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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Aazadan
If this is allowed to stand, the executive branch will effectively take over the houses biggest responsibility, permanently.
Not really. The law states that Trump can do everything he has done. Legally, all a judge can do is declare the law itself unconstitutional... which would invalidate quite a few National Emergencies already in effect from Trump, Obama, Bush, etc.
Of course, legally has rarely stopped activist judges who think they are gods with no oversight.
Ironically, the law allowing this declaration also says that Congress not only can terminate this National Emergency, but that they must consider it! Trump can be stopped by a simple resolution from Congress.
Oh, wait... they can't even put a budget together... what was I thinking?
TheRedneck
originally posted by: Aazadan
originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Aazadan
If this is allowed to stand, the executive branch will effectively take over the houses biggest responsibility, permanently.
Not really. The law states that Trump can do everything he has done. Legally, all a judge can do is declare the law itself unconstitutional... which would invalidate quite a few National Emergencies already in effect from Trump, Obama, Bush, etc.
Of course, legally has rarely stopped activist judges who think they are gods with no oversight.
Ironically, the law allowing this declaration also says that Congress not only can terminate this National Emergency, but that they must consider it! Trump can be stopped by a simple resolution from Congress.
Oh, wait... they can't even put a budget together... what was I thinking?
TheRedneck
Well, the declaration of emergency powers is a law in need of serious reform anyways, and has been widely used and abused by just about every administration to make power grabs. However, what Trump is doing here goes far beyond that, because his emergency is not an actual emergency. He has been threatening to do this for two years now, not based on border criteria being fulfilled, but as a way to circumvent an uncooperative Congress. Congress is a coequal branch of government, and they have the authority to oppose a Presidents spending plans if they so choose. Declaring an emergency to get around a Constitutional separation of powers, is blatantly illegal. If this stands, most of Congress essentially becomes irrelevant, if not immediately, then by the next administration, when they declare emergencies to reorganize the budget however they see fit each year.
Also, a resolution from Congress to stop a state of emergency is something the President can veto. As such, it requires a veto proof majority to stop. Meaning that if 1/3 of either house of Congress decides to side with the President, they cannot overturn it. Meaning, the President effectively gets absolute rule. If allowed to stand, this becomes the very definition of tyranny.
originally posted by: proximo
originally posted by: fencesitter85
originally posted by: xuenchen
originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: xuenchen
All trump has done since declaring it is play golf, it’s clearly not a big enough emergency for him to actually spend time in the office
👆best joke so far lol☝️
He met with a 3-Star General from the Army Corps of Engineers later that day 😆
The Wall is Coming !!!!
Fence*
200 miles of it. Paid for by you.
Lol.
I love how you all continue to parrot his propaganda and call it a wall.
It's a fence.
He's a failed negotiator. He's failed miserably every step of the way.
234 miles of a fence and you're a doing a victory dance xD
I don't care what it is called - they can call it welcome mat as far as I am concerned.
All that matters is does it slow the illegals down and allow the border patrol to apprehend them.
You are reaching to try and declare Trump has failed over the word used to describe the barrier.
originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: mtnshredder
Trump getting things done at the expense of veterans and military personnel is not cool.
originally posted by: mtnshredder
originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: mtnshredder
Trump getting things done at the expense of veterans and military personnel is not cool.
No it's not and neither is Mueller spending over 25 million chasing unicorns in Russia or the cost of the government shut down, but here we are.
Do you have any links showing what veteran benefits are being cut as a result of the wall?
Just curious, I haven't looked or seen any stats or numbers related to vet cuts.
Our Vets should be a top priority. They've taken care of us, we should make sure they're taken care of, at any cost.
First - It means that the President can issue through an EO declaring an emergency, a reorganization of any national budget from here on out. Furthermore, as long as the President controls at least 1/3 of a single house of Congress, this cannot be overturned, as an act of Congress to overturn the EO would not have a veto proof majority.
Second - This hasn't really been tested by the courts. The idea is that an emergency declaration can only be used in an actual emergency, but there doesn't seem to be a specific definition as to what an emergency is. The spirit of the law is very clear, but the letter of the law is not.
Trump getting things done at the expense of veterans and military personnel is not cool.
originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: InTheLight
Trump getting things done at the expense of veterans and military personnel is not cool.
No, it's not, and it's also not happening. Here's the breakdown:Exactly where in that list do you see the VA or the military personnel budget?
- $1.375 billion from the recent Congressional appropriations bill, which is available immediately without question.
- $600 million from drug forfeitures, which requires only an Executive Order, not a National Emergency.
- $2.5 billion from the military Drug Intervention program, again requiring only an Executive Order.
- $3.5 billion from the military Construction Fund, which is the only item requiring a National Emergency
TheRedneck
Well, the declaration of emergency powers is a law in need of serious reform anyways, and has been widely used and abused by just about every administration to make power grabs.
However, what Trump is doing here goes far beyond that, because his emergency is not an actual emergency.
Also, a resolution from Congress to stop a state of emergency is something the President can veto.
It is premature debating what may or may not happen, let's wait and see.
When the President declares a national emergency, no powers or authorities made available by statute for use in the event of an emergency shall be exercised unless and until the President specifies the provisions of law under which he proposes that he, or other officers will act. Such specification may be made either in the declaration of a national emergency, or by one or more contemporaneous or subsequent Executive orders published in the Federal Register and transmitted to the Congress.
originally posted by: AProudLefty
a reply to: DBCowboy
You sure?
Please do not confuse not enforcing law and not having enough BP agents to apprehend those crossing, with an actual reduction of people crossing the border
No, it's not, and it's also not happening.
Here's the breakdown:
$1.375 billion from the recent Congressional appropriations bill, which is available immediately without question.
$600 million from drug forfeitures, which requires only an Executive Order, not a National Emergency.
$2.5 billion from the military Drug Intervention program, again requiring only an Executive Order.
$3.5 billion from the military Construction Fund, which is the only item requiring a National Emergency Exactly where in that list do you see the VA or the military personnel budget?
TheRedneck
According to the law, the defense secretary has to decide whether the wall is militarily necessary before money from the military construction budget can be used.
“We always anticipated that this would create a lot of attention and since moneys potentially could be redirected, you can imagine the concern this generates,” Shanahan told reporters traveling back with him from his trip to Afghanistan, the Middle East and Europe.
“Very deliberately, we have not made any decisions, we have identified the steps we would take to make those decisions,” Shanahan said.
originally posted by: AProudLefty
a reply to: RsaWarhawk
None of those articles show that Obama has been lax with the border security.
Please do not confuse not enforcing law and not having enough BP agents to apprehend those crossing, with an actual reduction of people crossing the border
Well in the first link you provided, the article said that the immigrants were already apprehend and detained.
Obama, Clinton, Schumer and 23 other Democratic senators voted in favor of the act when it passed in the Senate by a vote of 80 to 19.
originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Toothache
The problem is, this isn't even close to a national emergency. It's Trump being a bully and baby to get what he wants.
I'm sorry; are you the President?
You must be, since the law is written so that the President makes the decisions on what does and does not constitute a National Emergency. Please forgive me; all this time I thought Donald Trump won the election.
TheRedneck