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Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez on Amazon's 3 Billion Dollar Tax Break

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posted on Feb, 15 2019 @ 08:17 PM
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originally posted by: pexx421
Yeah. Unfortunately I find a decline here. A decade ago I would come here to find people completely dissecting the narrative from both sides. The folk here, right and left, were all hypercritical of the lies in the narrative from their own groups as well as opposing groups. Now it seems people just come here to harp their party line and attack the opposing party line. They’ve done their job of dividing us well.... of course. They had decades of psyops, pr and propaganda science to go on. It’s just sad to come here and the people are mostly just repeating things from the news or Facebook.

This is why I keep engaging across the divide. I feel like you that the powerful purposefully want us divided. Most average people including my friends don’t realize that, so I want to bridge the gap.




posted on Feb, 15 2019 @ 08:20 PM
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a reply to: pexx421

I don't assume you're stupid. I do think maybe you haven't gone past A to B. A being take from the rich to B give to the poor.

Have you postulated on the effects of that? C, D, E, F? Very, very smart people still don't get beyond A to B.

So I am asking you again ... Let's say you seize it from the rich and/or greedy corps at levels that finally, finally satisfy and implement the free stuff regime. What happens when C, D, E, and F crop up? Those things did with Obamacare, you know. Many of us saw them coming and were told we were being racist for bringing it up.

I am asking you a simple question, and you think I'm calling you an idiot. Stop deflecting and answer me. What happens? When you take from the rich and the corps and they decide they've had enough or you break them, either one, what happens to your programs then? Where does the money come from?



posted on Feb, 15 2019 @ 08:21 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

I mean...she's not wrong.



posted on Feb, 15 2019 @ 08:29 PM
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a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

No the hard left is not the answer.

All in all, I find socialism at its base to be an ultimately destructive ideology. At least, its more rabid proponents are. They're always targeting others and pointing to what those others have that they shouldn't and then promising to take it to give to you (general you).

In its rhetoric, it is always tearing down and never talking about how it will build up. To me, that's not a positive thing, only a negative, pessimistic model to be implemented on the backs of strife and division.

Does that mean what we have is a good thing? No, but I think what we have is a bastard child of power happy politicians and people playing their whims to advantage in the corp and finance world. You get the government you deserve, and if it's a cess pool ... well, what does the say about the public who votes it in?



posted on Feb, 15 2019 @ 08:33 PM
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originally posted by: links234
a reply to: xuenchen

I mean...she's not wrong.





posted on Feb, 15 2019 @ 08:39 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: pexx421

I don't assume you're stupid. I do think maybe you haven't gone past A to B. A being take from the rich to B give to the poor.

Have you postulated on the effects of that? C, D, E, F? Very, very smart people still don't get beyond A to B.

So I am asking you again ... Let's say you seize it from the rich and/or greedy corps at levels that finally, finally satisfy and implement the free stuff regime. What happens when C, D, E, and F crop up? Those things did with Obamacare, you know. Many of us saw them coming and were told we were being racist for bringing it up.

I am asking you a simple question, and you think I'm calling you an idiot. Stop deflecting and answer me. What happens? When you take from the rich and the corps and they decide they've had enough or you break them, either one, what happens to your programs then? Where does the money come from?


I exactly described that, extensively and you haven’t addressed any of my responses. The free stuff in this economy is going to the wealthy, not the poor. Even “free stuff” is a fabricated catch phrase to specifically denigrate a huge segment of the population who want taxes to be spent on us rather than on corporate profit, wars for profit, and banksters exploiting us. Want to talk about free stuff? How about 90% of bank loans given out are actually a handout to the banks, federally backed and leveraged so they may extract surplus interest from workers and homebuyers all with money given to the banks by the fed, that the banks didn’t do anything to earn.

Now, if you’d like to continue, please go back and address how any of the arguments I provided on the last page, in three walls of text and explanations are wrong, and address this post too. Tell me it’s wrong and how.
edit on 15-2-2019 by pexx421 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 15 2019 @ 08:47 PM
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Of course, to understand that you’d have to understand how banking works in the us. Banks lend imaginary money, not theirs, to home buyers. Then they have an “asset”, the mortgage. Say it was $200k. The fed then gives them 10x that (that’s why it’s called leveraged) to loan out to other people. It’s not actual bank money from a banks funds. They just pass it on from the fed and tack on interest. There has never been a larger, continuous handout in history ever. And finance is the second largest of the 2 only growth sectors in the us, after the alphabet companies. So the second largest of the only two growth sectors works by getting billions in handouts daily.



posted on Feb, 15 2019 @ 08:50 PM
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Here’s the way I look at it:

Like ‘social justice’ many of the historical gripes have some merit, from racism to the wealthy and powerful colluding to keep themselves that way.

Inter generational cycles of poverty and economic “poverty traps” are well evidenced.

Contrary to the “myth of the meritocracy” in the US or American Dream, actually only a small percentage of people change social class. Further, on economic mobility measures the US is lagging behind many developed countries.

www.epi.org...

So in that sense, so called leftists or social investment folks have a point. Right wingers and traditionalists should see the base arguments.

However, socialism, collectivism, and now cultural Marxism have their own issues, toxicities, and seeds of injustice. That was born out in the 20th century unfortunately.

I also recognize the problems with affirmative action and welfare dependence.

I’m sincerely interested in real evidence driven solutions, which is what I work on professionally. Not partisan hackery. But it’s a challenge.
a reply to: ketsuko



posted on Feb, 15 2019 @ 08:51 PM
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So you tell me, is that step a or step b of this little imaginary range of understanding that you’re so far ahead of me on. After all, I’ve only read dozens of books by zinn, Chomsky, hedges, varoufakis, etc. And followed literally hundreds of hours of their debates and lectures. But I’m sure hedges, Chomsky, and Hudson “the greatest real economist in the world” who has worked for the us govt, China, Canada, Goldman, Citigroup etc is far behind your vast understanding of things he couldn’t grasp.



posted on Feb, 15 2019 @ 08:57 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

And please, don’t talk to me about Obamacare. Again, you assume I’m a democrat fanboy. I warned people that Obama was a wolf in sheep’s clothing back then, and from day one I pointed out how Obamacare was a free handoff to the health insurance agencies and big pharma. See, I recognize that the dems and repubs are the same team. The corporatist team. And that team is both parties and all the mega corporations against all the us workers. You serve them in this as well, voting against your own interests by supporting the Friedman economic model of lassez faire capitalism which is THE EXACT SYSTEM that supports Obama, Clinton and all those you revile!! The neoliberal model is THE FREIDMAN ECONOMIC MODEL!



posted on Feb, 15 2019 @ 09:06 PM
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a reply to: pexx421

Again, you don't want taxes to actually be made fair though. You want them to be made confiscatory.

Why not a simple flat rate for everyone and every entity?

No ... you want them to be set at a rate you would never, ever entertain for yourself, but because someone else has more than you do, you think it's somehow a fair rate for them.

This is what I mean about it being a destructive ideology.



posted on Feb, 15 2019 @ 09:14 PM
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That addresses nothing I said and makes up things I didn’t say. Go away ketsuko, at this point you’re just trolling. I don’t even think we’re having the same conversation. It’s like you make up what I’m saying in your imagination and addressing that, and not discussing at all what I actually say. Is this some new sophistry strategy where you befuddle your opponent with nonsense and imaginary arguments??



posted on Feb, 15 2019 @ 09:16 PM
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a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Part of the problem with intergenerational poverty is less to do with anyone holding anyone else down and more to do with ingrained cultural behaviors.

If mommy and daddy (or increasingly just mommy and multiple boyfriends), cannot manage their own lives in a way that generates anything but poverty, how are the kids going to learn anything but chaos? It takes a smart kid to break that cycle. But that has less to do with the system than it does with most people just not being smart enough to break out of ingrained culture they grow up with.

I was raised on the unhealthy typical American diet and I've broken that cycle, but my sister and my parents are mired in it although my parents are trying to break it to some degree. My sister married into generational poverty, but we were the poorest in our extended family. I went the other way and while my husband was raised poor, we climbed back into the middle class.

I have a millionaire in my list of uncles. He's my dad's youngest brother, and when they were growing up, they lived in a house where you could see the ground through holes in the floor.

I'd say the American dream and social mobility are less dead then you think, but it is being strangled steadily. Look at places like California and New York where you have the Upper Class wealthy buffered from the dirt poor by the kept bureaucrat class of the government. There is no more middle class, but this by design -- collusion between the super rich and government. But somehow, it's only ever the super rich who are to blame for this. No one thinks government is to blame.

What happens, of course, is that government plays gate keeper protecting the richest while they fatten themselves, and both groups make sure the rest of us suffer.

Socialism will only make all of it worse by handing full power to be bureaucrats.



posted on Feb, 15 2019 @ 09:17 PM
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originally posted by: pexx421
That addresses nothing I said and makes up things I didn’t say. Go away ketsuko, at this point you’re just trolling. I don’t even think we’re having the same conversation. It’s like you make up what I’m saying in your imagination and addressing that, and not discussing at all what I actually say. Is this some new sophistry strategy where you befuddle your opponent with nonsense and imaginary arguments??


Who's trolling? All you can do is go on and on about how great and smart you are. Your name is even an allusion to how big your muscles are.

You haven't answered a thing I've asked you.
edit on 15-2-2019 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 15 2019 @ 09:23 PM
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I explained how we live in a kleptocracy, I explained how banking is a handout, I explained how corporations intentionally and unintentionally kill people around the world. I explained how the new deal and bretton woods benefitted everyone and didn’t put companies out of business. I explained how over time corporations have been taking a larger share of the money we create for themselves. I postulated what would happen if we taxed companies out of business. I also explained what would happen if companies deflated people out of their homes. And much more. And you’re response is I support some catastrophic tax rate, which I never stated. But hell, let’s go there. The new deal passed massive welfare creation, supported huge growth in unions, had social programs much stronger than today, with much less stringent requirements, taxed at 90%, and supported the biggest, largest growth in the us (and world) economy in history. But now I’m sure you’ll respond with some comment about unicorns and safe spaces.



posted on Feb, 15 2019 @ 09:27 PM
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And yes, my name is actually my first email account that I’ve had since. I’ve never gotten rid of it through the years, and I was hugely buff when I was young and it’s silly. It is what it is.



posted on Feb, 15 2019 @ 09:35 PM
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Not to say I’m scrawny now. Also you don’t know me from joe, though you keep trying to paint me into a box. I also grew up with a poor single mother on welfare, in the murder capital of the country. And I am also firmly middle class myself. I also recognize how much benefit we would get from having the tax dollars we pay provide services for us, rather than wars and corporate subsidies. Want to know why we have massive school shootings? Massive crime waves? Breakdown of social contracts? Look up anomie. And Eros and Thanatos. It will explain exactly where we are as a society. People have little hope, declining standards of living, and no voice. All the things all of us complain about in our society largely are exactly created by the people who rule our society. And who do you think that is? You want to blame the poor, do you think the poor make the rules? It’s the corporate sector.



posted on Feb, 15 2019 @ 09:38 PM
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The bankers, big oil, big Agro, big pharma, the mic have rigged the rules to favor themselves. They write and pass legislation, not poor folk. And they control the narrative, which is why you blame the problems of the us on poor, immigrants, and socialists, rather than the real source of the problem.



posted on Feb, 15 2019 @ 09:44 PM
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And in response to what you say about me talking myself up, you have been condescending and patronizing to me here and plenty other debates. It’s rude and detracts from what you say, and is a direct attack on my cred rather than my arguments, so I felt encouraged to speak up for myself.




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