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Bilderbergers

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posted on Mar, 9 2005 @ 07:30 AM
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Novusordo I have got to agree with you about the NWO, to all those "Ignorant fools" that cannot see it you had better wake up and smell the bacon because it really is not far off,
It is really weird because this year (2005) has been the biggest year for "Theories" and I believe with the theory culture getting bigger it will be only a matter of time before serious questions start getting asked to the people with power and they will snap just like you taking a dinner from a dog!

I mean just look at anxiety of some really powerful leaders when they are questioned about "secret societies" in public, you can see in their body language and facial expressions, they scared S***less....but what would happen if they got took to court the made to tell the whole world what's going on, personally I think it would never get that far due to the courts are being perverted by the power(s) that is.

A simple test for everyone to try: When a powerful man is pressured you can see the pressure breaking through in Body language, facial expressions, voice tone, voice stability, stuttering and last but not least the eye's when a person lies without thinking about it you can see the lie in their eyes. I have tried it out on friends without telling them, then I tell them about my little experiment a few hours later I done the same thing with same person and it was alot harder to read the expression so the mind can catch on things like this but if you look close enough at the right things, I promise you can see it.




posted on Mar, 9 2005 @ 08:10 AM
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Originally posted by TgSoeOh well Long as they have a good supply of Heineken and I have my guitar I'll be alright, ouch and the wife forgot to put that in there( ducks to avoid second boot)


Yeah forget about waking people up and thus trying to prevent the NWO.. just concentrate on getting your beer and guitar ready. Pathetic. Truly pathetic.

[edit on 9-3-2005 by Novusordo]



posted on Mar, 9 2005 @ 05:36 PM
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Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by TgSoe
Well lets see police are armed, kids can't get out and set on the hoods of thier cars in town anymore and I believe beneath a certain age you have to be off the streets. Looks like its definitlely heading that way. Oh well Long as they have a good supply of Heineken and I have my guitar I'll be alright, ouch and the wife forgot to put that in there( ducks to avoid second boot)



The reason for all this is because the actions of a few criminals and gangsters ruins it for the rest of us.




Yeah I agree totally, the kids needed to be settled down . It had gotten to where you could not drive through any town on the weekends for the teenagers.

My nephew got robbed by a racist black man the other night at a drive thru ATM machine right next to the town courthouse. He blocked him in with his car got out and approached nephews car hit him in the head with his pistol, took his phone and all his money. Told him em he hated white people. Atleast he didn't kill him, I guess he's lucky.



posted on Mar, 9 2005 @ 10:01 PM
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Originally posted by Hunting Veritas
I mean just look at anxiety of some really powerful leaders when they are questioned about "secret societies" in public, you can see in their body language and facial expressions, they scared S***less....but what would happen if they got took to court the made to tell the whole world what's going on, personally I think it would never get that far due to the courts are being perverted by the power(s) that is.


Like who? Give me an example. (BESIDES GW Bush)



A simple test for everyone to try: When a powerful man is pressured you can see the pressure breaking through in Body language, facial expressions, voice tone, voice stability, stuttering and last but not least the eye's when a person lies without thinking about it you can see the lie in their eyes. I have tried it out on friends without telling them, then I tell them about my little experiment a few hours later I done the same thing with same person and it was alot harder to read the expression so the mind can catch on things like this but if you look close enough at the right things, I promise you can see it.


No offense, but I highly doubt that you are anywhere near qualified to be able to analyze what someone is thinking or feeling based on his facial expressions or body language.



posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 12:35 AM
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The reason for all this is because the actions of a few criminals and gangsters ruins it for the rest of us.


Sebatwerk, that's exactly the same arguent that the government uses to take away your freedoms and your rights from you as a citizen. And that's exactly what happenned with the Patriot Act and the National ID card, infriging your privacy rights to the extent that everyone, now, is considered by State as a potential terrorist. Yes, the people is on the process of enslavement, and security is not a valuable reason to justify rights being taken out from them by a bunch of so-called elite. We are not the ones living into somekind of fantastic delusion, you are.

And this delusion was created through years of disinformation and (un-)education by the authorities in order to put you right in the line, to make you a perfect little conformist sheep that will just do anything not to lose his job, not to have his credit rate being dropped, not to let his wife know he's cheating on her, and not to have trouble with the police. Buy, work, buy again, and sell yourself as merchandise. That's the moral order you were taught by the system to have. A merchandise, that's all you are for the people attending the Bilderberg meetings. What is it again, to be a slave? Oh yeah, it's being under the possession of other people, having your LIFE in their possession, and having your rights as human being alienated by the laws of the market.

Ever read 1984? If not, then it's about friggin' time you do. If you already did, then tell yourself that this is not somekind of fairy tale based purely on the imagination of a sci-fi wrtier, but an political anticipation novel written by a man who has worked inside the US political establishment for years, and that it's reflecting his cornies vision of the system that they wanted to create. 1984 was supposed to be titled "1948" back then. But it just turned out that the same totalitarian regime taht's being pictured in this book fits wonderfully with today's Bushworld (or Reagan's world back in 1984).

Goldstein = Bin Laden



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by Novusordo

Originally posted by TgSoeOh well Long as they have a good supply of Heineken and I have my guitar I'll be alright, ouch and the wife forgot to put that in there( ducks to avoid second boot)


Yeah forget about waking people up and thus trying to prevent the NWO.. just concentrate on getting your beer and guitar ready. Pathetic. Truly pathetic.

[edit on 9-3-2005 by Novusordo]



Nah seriously the new world order is like a dreaded shot that needs to be gotten the Heck over with. I'm sick of conspiracy, I believe its all garbage. I'm about ready to throw my computer and TV out in the yard. No one can stop them now, they've gone to far and to powerful. I'm so tired of hearing about it I could scream. aaaaAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!

Now for that Heineken and guitar.



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 06:26 PM
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Originally posted by Echtelion



The reason for all this is because the actions of a few criminals and gangsters ruins it for the rest of us.


Sebatwerk, that's exactly the same arguent that the government uses to take away your freedoms and your rights from you as a citizen. And that's exactly what happenned with the Patriot Act and the National ID card, infriging your privacy rights to the extent that everyone, now, is considered by State as a potential terrorist. Yes, the people is on the process of enslavement, and security is not a valuable reason to justify rights being taken out from them by a bunch of so-called elite. We are not the ones living into somekind of fantastic delusion, you are.


But you need to understand that it's not one particular group of people that is doing this to us... IT'S US!!!! This is the nature of thcountry we live in, and we've only gotten to where we are through colective will and desires, and not by a group of wealthy elites deciding this is what they want done.

The Patriot Act, I will give you, crosses a lot of lines and is not in our best interest. But everything else that you've mentioned is the way it is only because we are the way we are. Nobody has forced us into this work, buy, pay credit, repeat cycle except ourselves. And I hate to say it, but certain laws ARE the result of the actions of a few that screw it up for everyone.

There is not one group out there that seeks to control everyone. We are that group. We are our own "Illuminati". Everything in our country is a product of the people, including the government and its laws, corporations, etc. etc. We, as a whole, are the enablers. If the people were a bit more intelligent, this would not be the case. It sucks, but it is.



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 06:51 PM
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No, Sebat, this country is not directed by the collective will; not at all, not anymore. This nation is not governed as intended, the peoples' collective will is ignored daily for the sake of the countercultural reengineering.

On so many levels, things are as right as a football bat, and it becomes more clear that there is nothing we can do.

I suggest you not suggest I take medication for any mental illness, as I highly doubt you are qualified to diagnose me. Even if you were, I'd not take your zombie meds; I have no desire to be part of the undead, castrated society.



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 07:04 PM
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Originally posted by sebatwerk


No offense, but I highly doubt that you are anywhere near qualified to be able to analyze what someone is thinking or feeling based on his facial expressions or body language.


Ok I might not be qualified to look for these things in people but if you look and hear very carefully you can notice the change of tone in their voice, (sometimes you can notice when people ask a question they talk in a higher pitch).

When people are uncomfortable in a situation they tend to cross their arms (I know this does not happen in some people but most do). Mostly celebrity's and political leaders have aid's to help them with body language so they don't give away they are lying or unhappy about a situation.



Like who? Give me an example. (BESIDES GW Bush)


Tony blair, Donald rumsfeld, Bill clinton, David Icke, Edward kerry and many more.... Basically it's all about acting, Simply put the better an actor you are the higher up the ladder you go. George B snr., JFK and ol' ronald used to be very good at acting out to the camera's and even when people approched in the street these people were especially calm and calculative.

It really is not difficult to see these signs in normal human being's that do not know they are giving these signs away. You simply cannot ask someone to lie to you, you need to trick them into lying then you can see the true signs.



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
No, Sebat, this country is not directed by the collective will; not at all, not anymore. This nation is not governed as intended, the peoples' collective will is ignored daily for the sake of the countercultural reengineering.

On so many levels, things are as right as a football bat, and it becomes more clear that there is nothing we can do.

I suggest you not suggest I take medication for any mental illness, as I highly doubt you are qualified to diagnose me. Even if you were, I'd not take your zombie meds; I have no desire to be part of the undead, castrated society.


You believe what you want, and that's fine. It seems to me that you are giving certain organizations too much credit. You shouldn't analyze things so much, all you see is blurry after staring too hard for too long.



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 08:04 PM
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Originally posted by Hunting Veritas
Tony blair, Donald rumsfeld, Bill clinton, David Icke, Edward kerry and many more.... Basically it's all about acting, Simply put the better an actor you are the higher up the ladder you go. George B snr., JFK and ol' ronald used to be very good at acting out to the camera's and even when people approched in the street these people were especially calm and calculative.


You have seen all these people be asked if they were in a secret society?



posted on Mar, 12 2005 @ 04:38 AM
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Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by Hunting Veritas
Tony blair, Donald rumsfeld, Bill clinton, David Icke, Edward kerry and many more.... Basically it's all about acting, Simply put the better an actor you are the higher up the ladder you go. George B snr., JFK and ol' ronald used to be very good at acting out to the camera's and even when people approched in the street these people were especially calm and calculative.


You have seen all these people be asked if they were in a secret society?


Oh yes, they all gladly extolled their involvement in a 'secret' society, but then sadly, they realized that they had unwittingly ruined the whole 'secret' aspect. Seriously, if you were a globally influential power figure that was chummy with a few dozen or so likeminded folk, and y'all met to brainstorm about how not to lose your grip on that power, and hopefully strengthen it....would you proclaim it from the rooftops?
think about it.
I see no shocking expose in the revelation that those in power are working together to stay that way, and are not too keen on advertizing their plans, as that might jeopardize them.
One friend of mine years ago told me that his Freemason brothers, (he since left them), told him that the governor of Arkansas, who had not even stated he was running for the job yet, was to be the next president, and their reason for feeling that was that he was invited to a Bilderberg meeting, which is rare for a mere state governor. The pope, Spielberg, Gates, Prince Charles, Bush, Blair, Conrad Black, etc. are more the level of attendees. Of course these meetings are hush hush, they don't want to be killed, and with all of them in one place, some wacko might find that too tempting to resist.
No mystery there imho.



posted on Mar, 26 2005 @ 05:13 PM
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Sebat, again, I suggest you not make assumptions, about my staring habit or anything else. When you've "stared" as long as I have, watched the trends and the brilliant social reengineering tactics, you might come to realize what is coming down the pike. Meanwhile, don't try psychoanalyzing me as we are unqualified. Were you qualified, you'd know better than to do it from afar and from scant writings.



posted on Mar, 26 2005 @ 07:07 PM
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Thomas Crowne you're right. And I'm beginning to be somewhat worried by the rampant conservatism of the people who appearantly are Freemasons here. Not only they are rebutting ANY KIND of criticism of their organization form ATS members as trolling, But they go as far as treating every person who has lost faith in the democratic process and is being critical in the US government as being looney conspiracy theorists.

Sebatwerk... have you forgot about the hundreds of muslim mens who were sent to Guantanamo and other secret detention centers everywhere around the globe without any legitimate trial? What about these obscure software companies who programmed the eVoting machines at your last elections and refused to let the public access the blueprints of the results? What about Patriot Act 1 and 2 eradicating a large part of your civil liberties and

Seriously, what do Freemasons have done recently to fight against the War on Terror and the Police State that's being built up in your country, if they so much work for the good of the community and the "betterment" of people? I don't see much. But what I've seen, on the other hand, is a bunch of Freemasons even if it's part or them) that have powerful positions in the governments and media businesses of the western world, as mayors, governors, deputees, judges, attorneys, editors-in-chief and, especially, Lords that are all collaborating for the implementation of big brotherish security policies and corporatist political agendas.



posted on Mar, 26 2005 @ 07:38 PM
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Originally posted by Echtelion
Thomas Crowne you're right. And I'm beginning to be somewhat worried by the rampant conservatism of the people who appearantly are Freemasons here. Not only they are rebutting ANY KIND of criticism of their organization form ATS members as trolling, But they go as far as treating every person who has lost faith in the democratic process and is being critical in the US government as being looney conspiracy theorists.


You've got it all wrong. I'm VERY open to MANY theories. But I'm VERY dismissive of claims that people make when they have absolutely NO evidence. And when they keep posting the same stuff, REFUSE to provide evidence, then it stands to reason that they might be trolls.

We've discussed the negative sides of masonry many times, and diacussed many ex-masons who have been very corrupt and un-masonic. But most of the things that guys like Akilles and MrNECROS post are not only false, they are OFFENSIVE, and we seek to make sure people know the truth.

Additionally, we discuss MANY legitimate conspiracies and such, but some things that get posted here have NO evidence to back them up and are downright foolish. Believe me, what you said above is not true. I just want people to wake up and understand that they need to back their claims up.



Sebatwerk... have you forgot about the hundreds of muslim mens who were sent to Guantanamo and other secret detention centers everywhere around the globe without any legitimate trial? What about these obscure software companies who programmed the eVoting machines at your last elections and refused to let the public access the blueprints of the results? What about Patriot Act 1 and 2 eradicating a large part of your civil liberties


Again, everything you have mentioned above has much conclusive evidence and, in my opinion, are legitimate issues to discuss. Masons running the country because there is a lodge 13 blocks from the White House, on the other hand, is not.



Seriously, what do Freemasons have done recently to fight against the War on Terror and the Police State that's being built up in your country, if they so much work for the good of the community and the "betterment" of people? I don't see much. But what I've seen, on the other hand, is a bunch of Freemasons even if it's part or them) that have powerful positions in the governments and media businesses of the western world, as mayors, governors, deputees, judges, attorneys, editors-in-chief and, especially, Lords that are all collaborating for the implementation of big brotherish security policies and corporatist political agendas.


I cannot speak for 1.6 million individual masons, but I'm sure MANY of them have helped any way they could. As an organization, there is not much we can do, as we are not a fighting fraternity. Even so, there are many military and gov't members who are masons and who are proudly fighting for their country. Freemasons help those less fortunate, including through our hospitals that treat children for FREE, and our masonic homes for those that require assisted living or for women (and children) who's husband has died. Charities that masons donate to are as diverse as the men who donate to them. Additionally, there's masonic charities set up for many different reasons, and I'm sure there's masons helping families of terrorism victims and what not. What else can masons do?



posted on Mar, 26 2005 @ 09:25 PM
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Originally posted by sebatwerk
Everything in our country is a product of the people, including the government and its laws, corporations, etc. etc. We, as a whole, are the enablers. If the people were a bit more intelligent, this would not be the case. It sucks, but it is.


I'm gonna have to agree with TC on this.
Our country has gone down a path that is irreversible, I'm afraid. It's been out of the citizens' hands for a very long time.
Like about a hundred years. About the time of the 14th Amendment.

I do think there are powerful groups running the country/world. Since I do know it's all about money and power but I don't know who they are, I choose to call them "Those
Who Rule".



posted on Mar, 26 2005 @ 11:29 PM
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Not only they are rebutting ANY KIND of criticism of their organization form ATS members as trolling, But they go as far as treating every person who has lost faith in the democratic process and is being critical in the US government as being looney conspiracy theorists.



This is what it is all about. Discredit those who try to speak honestly and openly and make them out to be loonies. Continue to motivate people to get further and further into debt. Create fear in telling them they will lose everything and that removing their freedoms is good for them 'We need to spy on you to make sure you are safe from those who would do you harm.'

History repeats it's self over and over again for this is what has happened throughout history one way or another. Perhaps it is not too late. Perhaps there is still time for us expose those who seek to control. This time the difference is global communication and the ability to make our views known. If just one person wakes uo to what is going on and tells another around the world - as I said perhaps it isn't yet too late. I live in hope.


[edit on 26/3/2005 by Lady of the Lake]



posted on Mar, 27 2005 @ 02:38 PM
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Sebatwerk, can I get that "List of Un-Evidenced Claims" so I can help clear up some of the confusion, if you only give me the chance.

"when they keep posting the same stuff, REFUSE to provide evidence, then it stands to reason that they might be trolls.

We've discussed the negative sides of masonry many times, and diacussed many ex-masons who have been very corrupt and un-masonic. But most of the things that guys like Akilles and MrNECROS post are not only false, they are OFFENSIVE,"

I know that Necros and I have both spoken from personal experience, but when we've been told we are "repeating claims" we have dug into the history books as further evidence.

You say we discussed Ex-Masons who were Un-Masonic. Actually, my research is SPECIFICALLY current Masons (whether they attend meetings or not, it matters little if your daily contacts are almost exclusively Freemasons) who have acted un-Masonicly, and NOT been kicked out.

THAT is the outrage that I am trying to bring light to, without being called a liar that does not back up his claims. So if you would, Sebat, please do what you say I am refusing to do, and provide evidence.



posted on Mar, 27 2005 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
Sebatwerk, can I get that "List of Un-Evidenced Claims" so I can help clear up some of the confusion, if you only give me the chance.

THAT is the outrage that I am trying to bring light to, without being called a liar that does not back up his claims. So if you would, Sebat, please do what you say I am refusing to do, and provide evidence.


You want examples of claims you have made without providing evidence? How about the MULTIPLE threads in which I have asked you to provide evidence of your claim? Anytime I have done that, you have not provided evidence. But you want examples, and examples I shall give. Mind you, this list only took me 15 minutes to compile, and I only searched through about 10 threads. There's MANY more not listed here.

Here's a recurring one:
Your claim that 13 is an important number to masons. I have stated many times that it is not, I've even shown you EVIDENCE of numbers which ARE. I've asked for evidence many times to show that 13 is important to masons, and you have never ONCE been able to substanciate your claim. I'll look for the threads...

Here's one of your more famous claims, that you could never offer evidence for:
Regarding the temple that is supposedly 13 blocks from the White House:

Also, check out this address: 1733 - 16th Street NW .It is 13 blocks north of the White House. It is DIRECTLY north of the non Obelisk, even more directly than the White House. It is the Mother Lodge of the World. Of the Scottish Rite, not regular Masonry, as if you can be one, but without also belonging to regular Masonry.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

You've also accused masons of murdering detractors, without providing evidence:

Of course, this was only AFTER they were made better men, they have since been made dead men, to ensure no further libel is brought upon the Brotherhood.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

In the same thread, you also claim that Freemasonry is used as a front for "high-level" masons to conduct criminal activities, based completely on speculation. You were asked (by me) to provide evidence, and did not.

Freemasons are obviously used to divert attention from the real power, but because you refuse to admit ANY influence, its not something you will be realizing any time soon.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

As it is, SOME very unscrupulous individuals use a combination of Masonic service and 'charitable donation' to ENTIRELY cover their money-grabbing schemes, and their exploitations of human labor (the ONLY way to get stinking rich).

www.abovetopsecret.com...

In another thread, you claimed the following, and denied to provide proof:

For instance, why do men of stature and wealth receive the 33 degree more often than a good-intentioned Mason who gave to no charities, only beggars on the street, has been a member for 16 years, and given his all, but not being a rich man, could do no more?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

In yet another thread, you claimed the Templars were guilty of sodomy, were told it was not true and asked to provide evidence, EVEN BY A MEDORATOR, which you ignored:

Why is it wrong that I take the accusations that atleast SOME of the Knights Templar had been guilty of this, and most likely those most involved in the sex rituals (IE. higher-ups) ruined it for the rest, as they say .

So the ones who were tortured probably weren't guilty, but doesn't mean SOMEONE wasn't, in the Brotherly Order.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And, in the end, your grand excuse for not providing evidence:
"Some things just would NEVER be provable."

[edit on 27-3-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Mar, 27 2005 @ 05:50 PM
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OK, so first of all.
Sorry for not sharing your belief system involving the use of numbers, and not believing you that "only these numbers have significance".

Now, take 1733 16th St for example. Any one who looks at that sees 33, and 17 16. Does everyone see 33 33? Does that mean it isnt there? Does that mean they got lucky???




"In antiquity, even before Christianity, 12 was a perfect, complete number, so 13 indicated the beginning of a new cycle; from this it became a symbol of death. To death was added the idea of renewal - the end of one cycle and the beginning of another.


Thirteen is used to end one cycle and begin another"
And so, do we find the Number 13 associated with something starting ANEW? The 13 colonies???
Yes, it could have been the 42 villages, but NO, it WAS the 13 colonies.

And from that CONFIRMED 'coincidence' we have NUMEROUS occurences of the number 13 in America's Great Seal, truly the Mark of A New Beginning (even says so on the seal, two-fold, in plain sight, and in SYMBOLISM).

About the 33rd Degree Freemasons, the only way we can answer that TRUTHFULLY is by playing a game, or by getting a list published of all 33 degree Masons. Option Number 2 has been tried, and is not happening, unless a Mason requests and publishes it.

So the game we will play is, I list some 33 degree Freemasons, and then you llist some 33 degree Freemasons (who aren't Worshipful Masters right now).
#1

Newt Gingrich, 33rd Degree Freemason
#2

Bob Dole, 33rd Degree Freemason
#3

Jack Kemp, 33rd Degree Freemason
#4

Storm Thurmond, 33rd Degree Freemason
#5

Colin Powell, 33rd Degree Freemason
#6

Jesse Helms, 33rd Degree Freemason
#7

Barry Goldwater, 33rd Degree Freemason



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