Today (Feminism)

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Corinthians, one verse out of Corinthians, written in a letter to the church in Corinth that was having trouble with issues pertaining to women Seriously you want to apply the writing of Paul to the Corinthian church to all women today?

Of course not. I think the bible is BS. But a good amount of Christians take it literally, so yeah, many folks DO exactly that.

You have little to no comprehension skills. I see very few people apply systematic theology to just one verse in the bible and take the whole context of that verse and apply it to all Christians today

There are dozens of other verses that say similarly oppressive things and no I'm not applying it to all Christians, just explaining that the fundamentalists think everything in the bible is infallible word of god, so that verse is part of it. Back before women's suffrage that was a majority position here in the US.

Everyone is oppressed,M that's life, not everyone is oppressed by the law
Taking it to a personal level when the op video wasn't, context and comprehension Barcs
Cheap flags, stars and point scoring, childish

Huh? You made a false statement and I corrected it. If you instead said that SOME women ARE still oppressed rather than saying they are not, it would have made more sense, but it's true that many still are. I'm well aware that it has improved. I'm not here for points or scoring and I saw the video and I'm well aware of the myths related to new wave feminism, but to suggest women are no longer oppressed is completely false. They still are, but not as badly.

originally posted by: Barcs
I'm not here for points or scoring and I saw the video and I'm well aware of the myths related to new wave feminism, but to suggest women are no longer oppressed is completely false. They still are, but not as badly.

Nobody seems to be particularly willing to explain just how I'm supposed to be oppressed still. Care to take a shot at it?

I'm able to marry whom I choose, and divorce whom I choose at my whim.

I'm able to own and sell property at my whim.

I'm able to vote at my whim.

I'm able to choose to work or be a SAH at my whim.

I'm able to choose the profession of my liking, if I beat out other candidates for it (side note: as a SAH with a huge work history gap, I'm very understandably at the bottom of the candidate choice piles. That is NOT oppression, that is a lack of currently applicable skills.)

Even so, if I'm not able to land a job I want, I have the luxury of complaining to the media, causing a stir, and gaining my employment by means of public pressure & coercion nowadays. I personally wouldn't stoop to that kind of low, but most other women damn sure would.

I really don't feel oppressed at all. If you were meaning to say globally, you should have made the distinction.

originally posted by: Nyiah
Nobody seems to be particularly willing to explain just how I'm supposed to be oppressed still. Care to take a shot at it?

The USA has been consistently in the top 10 in terms of rape/sexual assault per capita. Is raping a woman, not oppressing her? I agree that it is definitely improving and I know some of the stats are blown out of proportion (ie the "every 7 seconds" argument), but it still happens here on a consistent basis. I mean would you be comfortable walking around at night alone in a major US city?

Again, I'm not saying women are treated like slaves or anything like that. I know it has improved tremendously, just that some women ARE still discriminated against and oppressed. I don't see how anybody can really deny that. I totally understand that you personally are not oppressed and legally you have the same rights, but many people are.

I really don't feel oppressed at all. If you were meaning to say globally, you should have made the distinction.

I meant here in the US. Yeah, it is much worse in many other countries but US was #4 in 2018 in sexual assault crimes per capita. That is HORRIBLE for a country like ours that is 1st world and considered "free."

a reply to: Barcs

Some do Barcs but not many
My point is that the West based on Christs teachings have women in a very equal position in society. Better than just about anywhere else at any time
Why is that comment lost on you?

Women’s suffrage was supported by men and Christianity, gonstudy
I am sure plenty of atheist fundamentalists hated equality, typical righteous better than everyone atheists lauding it over everyone else.

I didn’t make a false statement, related to the op it was valid

You took it out of context, comprehension issue I guess
I will dumb it down in future.
I forget where I am sometimes

a reply to: Barcs

So your taking individual actions like the criminal act of rape and suggesting that it’s indicative of how men treat women?
Sounds like your country has a spiritual vacuum, that it has no soul, no fear of God

Irrespective, rape is a crime punishable in a court of law

That’s a crime not a reflection of the society and equality

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: Raggedyman

You can believe anything you like about lutheran reformation , where as I find it a very different story

Scotland was thrown into centuries of bloody violence because of sectarian reform of christianity!

I'm guessing you dont know much about that , but you can read up on it , sectarian violence still prevails today , and could even erupt again if Brexit affects a hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland , the troubles could resurface in Ireland
and once more spill into the United Kingdom.

You are aware of the troubles in Ireland, which saw terrorism across the UK and Ireland .

Also before that we had nearly 300 years of sectarian violence in the UK as a direct result of reformation

I've seen people get nearly kicked to death because of what religion they are, I've seen people stabbed for it
and that is modern sectarian violence, our past was far bloodier!

Lutheran reform did nothing to illuminate us , it was the renaissance and the period of enlightenment after wards that did !

It's all good , you have a different opinion of that period in history , compared to me
you keep believing as you see fit !

I cant acknowledge that because it isnt true !

Again, repeating myself, really
If I say you have a learning disability, comprehension issue I am insulting you but you are still repeating yourself about what I have acknowledged over and over

Not to smart sapien are you
You are your own worst enemy

What did the renaissance do to improve political systems, education for the poor and medical treatment of the poor

Please do tell 🤔😁😆😂

Love to hear an answer to that,

originally posted by: Barcs
Nobody seems to be particularly willing to explain just how I'm supposed to be oppressed still. Care to take a shot at it?
The USA has been consistently in the top 10 in terms of rape/sexual assault per capita. Is raping a woman, not oppressing her? I agree that it is definitely improving and I know some of the stats are blown out of proportion (ie the "every 7 seconds" argument), but it still happens here on a consistent basis. I mean would you be comfortable walking around at night alone in a major US city?

Would you as a man (if you are a man; if you're a woman, imagine you're a man) be comfortable walking around at night ALONE in a major city? I wouldn't if I were a man. Men are a lot more likely to be murdered or mugged.

And no. Rape is not oppression. It's a violent crime committed by individual criminals, not a systemic method of "keeping women in their place." Men are murdered far more often than women; does that mean men are oppressed? Same logic.

I meant here in the US. Yeah, it is much worse in many other countries but US was #4 in 2018 in sexual assault crimes per capita. That is HORRIBLE for a country like ours that is 1st world and considered "free."

That's probably because here in the U.S. simply telling someone, "Wow, you look hot" or touching her on the arm can result in sexual assault charges if you complain loudly enough. I mean seriously, we ARE the country where a few years ago a kindergartener was charged with "sexual assault" for kissing another kindergartener on the cheek...which is beyond obscene.

originally posted by: Barcs
I mean would you be comfortable walking around at night alone in a major US city?

Good lord, that's not oppression, that's crime. But while you're on the wrong rant track to begin with....

I used to live on the "good" side of the railroad tracks separating a ghetto from the slightly better off area next to it. Crime spilled over often. I had no fears walking through the neighborhood at night, let alone cutting through the neighborhood park at night to get home faster. Hell yeah, there were dealers hiding in their woodsy sale spots in there, but they weren't going to risk losing their sales for the night futzing with the white chick walking home from work. That's bad for biz.

Be aware of your surroundings -- learn to look with your peripheral vision and learn to listen acutely to every individual sound, and know the area you're in like back of your hand in the event you need to run for it. Don't flash anything proverbially shiny a would-be mugger might associate with a full wallet, and don't look unsure of yourself, that smells of being an easy target. For the most part, you'll do fine minding the aforementioned in any major city at night.

But I have a feeling you're the type who'd rather barricade herself inside for eternity, lest she cross paths with someone potentially iffy. That must be a sucky way to live life.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
So your taking individual actions like the criminal act of rape and suggesting that it’s indicative of how men treat women?

YES! What else is that indicative of when your country is ranked 4th in the entire world in sexual assault crimes? I know all men don't rape women, but in the US, the rate is higher than most other countries. That's a problem and yes that is men oppressing women directly. I'm not saying it's built into the law or our society or anything like that, but it's a big issue.

originally posted by: riiver
And no. Rape is not oppression. It's a violent crime committed by individual criminals, not a systemic method of "keeping women in their place." Men are murdered far more often than women; does that mean men are oppressed? Same logic.

I never said it was systematic, but it's been part of the culture for a very long time. There are many types of oppression, it's possible for one person to oppress another, it doesn't have to be the government. The point is that women are still not treated equally by many men, and I'm not saying that ALL men do it, but it IS still an issue here.

That's probably because here in the U.S. simply telling someone, "Wow, you look hot" or touching her on the arm can result in sexual assault charges if you complain loudly enough.

That's a really poor excuse. The statistics are based on rape and physical sexual assault, not harassment or verbal assault and they are not even close to the same thing.

originally posted by: Nyiah
Be aware of your surroundings -- learn to look with your peripheral vision and learn to listen acutely to every individual sound, and know the area you're in like back of your hand in the event you need to run for it. Don't flash anything proverbially shiny a would-be mugger might associate with a full wallet, and don't look unsure of yourself, that smells of being an easy target. For the most part, you'll do fine minding the aforementioned in any major city at night.

But I have a feeling you're the type who'd rather barricade herself inside for eternity, lest she cross paths with someone potentially iffy. That must be a sucky way to live life.

Obviously one needs to be smart, but none of that is fool proof. I'm a man and I have walked around at night in many cities, but if I was female I wouldn't because in reality you are an easier target for a late night sleezebag looking to get his rocks off or who knows what else. I applaud your bravery and that is all great advice, but why do you think those precautions are necessary in the first place?

And believe me, I'm the furthest thing from SJW, but people take that anti-SJW mentality to the extreme and use it to ignore the fact that we nearly lead the world in rape here or pretend that women are not discriminated against here. They definitely still are, although I fully admit it has improved drastically.

originally posted by: Barcs

originally posted by: Raggedyman
So your taking individual actions like the criminal act of rape and suggesting that it’s indicative of how men treat women?

YES! What else is that indicative of when your country is ranked 4th in the entire world in sexual assault crimes? I know all men don't rape women, but in the US, the rate is higher than most other countries. That's a problem and yes that is men oppressing women directly. I'm not saying it's built into the law or our society or anything like that, but it's a big issue.

I would argue those stats
I would say that more of these crimes are reported in the US than other countries because women feel protected
In many other countries I think the average woman wouldn't report the crime

Anyway, men oppress women and women oppress men, it's a broken world

It's a huge issue, globaly

a reply to: Raggedyman

the renaissance is well documented you can look it up i'm not here to give you a personal history lesson!

but funny once again you change the goal posts!

First we discussed the birth of science , you said it was supported by Lutheran reform and the reformation of christianity in Europe, but there is vast amounts of evidence which shows that it halted progress in Europe rather than ushered in a new age of humanity.
You then Switched it to the treatment of the poor and medical issues .

Once your point has been countered you switch the argument to something else

As for my learning ability , do you find joy in making fun of others with learning difficulties ?
it seems so , you have repeatedly made reference to my "inability " to learn

you do know that its discriminatory and illegal to abuse others for having learning difficulties!

and on that note I bid you farewell as I dont suffer fools and I wont spend any more time conversing with someone
who thinks its ok to make fun of people with learning difficulties


stick yer lutheran reform up yer jacksie

"If you think properly of the Gospel, please don't imagine that its cause can be advanced without tumult, offence and sedition... The word of God is a sword, it's war, ruin, offence, perdition and poison. If I am immoderate, at least I am simple and open." Martin Luther on Protestantism (1520).

I'm my opinion Luther was a mass murderer, he knowingly caused the reformation with full knowledge many thousands would die by the sword in religious wars !

a reply to: sapien82

I just asked for evidence
You have to comprehend the question, then research the evidence then present the evidence

There are certain types of people I wouldn’t accept their opinions
Doesn’t mean I don’t believe you believe those opinions you hold are valid to you, just don’t think you are a trustworthy source


I seem to be repeating myself, as I said, Luther got some of it wrong, comprehension skills seem to be lacking.

a reply to: Raggedyman

these aren't my opinions they are well documented Facts! no research on my part required, if its well known researched historical fact!
You need to do the leg work yourself if you want to educate yourself on those subjects, I'm not here to hold your hand down history lane and spoon feed you facts just so you can then try and tell me I am wrong because you changed the goal posts of your arguement once again when new information directly conflicts with your own world view

30 years wars, well documented historical fact
Wars of reformation , well documented historical fact
Ireland sectarian/political troubles well documented historical fact
The renaissance well documented historical fact
The enlightenment well documented historical fact

if you cant be arsed to check them out for yourself then that's on you !

The only thing in my posts which was my opinion , was the creation of monotheism to subjugate pagan cultures
through indoctrination !

everything else I have mentioned is factual and can be researched by yourself.

As for your turnaround statements on Luther , saying on one hand how great reformation was , then I stated that 8million died as a result of the 30 years war, and that sectarian violence continues to this day!
The you come out with that he was no saint because I called you on it

You change your tune like the wind

Also I have sense enough to leave this be and just ignore you now , does that suggest I have learning difficulties
I think not !

Good day !

a reply to: TheElectricPriest

From my own perspective feminists only want equality when it suits them.

Most Woman i come across expect to be treated like a lady.

Men and Woman are not equal both have there positive and negative attributes to consider.

a reply to: sapien82

Show me the evidence where the Renaissance birthed education and medical for all, where the Renaissance reformed the authorities of the day. Changed the way governments and political systems ran
YOU CANT BECAUSE the Renaissance didn't do that

Your comprehension skills are atrocious, you bemoan me when simple English is beyond your capacity

Again sapien, Luther made mistakes but we live in a far better society now than before Luther and if you were not such a petty whiney atheist



I didn't aske or needed to ask for evidence about Luther and the church getting it wrong, why
Why? BECAUSE I already knew, why would I need evidence about what I already knew and wasn't arguing about

The more you say the worse you look sapien, the more you make a fool of yourself

a reply to: Raggedyman

Obviously old Martin and the Reformation never went far enough.

Considering the continued existence of the Vatican and Holy Roman Church of St Peter.

There coffers and vaults are still full to the brim and there pedophile priest cast still to this day beasting weans all over the globe.

Same crap slightly different wrapping paper if truth be told.

And if our respective societies are that good then why are they teetering on the brink of socio-economic stagnation and ready to tear themselves apart?

a reply to: Raggedyman

My intelligence or my beliefs have nothing to do with the facts which you cannot dispute.
If you even knew anything about the things i've used as counter to reformation you wouldn't even be asking me.

now as I have already addressed I will no longer converse with the likes of you
you are discriminatory against those with disabilities and that doesn't fly in my book.

You'd think being a christian you'd be more tolerant of those less fortunate than yourself

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Raggedyman

Obviously old Martin and the Reformation never went far enough.

Considering the continued existence of the Vatican and Holy Roman Church of St Peter.

There coffers and vaults are still full to the brim and there pedophile priest cast still to this day beasting weans all over the globe.

Same crap slightly different wrapping paper if truth be told.

And if our respective societies are that good then why are they teetering on the brink of socio-economic stagnation and ready to tear themselves apart?

Yes ANDY I tend to agree but imagine the death toll and all the moaning atheists who can't understand and accept that overthrowing tyranny has a price
Imagine all the sooky la la atheists howling at the moon.

Yes, still an issue, still a problem the church, Christians, we are all still making mistakes, no argument.

But if everyone listened to Jesus, accepted the gospel, listened to Paul and the NT, things would be better
Our respective societies are not that good, greed and selfishness reign, but, it's better in the West than where Luthers Protestantism didn't take hold
Disagree?

Look at the catholic countries and the MESS they are in
Spain, basket case. Italy, still a peasent society, South America, an utter mess, Philippines- (yeah the US botched that) Catholic tyranny, what did I miss?
Can you name a good atheist society outside Stalins Russia, Maos Chine or Pol Pot ...

Even the Orthodox countries are struggling