Red Flag 19-1

Red Flag 19-1 just ended Friday, and interesting stories are already starting to come out. Players included:

10 Sqn RAF KC3
10 Sqn RAAF APC3
12th ACCS E-8C
199th FS F-22A
2 Sqn RAAF E7A
4th FS F-35A
51 Sqn RAF RC-135W
69th BS B-52H
6Sqn RAF FGR4
77Sqn RAAF F/A18A+
79th FS F-16CM
6th AMW RFTTF KC-135R
965th AACS E-3G
HSC 23 MH-60S
VAQ 132 EA-18G
VFA 136 F/A-18E
VIII Sqn E-3D

A last minute addition was 12 aircraft from the 4th Fighter Squadron, 388th Fighter Wing, and Reservists from the 419th Fighter Wing, based out of Hill AFB. Interestingly, they included 4 pilots that recently completed F-35 transition training, including one that finished his training the week prior.

The 388th Operations Group Commander spoke out about the exercise, and made some extremely interesting comments. He said that his first trip in 2004, they were using tactics from the 1980s still. Now, they don't assume that they'll achieve Air Superiority.

Another pilot a few years ago said this about the exercise:

In 2002 we had a well-defined set up, we knew where the enemy was, how it would react to our presence, where the threats were located etc.; in 2010, we faced a “border line” scenario with enemy elements embedded in friendly forces or civilian population, where CDE (Collateral Damage Estimation) was extremely important, where target VID (Visual IDentification) or EOID (Electro Optical IDentification) were the main success factors in the simulated air campaign. In other words, 8 years apart, the RF scenario had evolved to adapt to the ever-changing “combat environment.”

The most recent RFs prove that the exercise continues to change.

For instance, while maintaining the standard coalitions scheme (Blue and Red forces), RF 17-1 had the two teams involved in a “crisis” instead of a war situation. On top of that, not only does the scenario has introduced the latest and most sophisticated and capable threats that require a change in tactics, but it has also moved on a higher level, focusing on the importance of “battlefield information management,”

According to Col. Wood, during week one of the 19-1 exercise they flew a large force exercise against 60 Aggressor aircraft, including strong electronic warfare systems. According to Col. Wood, during the flight, his wingman, who was brand new to the F-35 was able to direct a 3,000+ hour 4th Gen pilot away from a threat, then kill that threat, and go on to get three more kills during the mission.

I expect more details in the next few weeks, but it makes for an impressive first comment about the capabilities of the F-35, even in the hands of an inexperienced pilot.

theaviationist.com... -emerge/

a reply to: Zaphod58

But but but f35 useless , how can this be .

a reply to: hutch622

Their first RF it was "Well, they had a 20-1 kill ratio, but we don't know how many of those were actually the F-35, or what role the F-22 played in them".

In PR there is no such thing as bad PR.Just PR :-P

a reply to: Zaphod58

It certainly seems that they are turning out to be aa good as hoped and then some .

a reply to: hutch622

When a guy that's 8 missions out of transition training gets 4 kills in a mission, I'd say they work pretty good.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Yes i read that as well , impressive to say the least .

The sensors and battle mgmt capabilities of the f35 are insanely awesome.....can go ahead find the targets direct the 4th gen planes , the 4th gen launch their missles f35 keeps the lock and boom enemy dead out of nowhere ..... If u can put the f35 brain in an f22 watch out.

a reply to: Wgeorge666

Wait till they roll out the LRSB.

I think it is going to do some cool things when it comes to BIM.

a reply to: grey580

Yes with the b21 raider. The f15 x. And potential b1-R. Plus the future PCA fighter thats supposed to escort the the b21. We will dominate for awhile. Just have to develop hypersonic missiles to take out future s500 air defense type systems

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: hutch622

When a guy that's 8 missions out of transition training gets 4 kills in a mission, I'd say they work pretty good.

The Raptor dudes bring their dudes in the B-Course to LFEs. The amount of SA really helps. They still make mistakes. They still die once in a while.

That’s pretty cool a new dude was able to do that.

RF 17-1 they did good. Not the same jet. They could have done better. This Flag I think the jet is stable and now dudes are able to call other dudes out from dying. Not bad. The kills with Raptor comment is null. There were Fighting Falcons, Typhoons, and Eagles out there with the 5th gen. Escort did escort things and relayed to kill this guy and they typically did. I’d take their first flag with a grain of salt and not an accurate benchmark. They did good but the jet today is right on.

a reply to: glib2

This was one of the first LFEs with their full up software and capabilities so it'll be interesting to see the final results.

Was 77 Sqd Raaf playing as Red side or Blue?

a reply to: Zaphod58

It's being reported that a single f-35 destroyed 60 enemy aircraft. Obviously, an F-35 does not contain the armaments to splash 60 aircraft.


Does this mean that the F-35 have the capability to take over fire control of naval vessels and essentially kill anything that pops up on radar?

a reply to: EternalSolace

This is not what happened. They had a Counter Air Mission with a mixed force (up to a dozen F-35A and 4th Gen Aircraft) against 60 agressor aircraft. The aggressors used electronic attack capabilities to severely degrade the effectiveness of the 4th Gen fighters but the F-35s were able to gain the upper hand and effectivley manage the battle.
The overall score was 20 to 1 apparently but that never means much. The point is to train and to evolve aerial warfare, not to produce pretty headlines. At least it shouldnt be.

That said, yes the capability exists. Check out NIFC-CA.
news.usni.org...

a reply to: EternalSolace

No, it's being reported that F-35s went against up to 60 aircraft with EW support. There were multiple aircraft on both sides with the F-35 acting as quarterback for the other aircraft.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I have to wonder what Boeing's PR Department is going to come up with to counter this?

According to a statement today, not only did they have no problems with the air to air mission, their mission capable rate for the exercise exceeded 90%.

RAAF Air Commodore Mike Kitcher spoke about the F-35 at Avalon. He said during a mission at RF19-1 the F-35s went ahead and kicked the door open. Once that was done, F-22s moved ahead and held it, while the F-35s went back for the strike package and escorted them to the target area.

“One of the key strike missions I did that day was to watch an eight-ship [formation] of F-35s kick open a door, which was a fairly hard door to open. Some F-22s came in after that to hold the door open, and the F-35s went back and picked up a strike train that consisted of [RAAF] Hornets, Super Hornets from the U.S. Navy, Typhoons from the [British] Royal Air Force and U.S. Air Force F-16s, supported by U.S. Navy [EA-18G] Growlers and U.S. Air Force F-16s,” Kitcher said.

“That was the first time I’ve been in a high-end exercise, involving a significant air threat, a significant surface-to-air threat and even a cyberthreat. You could see the way the F-35 was working with Classic Hornets, Super Hornets, Typhoons and Growlers to solve a very difficult problem. I’m confident that we’ll be doing that in Australia with our F-35s and our Super Hornets and Growlers within the next couple of years.”

www.defensenews.com... e/