL PLANETARY REALITY WE ALL SHARE.....this supercedes in every way personal opinion and theories....and you DO NOT NEED A DEGREE IN ANYTHING to learn the totality of this reality.You need to give yourself permission.

@Bloodymarvelous...….Long ago I tried to disconnect Peter and others from their religious like belief in the data they have been forcefed…..I tried to do it based on hard core evidence....but it is impossible...personally I understand....how could someone educated in a normal school or University really learn any truths....when they have only been exposed to 10% of the available data since they were wee little kids.They will fight to protect their reality and because it is a status quo based reality there is a massive volume of proxy supports available whenever they feel the need to put their backs to the wall and fight anything that challenges their comfort zones.Its not their fault...they have been damaged and scarred.....these victims CANNOT adhere to nor accept hard core physical proof of anything because those controlling them have SPECIFICLLY DELETED certain parts of our HUMANITARIAN HISTORY and they have done it on a GLOBAL SCALE>

The reason I am insisting anyone interested BUILD THEIR OWN MODEL is because by learning this they are ripping and tearing apart their own reality the very foundation of their existance….it would be irresponsible to allow this to happen UNLESS what you remove is REPLACED WITH SOMETHING OF GREATER VALUE OR TRUTH. However as we can see....some of these people are well educated and are as such extremely vanity driven....they don't react well when the very FIRST thing you do is completely ignore and disenfranchise their supposed educations or Degrees or comfort zones...its like kicking their feet out from under them....and in certain cases these dummies leave one no choice but to do this.....the harder they fight the more powerful methods one must use to help them recover but there are degrees to this type of indoctrination and there are morality concerns.How hard is to hard?Well when its the truth we are discussing nothing is to hard.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

originally posted by: toysforadults
I'm in on this theory for sure

Makes gilgamesh, Noah Enlil and others a lot more reasonable stories to assume they are speaking of this event

The 'Great Flood' stories -from 'every' civilization 'ever'- is a no brainer as each (Eurasian) civilization that produced was the product of river valleys that epicly flooded as a routine. The Nile Valley being the stuff of annual epic flooding clockwork, no less the Chinese entire cities / dynasties were swept under the mud many many times over the millennia. Indus / Nile / Euphrates / China the places the civilizations spawned from their entire realities were wrapped around the rivers and their routine floods (and the dramatic effects of climate change that befell them) in those times. No doubt, the Egyptians entire mythology (religious system) was based upon it, society was based upon it, social control & order was wielded from that religious system, which the royalty's power was built upon, that resulted in the construction of hundreds of pyramids... all that and the stoking of human awe & wonder the world over -forever- from the Nile's annual flooding. In Egypt 'great floods'... they prayed for them to come each year... they almost quite literally worshiped 'great floods'.

Yes...this is inclusive of the VGCDW Model....but these are regional level floods not global level floods and the VGCDW Model deals in Global patterning and evidence....it is of course accepted that these Floods happen and generate their own stories....like Pulsewater Events they are not Global in scale and show as such .

Actually genetic research and global mapping shows us that these people MIGRATED to these Valleys from high altitude locations....something much bigger than a local regional flood drove them to these INITIAL incredibly high altitude locations around the world at the same times.

a reply to: Klassified

It has been postulated this is a cycle the earth has gone through several times. Life thrives for thousands of years, is then reduced to near extinction, and thrives again until the next ELE. If it's true, our days are numbered, and the next civilization to arise will consider the stories of an advanced technological civilization once thriving on earth mere fantasy and mythology. They will believe, just as we do now, they are the most advanced civilization to have ever walked the earth and eschew any evidence to the contrary. Wash, Rinse, Repeat

I have seen the "Evidence" for these cycles" At least, 15 times the Earth has been through "Wash. Rinse, repeat". But, the "Evidence" may not all belong to earth, as the evidence seems to have the ability to move. That evidence may partially belong to another "Orb".

a reply to: peter vlar

Instead they demand that others create the model for them because they don't actually have one and can defer the fault to people like you or I, the titular Vlar of the Vlar Continental Displacement Wave. So named because of my repeated attempts to engage the poster in demonstrating an actual working model.

Sadly, you are correct. There are some models on YTube of the Expanding Earth, they are complete enough to relay the physics involved, but lack certain details.

There can never be a realistic model of Theory that is not based on evidence or observable phenomenon. But in this case, if we observe the phenomenon, it is already too late, and the Cycle repeats itself.

But using the word "Cycle" may actually do more harm than good. For I do not believe these Cycles to be natural. Maybe Automated, maybe manual, or both.

www.map-sales.com...

mizmenzies.files.wordpress.com...

www.solidterrainmodeling.com...

maps.maphill.com...

maps.maphill.com...

www.earthbyte.org...

Note....Leading edges....Trailing edges....Note....conventional explanation is?

a reply to: bloodymarvelous

But subduction, although certainly accurate in some cases, may not be a complete accounting of all that happens with crustal interaction.

Maybe it happens sometimes, but not others. Certainly the Himalayas are an example of plates colliding without subduction (instead forming a mountain range.)

Perhaps both theories will be found to have been accurate in different situations?

Agreeable.

The Crust must respond to the pressures its subjected to, there can be no argument against this. The argument then goes to how the crust will react to any given force. And as you point out with the Himalayas, it builds mountains, pressure ridges. But that happens on dry land with dry rock. What chance does seabeds, wet muddy ocean bed have, to be forced under dry land? The alternative is that the crust must alleviate that pressure the only way it can, it expands. And their is far more evidence for this, than the current theory of Subduction.

My choice in following one over the other is not based on any religious views, it the evidence that guides the choice.

And it is the evidence, regardless of what science presently teaches, that guides my train of thought. The Earth has gone through catastrophic events, multiple times in the past. And "Some" of that evidence is in your face. You just can't see it for what it really is.........

originally posted by: All Seeing Eye
a reply to: Klassified

It has been postulated this is a cycle the earth has gone through several times. Life thrives for thousands of years, is then reduced to near extinction, and thrives again until the next ELE. If it's true, our days are numbered, and the next civilization to arise will consider the stories of an advanced technological civilization once thriving on earth mere fantasy and mythology. They will believe, just as we do now, they are the most advanced civilization to have ever walked the earth and eschew any evidence to the contrary. Wash, Rinse, Repeat

I have seen the "Evidence" for these cycles" At least, 15 times the Earth has been through "Wash. Rinse, repeat". But, the "Evidence" may not all belong to earth, as the evidence seems to have the ability to move. That evidence may partially belong to another "Orb".

As in Mars?

originally posted by: one4all

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous
That's the trouble with faith based approach to science. Faith means you believe against the evidence, instead of with it, until you are confronted with absolute proof and finally have no choice but to concede.

That's why I usually don't do much more than skim the stuff religious people write on sites like this. I'm not going to try and disprove their god. If they want to believe, they will find a way. If it brings them spiritual comfort to believe a (likely) false story, then why would I want to ruin that for them anyway?




But subduction, although certainly accurate in some cases, may not be a complete accounting of all that happens with crustal interaction.

Maybe it happens sometimes, but not others. Certainly the Himalayas are an example of plates colliding without subduction (instead forming a mountain range.)

Perhaps both theories will be found to have been accurate in different situations?

There is no "perhaps"....everything is INCLUSIVE of the VGCDW Model....because it is a cyclical component of life on this Planet....it is not a one-off....anything that does not fall into the Model is pure BS and in 99% of the cases it is intentionally propagated BS put there to sandbag anyone who wishes to learn MORE than we are allowed to learn.
[/QUOTE]

I don't buy into the idea of "everything is included in one model".

How's the saying go? "Truth is stranger than fiction".

Reality is more complicated than ""this model describes everything everywhere." A model should be able to describe some things that happen, but random events should sometimes end up falling outside of it, or requiring a revision.

If a model is so perfect that that never happens, then I would say it is "too perfect". And doubt its credibility.

There are no negotiations in truth finding....both theories are not accurate in different situations....the puzzle pieces only fit in THEIR OWN SPOTS....both theories are accurate in that they both fall under the auspices of the VGCDW Model.

The evidence that subduction is happening in some places on Earth today is overwhelming. They've done everything short of drilling down there and looking.

But the interactions between a hot mantle and surface plates should be expected to have quite a lot of chaos to it. Things aren't going to follow a neat, predictable, order all the time.

There is ONLY ONE TRUTH ONE PHYSICAL PLANETARY REALITY WE ALL SHARE.....this supercedes in every way personal opinion and theories....and you DO NOT NEED A DEGREE IN ANYTHING to learn the totality of this reality.You need to give yourself permission.

One truth, but not a simple truth.

That single truth is composed of quite a lot of other truths, piled on top of each other, sliding around, intermingling, rearranging... the thing they collectively form is complicated beyond belief, and whenever we are able to identify a unifiying rule to some of it, we're incredibly lucky.

originally posted by: All Seeing Eye
a reply to: bloodymarvelous

But subduction, although certainly accurate in some cases, may not be a complete accounting of all that happens with crustal interaction.

Maybe it happens sometimes, but not others. Certainly the Himalayas are an example of plates colliding without subduction (instead forming a mountain range.)

Perhaps both theories will be found to have been accurate in different situations?

Agreeable.

The Crust must respond to the pressures its subjected to, there can be no argument against this. The argument then goes to how the crust will react to any given force. And as you point out with the Himalayas, it builds mountains, pressure ridges. But that happens on dry land with dry rock. What chance does seabeds, wet muddy ocean bed have, to be forced under dry land? The alternative is that the crust must alleviate that pressure the only way it can, it expands. And their is far more evidence for this, than the current theory of Subduction.

My choice in following one over the other is not based on any religious views, it the evidence that guides the choice.

And it is the evidence, regardless of what science presently teaches, that guides my train of thought. The Earth has gone through catastrophic events, multiple times in the past. And "Some" of that evidence is in your face. You just can't see it for what it really is.........

The crust could only permanently expand if the stuff under it permanently expands.

I dont doubt that maybe sometimes one plate expands and another contracts. But the total surface area of the Earth should be expected to remain about the same by the end of it all.


So are you proposing that? Do plates sometimes contract as well as expand?

Subduction theory isn't too different. It proposes that when volcanos in say.... the mid Atlantic, cause expansion of the Atlantic seabed, colliding plates elsewhere sudbuct to make room.

Is there evidence that sometimes a plate simply shrinks in size to make room?