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Terrorist vs. Guerilla Warfare

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posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 06:36 PM
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Originally posted by WeBDeviL
00PS -

Here's what gets me -

The fact that you can state that the 9/11 attacks were something bigger, something conspiracy related is beyond me.

I understand the 'evidence' that has been presented, but, let me ask you this:

In four years, when the U.S. is still free, and Bush is retired, who will you choose to hate then?

-wD


I am not a democrat. I am republican. I dislike clinton more than bush. Why you ask? Clinton was the guy who really was pivitol for this whole process of war. Sure Bush's daddy had the gulf war but Clinton was all over the globe. Breaking international law, only difference is between dems and repubs is that dems like to hide their work while the repubs like the nation to know about it.

Few americans knew about libya. No americans wanted to know about kosovo, and for 8 years clinton was dropping bombs on iraq...but lets not get into whose worse dems or repubs, clinton or bush, I'm just answering your question...I don't hate anything but tyranny itself, it's a disease not people but manifested in them.




posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 06:38 PM
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Indeed 00PS, I believe a genius man once said something along the lines of:

Being a true patriot is not about dying for your country, it is about fighting to make the country better.

So, here's basically where it stands for me:

- Right now, this country is what I believe in. However, the moment that I truly see them doing something horrible, or turn this great democracy loving country into a nazi-like state - I will fight beside you.

Until then, I fear we may fight against eachother the way things tend to be going - but we'll see. =]

(glad the confusion got fixed up)

take care,

-wD



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 06:40 PM
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Originally posted by 27jd
Perhaps your point would not be met with such objection if you acknowledge that killing innocent civilians is not what you meant. I'm sure it wasn't, right?


About the conspiracy of Al Quaeda Pre 9/11 that's a whole nother thread...But yes That's why I started this thread, to explain to people that when I said more terrorism is good it's not about attacking civilians. It's about maintaining the rightful concept of guerilla warfare as an effective and legitimate form of self defense and action.



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 06:44 PM
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Originally posted by 00PS
You should resarch ALF and ELF

They are the Earth Liberation Front and the

Animal Liberation Front

They employ terrorism against corporations

I support them 100%

You support ELF? I take it that is because you think corporations are inherently evil?

Will you still support ELF when one of their criminal acts results in the death of an innocent?


And btw, by your words I can see you didn't read anything

in this forum.... Thanks for the insults. I hope you get warned!

You seem to get a kick out of seeing those who oppose your viewpoint get warned. Hmm...



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
You seem to get a kick out of seeing those who oppose your viewpoint get warned. Hmm...


I seem to get a kick out of? What gives you that Idea...


Originally posted by PtballDan

What kind of a sick whacked up person are you?

You are a sophomoric pansy

you are is a selfish

You should be ashamed even to exist.


When someone says this to me I do hope they get warned...what, you wouldn't?



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
I take it that is because you think corporations are inherently evil?


And what gives you that idea? You think I am some wreckless maniac that likes to jump into board meetings and give people nices doses of anthrax through double pump action squirt guns?

Do you have a point here? I don't see what you're adding to the conversation besides just questioning me...



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 06:57 PM
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Originally posted by 00PS

Originally posted by jsobecky
I take it that is because you think corporations are inherently evil?


And what gives you that idea? You think I am some wreckless maniac that likes to jump into board meetings and give people nices doses of anthrax through double pump action squirt guns?

Do you have a point here? I don't see what you're adding to the conversation besides just questioning me...


I thought that was maybe the intention of your thread? To get people to ask you questions and for you to reply.



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 06:59 PM
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Originally posted by BikereddieI thought that was maybe the intention of your thread? To get people to ask you questions and for you to reply.


No, I wanted you 3 in worldwatchers thread to understand that I am not an advocate of killing innocent civilians.



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 07:10 PM
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Oops,

You are nothing more then a person with a sophomoric understanding of the world. As with those rich, white kids at ivy league American universities, you feel that one year of college or a few days in a coffee house gives you a complete understanding of the world. You are sad, not informed.

Guerillas...Terrorists... Stop playing with words.

If you blow up non-combatants, shoot civilians, bomb a school house, run a plane into towers you are a criminal.

If you fight against an unlawful organization i.e. the British in America, the French against the Nazis then you are a hero. You might still be called a terrorist but that is propoganda.

BY the way ALF and ELF are terrorists because they hurt innocents and by saying you fully support them then you are just silly and immature.



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 07:15 PM
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Originally posted by 00PS

Originally posted by BikereddieI thought that was maybe the intention of your thread? To get people to ask you questions and for you to reply.


No, I wanted you 3 in worldwatchers thread to understand that I am not an advocate of killing innocent civilians.


But you did say that a terrorist attack would be a good thing.
Does that not advocate the killing of innocent civilians?



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 07:16 PM
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Originally posted by 00PS

Originally posted by jsobecky
I take it that is because you think corporations are inherently evil?


And what gives you that idea? You think I am some wreckless maniac that likes to jump into board meetings and give people nices doses of anthrax through double pump action squirt guns?

Well maybe it was your words here:

You should resarch ALF and ELF

They are the Earth Liberation Front and the

Animal Liberation Front

They employ terrorism against corporations

I support them 100%

Not those greenpeace corporate sellouts

Emphasis was mine.

Do you have a point here? I don't see what you're adding to the conversation besides just questioning me...


I'm adding to the conversation by getting you to clarify your statements. Is there a problem with asking you questions?

You never did answer my question whether you would still support ELF if their criminal acts resulted in the death of an innocent person. Would you?



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 07:22 PM
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Originally posted by booger
Oops,

You are nothing more then a person with a sophomoric understanding of the world. As with those rich, white kids at ivy league American universities, you feel that one year of college or a few days in a coffee house gives you a complete understanding of the world. You are sad, not informed.


You are 100% right, exactly correct...in your mind. Thanks for coming to the conversation. When you want to actually talk with me please let me know. If you talk only to me then I probably wont respond. You think I am priviliged don't you, I'm priviliged to be able to stand up and speak my mind and am priviliged to be in a state of mind where I am ready to die for what I believe?


Guerillas...Terrorists... Stop playing with words.

If you blow up non-combatants, shoot civilians, bomb a school house, run a plane into towers you are a criminal.

If you, If you, If you read the whole of the articles posted in this thread and not just page 2 then we can have a conversation. Then you will also know I am not talking about killing innocent people.




If you fight against an unlawful organization i.e. the British in America, the French against the Nazis then you are a hero. You might still be called a terrorist but that is propoganda.

And thats the point of my thread. But we disagree on what is unlawful. But let's just say we agree that being called a terrorist 'might' be 'could' be 'maybe' is propaganda ...in 'some' circumstances. I emphasize this so you know I am not generalising...you seem to be someone that likes to sum up a person in a nutshell...




BY the way ALF and ELF are terrorists because they hurt innocents and by saying you fully support them then you are just silly and immature.


They are terrorists because they destroy. and it is their policy not to destroy life. So please share what information you have, your sources and what not, that states the AL and EL fronts are engaged in attacks against innocents....

Welcome to the thread and remember...stay positive



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 07:25 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
You never did answer my question whether you would still support ELF if their criminal acts resulted in the death of an innocent person. Would you?


If you understand their organizational structure you would understand they don't have one. So All actions are done by cells, individually. All cells have the responsibility of following the policy of not destroying life. If they break that policy they will be criminal in the eyes of ELF and ALF and the perpetrators will not claim it as an act of the organization.

You can ask me all the questions you want.

And I'm not against corporations, but if you understand who ALF and ELF are you will understand which corporations I am against...thanks!



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 07:38 PM
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Originally posted by 00PS
If you understand their organizational structure you would understand they don't have one. So All actions are done by cells, individually. All cells have the responsibility of following the policy of not destroying life. If they break that policy they will be criminal in the eyes of ELF and ALF and the perpetrators will not claim it as an act of the organization.

So if they accomplish their criminal acts without harming any people then they can take credit for the acts? But if an innocent, like a fireman, is killed while putting out one of their cases of criminal arson, they they disavow all knowledge of it?

If there is no organizatiion. then who eyes will they be criminal in?


And I'm not against corporations, but if you understand who ALF and ELF are you will understand which corporations I am against...thanks!

Like housing developments and apartment complexes?:shk: Worthy foes, I'm sure.



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 07:44 PM
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Maybe you should just research how they work for yourself...I don't know about their actions for the past 3 years since I have been in China, but they were very active where Ilived in the states (Northwest) so...I can't be put into a position to explain them, but yes, when they fulfill their mission and stick to their principals I support them all the way.

The destruction of corporate property is not against people working there, it's against the shareholders who make unethical decisions that impact the people and animals of the world. They are fighting for something right in their mind and I happen to agree.



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by 00PS
First, I believe terrorism is an effectivev weapon against goverments and believe it to be a new label for what I call Guerilla Warfare. I believe a true Revolutionary Warrior must be trained and understand the tactics of Guerilla Warfare. In my thoughts I am labeled a terrorist for the way I would fight the goverment would utilize Guerilla Warfare.

Second, I believe the current Terrorism is orchestrated by covert operatives. Yes there are some palestinian men, some chechnyen men, some syrian men, some iraqi men who are committing acts of terrorism. There are also american men and israeli men and russian men who orchestrate these attacks just to justify retaliation, rape, torture, and murder.

The purpose I make this thread is because of the confusion around the words terrorism. When I say I would like more terrorism it means I would like more people to be involved in the fight for liberation of the planet. But too many people are even scared of a meaning of a word that has been force fed to them and they have accepted.

BOMB THE EARTH - WORLD WIDE UNITY - UNITE TO FIGHT

Terrorism (Guerilla warfare, as defined by you), is one way, of possibly many other ways, to fight the tyranny of a specific Government. But, if a revolutionary warrior is to try to change the Government over him, he is fighting against a power base made of those people who control Corporations and National Militaries. I think, today, using Guerilla warfare would only be good in small circumstances, but that a major revolution requires something much greater. It would require a leader, of course, but a leader who values the potential of a human life. The leader would be one who advocates peaceful means of terrorism against the Government, i.e. no violence against another human being. For example, this leader of the pack says that they should boycott paying taxes, or boycott using a particular service which is profitable to the power base (tyranny) of a Nation--which is at the expense of some other people or life.

You said the current terrorism is orchestrated by covert ops. You're right on this one, in my opinion. People are just too afraid to admit their Governments could kill their own.

Since we believe that the majority of the current terrorism is orchestrated by covert ops, let's not follow their evil and cruel ways. Liberation can only happen when it values the dignity of humanity, therefore, liberation through a new form of warfare is required. Like I mentioned above, only when it values the potential of human life and is detrimental to the tyranny at large.



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 08:09 PM
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Yeah! Thank you! I learned something from what you had to offer. Thank you. Really.

I lost friends in the movement because I discussed violence as a means when they are non-violent we had to part. Of course I am and have been non violent. The only experience in violence have been the lessons learned from riot police kicking our behind. We must be open to the possibility of violence but lead with our hearts and keep our guns on our backs.

Nice to meet you.



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 08:23 PM
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If you don't mind me saying so, being a Republican and a ELF /ALF supporter seem to be mutually exclusive, if not psychotic positions to hold at the same time.

If these corporations are so offensive, why not devise legal means to thwart or oppose them. Why would you let them make you a criminal or resort to extralegal means to violate thier stockholder's rights?

I believe that the original "guerillas" were Spanish small forces opposing Napolean's forces by attacking uniformed French soldiers that were campaigning in thier country. I'm not sure they went much beyond that in attacking people or property other than what was a military objective.

The problem with your line of argument as I see it is that by waging this kind of war you are embracing anarchy. What's to stop another group dedicated to destroying people with your point of view from carrying out violent actions against you? The same laws your group doesn't respect?



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by Realist05
If you don't mind me saying so, being a Republican
and a ELF /ALF supporter seem to be mutually exclusive, if not psychotic positions to hold at the same time.

If these corporations are so offensive, why not devise legal means to thwart or oppose them. Why would you let them make you a criminal or resort to extralegal means to violate thier stockholder's rights?

I believe that the original "guerillas" were Spanish small forces opposing Napolean's forces by attacking uniformed French soldiers that were campaigning in thier country. I'm not sure they went much beyond that in attacking people or property other than what was a military objective.

The problem with your line of argument as I see it is that by waging this kind of war you are embracing anarchy. What's to stop another group dedicated to destroying people with your point of view from carrying out violent actions against you? The same laws your group doesn't respect?


Republican by upbringingl. Conservative Christian Right Wing family...I am called liberal in my views by some but if I had to choose I would vote Republican. I voted for Bush in 2000 but was in China for 2004, I would have never voted for Kerry, so I just didn't vote. I voted for Bush because one he is better than Gore and two I knew he was going to win. Why vote for someone you know is going to lose...Voting sucks anyways! The people who vote don't have power, its the people who count the votes that too.

legal means to fight a legal corprate entity. Well these legal corporations break the legal laws and get away with it. Do you think the law wil help you bring them down then. Your name is realist, be real man. Don't just argue for arguing's sake. Admit it, some corporations operate outside the law. Read a good book, "When Corporations Rule the World"

attacking people I think it's the 16th time in this posting I have to say this: I never said attack people. But I will attack the bad people


embracing anarchy I dunno about it. Most of what I know is the propaganda people want me to think...'agitators' 'disruptive' 'evil' but I have been reading some things about anarchy and they're good. For example, Chinese Anarchist Ba Jin. He wrote about Family in the 1930's but his thought is labeled anarchy, HE WROTE ABOUT FAMILY!?!? So I am investigating it...as for assurances about violent groups who want to kill people, we have none, they are all over the world...and forgive me, I haven't slept in over 24 hours so I must pass out for about 10 hours now.



posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 07:10 AM
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I used "attacking people" in terms of these groups, not you personally. A Republican anti-corporatist does seem a little inconsistant, but that's fine, I have issues with a lot of what big corporations do to, including Microsoft, whose fine product I'm using right now and whose chairman is a big contributor to the Democratic party and whose business practices are hardly exemplory.

As for the law, if you see it as wrong or being broken, the man-ly thing from my perspective is to stand up openly and oppose it and deal with the consequences. MLK spent a lot of jail time doing so, but gained a lot of moral authority and won a lot of hearts and minds over to his point of view. He paid the ultimate price for his viewpoint but I think you'd find very few people who would contest the rightness of his stand today, even in the republican party.

Injustices can be righted when enough people stand up and say no; committing stealthy acts of civil disobedience might enthuse a few fellow conspirators, I don't believe it encourages people to join in.

I have participated in petition drives, township and zoning fights for many years now, and lose a lot more than win, but fighting fair has it's own rewards.

As to the rise of corporatism, I too am concerned, but statism doesn't seem to offer much of an alternative.



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