How Does a Vegan Reconcile Being Pro-Abortion?

originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: Annee
Was watching an old interview with Linda McArtney the other day. The reason she stated why their family became vegetarians was because of their love for animals and not wanting to kill them. Many vegetarians and vegans feel this way.
The OP makes perfect sense within that context.

So, you know stereotype vegetarians.

And I know some that aren't.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: Annee
Was watching an old interview with Linda McArtney the other day. The reason she stated why their family became vegetarians was because of their love for animals and not wanting to kill them. Many vegetarians and vegans feel this way.
The OP makes perfect sense within that context.

So, you know stereotype vegetarians.

And I know some that aren't.

Fine , you know some that aren’t. Just don’t make it sound like all of them are in it purely for health reasons , which is how your post came across.

a reply to: Metallicus

I'm just basing this on the thread title but there is no such thing as a true vegan or vegetarian. No matter what the crop there is always some small mammals or insects killed in the process of preparing the land, planting the seeds, tending the crops, cutting the crops and processing the food. Then there's the bugs and things that die in transporting the food.

As for abortion rights, its a woman's right to choose what happens to her body.

originally posted by: AProudLefty
a reply to: Metallicus

So you aren't FOR murder you are just okay with it?

No one is okay with murder. You are pushing the narrative that it is a murder to kill a fetus that hasn't had brain developed fully, making it not sentient. Is it murder if someone unplug a life support system on a brain dead patient?

If you want to get us to see that it's a murder, you'll have to present a better argument. Till then, it is not a murder.

There is no equivalence between an unborn child and a brain dead patient on life support. One has a full life ahead of them, the other lived life and is at death's doorstep.

Conciousness is not a requirement for life. If it were, you would be eligible for summary death every time you go to sleep at night.

a reply to: Metallicus

Why? Because ummm...oh yeah...Orange Man Bad.

That's the reason for everything now, right?

I'm vegan and pro-choice, but I also don't preach anything to anyone either. I also don't believe it's wrong to eat meat, it's just not something I want to take part of simply because I don't have to. I do believe factory farms are quite atrocious for several reasons and we can discuss that further if wanted, but I'm not interested in a debate as I've already got my mind made up and I'm sure most do here. Honestly, I'd have no problem if people who want to eat meat took matters into their own hands and killed their food themselves.

In regards to the pro-choice thing, well, add it to the list of unpopular opinions I have, but I believe we've got way too many people on this planet and way too many people having kids that straight up shouldn't. I was born to a mother who had no business having a kid and it took me years to get 'normal' as a result. Many times, until my late 20's, I wished my mom would have aborted me. Sure, I'd rather people were more cautious of what they were doing when doing the horizontal bop and doing what they could to ensure they wouldn't have kids, but that's just not how it is. I suppose it comes down to personal responsibility to me. If pro-lifers want anti-abortion laws that bad, then open up your homes and start adopting so everyone who is tempted to have an abortion can have another option open to them, knowing there are people out there who will gladly take in their unwanted children.

Think of it like the wall rhetoric that gets thrown around, "If you don't believe in a wall, take the down the walls in your house or your fence on your property.", well, if you're so pro-life, open up your doors and take in all those kids.

I should probably note, abortion is pretty much....actually, I think the *only* thing that I side with the left on. I'm a libertarian, which is why I don't feel the need to cram my way of life down other people's throats regarding their diets, so take it as you will.

I suppose instead of asking this question on a forum, go find some vegans and ask them. My fiancee is an activists/leader of several activists groups down here, so my house is filled with vegan activists on a regular basis. I haven't had the discussion with many of them regarding abortion, but the topic has been brought up a lot. They've often asked at events where the stand on that and if I had to deliver an answer, I think the general idea comes down to personal freedom. Your body, your choice. In the context of animals, they've got no choice in the matter. Sure, I understand a fetus doesn't either, I'm just putting forward my idea based off what I've heard in discussions. Trust me, I have to stop my eyes from rolling around in my head on a regular basis because a lot of the activists certainly are liberal intersectionals and often times, they say some pretty stupid sh!t.

If you're actually interested in discussing it further, I can present the question to a couple hundred vegans over the next week and come back with my findings, but if this is just going to be a vehicle to sit behind a computer insulting people you don't know and will never meet, that's not really something I'm interested in partaking in.

a reply to: peskyhumans

One has a full life ahead of them

Sperms and eggs have the potential to have a full life ahead of them. I guess we should charge men for choking the bishop.

If it were, you would be eligible for summary death every time you go to sleep at night.

Yeah.
*Having the best dream in my life*
*Clicks*

a reply to: djz3ro

As for abortion rights, its a woman's right to choose what happens to her body.

Her body ? Technically the body she is carrying around has developed through seed from another body. Does not the owner of that seed which developed into a fetus have say in the matter ?

I understand what you are saying in essence, but just because the man doesn’t carry the fetus to birth doesn’t make him less important in the decision to choose life for his child.

originally posted by: Metallicus

Anyway, there is nothing worse in life than a libtard vegan in my opinion.

I'll have you know my cousin is a right leaning (Tory voting) vegan, who is obnoxious about his veganism as they come. In fact I didn't mind vegans until he became one and started with the stereotypical anti meat eater humour like "how do you confuse a meat eater?" "tell him the truth about where his food comes from" he didn't have much to say when I told him I knew exactly about the mass meat industry, where my food comes from and that I make the choice to keep eating meat. He also doesn't seem to mind leather interior on his BMW either.

I can see why you're confused about vegans who support abortion though, can't wrap my head around that one...

originally posted by: AProudLefty
a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Plants don't feel pain. They are not sentient.
Fetuses under 24 weeks don't feel pain. They are not sentient.

There OP. That's the reconciliation.

I'm not sure you can say that.
Plants will lean away from fire so there must be some level of "comfort" for plants.
Also things like some plants warning other plants of predators.
Look at a venus fly trap, they're hunters.

People are too quick to dismiss the abilities of plants.

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar
a reply to: Metallicus

Well to be fair I'm more interested in how Vegans justify eating plants which are also alive, but I'm not sure if you can really compare abortion and veganism.

Although 1 less human on the world is going to save countless animals so vegans being pro abortion seems pretty consistent to me.

The only reason you need to justify abortion is it stops young girls killing themselves with a coathanger.

Plants don't have a central nervous system. If you cut a plant with a knife, it doesn't scream in pain and try to get away from you. Some plants have grown defense mechanisms so you stay away from them and don't eat them. This gets debated all the time and then eventually someone posts a link to a study showing that plants "communicate" to each other to a certain degree, but still, they aren't sentient.

originally posted by: AProudLefty
a reply to: Metallicus

So you aren't FOR murder you are just okay with it?

No one is okay with murder. You are pushing the narrative that it is a murder to kill a fetus that hasn't had brain developed fully, making it not sentient. Is it murder if someone unplug a life support system on a brain dead patient?

If you want to get us to see that it's a murder, you'll have to present a better argument. Till then, it is not a murder.

So, by this logic, you are cheering the building of a border wall to keep out illegal aliens, right? I mean, if they're not "here" yet then they don't have a right to "live" here...right?

Same goes for a child making his pop-tart into the shape of a gun. He didn't shoot/kill anyone, so he shouldn't be expelled from school...right?

You guys really need to make up your minds!

originally posted by: Sheye
I understand what you are saying in essence, but just because the man doesn’t carry the fetus to birth doesn’t make him less important in the decision to choose life for his child.

Yep it does.
As long as you're living under my roof I set the rules.

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

originally posted by: Sheye
I understand what you are saying in essence, but just because the man doesn’t carry the fetus to birth doesn’t make him less important in the decision to choose life for his child.

Yep it does.
As long as you're living under my roof I set the rules.

How very unfair 😕... not to mention very selfish.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

You have to be sentient to have any right.

And I am not sure of your point in your second paragraph. Schools have rules for children to follow.

originally posted by: AProudLefty
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

You have to be sentient to have any right.

Source it.

originally posted by: Annee
Stereotyping vegetarians?

Vegetarians I know - - are so - - simply because they believe its healthier for their bodies.

Has nothing to do with food animals.

I think the OP is referring to vegans who invade blogs and other IT sites and shame meat eaters. Vegans are different than vegetarians. Vegans disapprove of any animal or animal by products. No non human creature should be harvested or used in any way for human use....period. No leather, no honey, no dairy cheese, no meat, no boar bristle hair brush, no jello etc. And yes, the Vegans are very oppressing and judgmental in their posts on those outside their way of life. I see it all the time on many sites. I don't slam Vegans for their way of life and I don't appreciate them slamming me for mine.

My daughter almost went full on vegan and wanted to quit eating our own hens eggs until I showed her how our chickens would lay eggs whether they were in our possession or running wild and free in the woods.....until another critter caught and ate them that is. But our chickens are few and they are taken care of like the example earlier stated. Safe, free range and very spoiled. They all have names and are a beloved part of the family. My daughter and her Vegan friends are all about animal rights. They protest, march and raise money for any and all animal rights issues on a constant basis. Yeah for them. They stand for something. They care deeply about animal life and do not believe there should be any human caused duress or death of animals. Many of them put animal life above human life. I've heard them. Maybe that's how they think, like that slamming on the brakes and crashing and dieing to avoid hitting a squirrel is somehow ok since it avoids harm or death to a squirrel.

My point is they are very ardent about animal rights to safety and life. It does seem a little hipocritical that they want to save every baby duck and all the ants, don't want to eat even unfertalized eggs or wear leather shoes because of the harm to the animal, would in the same breath not consider a human fetus as a living creature that deserves life.

That's all.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Source it.

"I think, therefore I am" - Descartes.

originally posted by: AProudLefty
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

You have to be sentient to have any right.

Just like you have to be a 'resident' to have any right.

And I am not sure of your point in your second paragraph. Schools have rules for children to follow.

Ah, very good! Just like medical practice needs to be based on sound and reasonable rules, not like knee-jerk reactions to hyper-paranoia. Now, think about your response a little bit more; you've actually argued against your own point here. And yes, it was a trap of sorts, the question. Sound and reasonable rules are not based on opinions, they are based in fact. In the case of human life and human consciousness there is only one fact, a life either exists or it doesn't. Opinions about anything in between are just that, opinions.

a reply to: Sheye

I think people have a right to be selfish when it comes to what happens to their body.

I am curious about your thoughts on abortion stopping young girls killing themselves with coathangers.
Stopping abortion, only means stopping safe abortions.