Today (Feminism)

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Barcs

That’s right barcs absolutely

Women were by white men,
As I stated over and over it wasn’t till after the reformation and Martin Luther teaching what Christ taught did the pressure ease of women
Did women star to receive equality

Had nothing to do with pagans, with Catholics or whatever

Argue away

Dude, women couldn't even vote until 1920, let alone hold positions of influence / power, 400 years after Martin Luther started the reformation. We still haven't had a female president. They weren't treated equal for a long time after that. Giving women equal rights came from women fighting and protesting it for decades.

And to say that women are not oppressed today in western culture is laughable. Yeah, it's better than other places, but have you looked at the rape statistics? Women can't walk alone in pretty much ANY city in the western world without being at risk. It's bad, and yes the original inspiration of women being treated like lesser people comes directly from the bible.

originally posted by: LSU2018

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Funny I just got abused by a feminist in another thread about how bad women had it in the West today
Women have never had it so good in history as we know it as I understand

There seems a serious agenda against men at the moment
Great video, speaks volumes

No minority or gay has it bad in America like they try to say they do. God help those who are white men or people who don't follow the radical ideology.

This is laughably wrong.

a reply to: Raggedyman

think you're a bit optimistic, ive had to fight discrimination at work,and WOMEN died to achieve the gains we've made.

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
a reply to: Raggedyman

think you're a bit optimistic, ive had to fight discrimination at work,and WOMEN died to achieve the gains we've made.

It’s not over, I have fought discrimination as well.
My point is and please understand it

Women have never had it so good in history and believe it or not
Men have been the instigators also

originally posted by: Barcs

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Barcs

That’s right barcs absolutely

Women were by white men,
As I stated over and over it wasn’t till after the reformation and Martin Luther teaching what Christ taught did the pressure ease of women
Did women star to receive equality

Had nothing to do with pagans, with Catholics or whatever

Argue away

Dude, women couldn't even vote until 1920, let alone hold positions of influence / power, 400 years after Martin Luther started the reformation. We still haven't had a female president. They weren't treated equal for a long time after that. Giving women equal rights came from women fighting and protesting it for decades.

And to say that women are not oppressed today in western culture is laughable. Yeah, it's better than other places, but have you looked at the rape statistics? Women can't walk alone in pretty much ANY city in the western world without being at risk. It's bad, and yes the original inspiration of women being treated like lesser people comes directly from the bible.

I am talking to ears of corn

I didn’t say women were not oppressed today
But they are far more equal today than ever before

The seed of that equality was written in the bible and tended by Luther and the Protestant church

What did you think the change would just happen over night, Luther would preach and every mind would change instantly

originally posted by: LSU2018

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Funny I just got abused by a feminist in another thread about how bad women had it in the West today
Women have never had it so good in history as we know it as I understand

There seems a serious agenda against men at the moment
Great video, speaks volumes

No minority or gay has it bad in America like they try to say they do. God help those who are white men or people who don't follow the radical ideology.

As a generalisation I think that is a fair point
Recognised by the government, accepted by the media, welcomed by the general population its hard to argue but on an individual basis
Hard to justify that statement

I know what you mean

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: Raggedyman

Is that so !

You didn't mention Westboro because I did , I never said once you did !
I never made mention of modern religions in western civilisation you did !

Yes you said that science did well because of the Lutheran reformation, I then explained that the Lutheran reformation
also lead to the 30 years war, one of the most bloodiest periods of European history with more than 8 million dead from war , famine disease and poverty as a result !
Which was counter to your arguement because how many of those 8 million if educated would have advanced science
Religion during this period and periods before suppressed science as Heresy, black magic !

If anyone has put you down this track its yourself !


#Apologies to the OP for thread drift

You have issues

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Carcharadon

Yes we did create it and I am glad we as western white men did but I don’t particularly like the feminists denying what they do have

Dont expect us to be grateful !!! We fought for every inch of our equality.

As a ^^^^*western white man* ^^^^ you should be glad of the benefits

you reap from same. '

'

Eh, as a woman who has a son ... I am eagerly watching the results of the slew of Title IX suits being filed. My "toxic" white male son will need all the help he can get in this current culture. In fact, he might have to fight as hard as you or I ever did in order to get even a share of what the girls will be handed when he arrives at college.

a reply to: TheElectricPriest

Great post!

This also brings up the problem of groups wishing to punish people now, for things that happened before they were born and are no longer happening, or happening far, far less. The irrationality of that is almost breathtaking.

Political wedge issues are seldom based on reality and usually based on what was, not on what is.

It's not just men, women issues either and we all need to stop and consider we are being kept at each others throats not to benefit us, but to benefit others agenda's.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
I didn’t say women were not oppressed today
But they are far more equal today than ever before

You said:

You said women are oppressed in the West today and that’s a stupid comment, they are not

So yeah you said that exact statement, but hey I'm just an ear of corn apparently.

The seed of that equality was written in the bible and tended by Luther and the Protestant church

The bible specifically said that women are to be subordinates to men and are not to speak in church. This is right in Corinthians and that is the real reason it took so long to even allow them to be priests or vote or gain equal rights.

originally posted by: Barcs

originally posted by: Raggedyman
I didn’t say women were not oppressed today
But they are far more equal today than ever before

You said:

You said women are oppressed in the West today and that’s a stupid comment, they are not

So yeah you said that exact statement, but hey I'm just an ear of corn apparently.

The seed of that equality was written in the bible and tended by Luther and the Protestant church

The bible specifically said that women are to be subordinates to men and are not to speak in church. This is right in Corinthians and that is the real reason it took so long to even allow them to be priests or vote or gain equal rights.

Corinthians, one verse out of Corinthians, written in a letter to the church in Corinth that was having trouble with issues pertaining to women
Seriously you want to apply the writing of Paul to the Corinthian church to all women today?
You have little to no comprehension skills. I see very few people apply systematic theology to just one verse in the bible and take the whole context of that verse and apply it to all Christians today
Just shows how unskilled in comprehension you are, how devoid of understanding Christianity.

Of course women are going to be oppressed, to say otherwise is silly but they are not oppressed by the government, lawmakers, courts in any way different to men.

You are just bickering to win an argument

Go watch the op video and bleat about oppression of women again

Everyone is oppressed,M that's life, not everyone is oppressed by the law
Taking it to a personal level when the op video wasn't, context and comprehension Barcs
Cheap flags, stars and point scoring, childish

originally posted by: Barcs

originally posted by: Raggedyman
I didn’t say women were not oppressed today
But they are far more equal today than ever before

You said:

You said women are oppressed in the West today and that’s a stupid comment, they are not

So yeah you said that exact statement, but hey I'm just an ear of corn apparently.

The seed of that equality was written in the bible and tended by Luther and the Protestant church

The bible specifically said that women are to be subordinates to men and are not to speak in church. This is right in Corinthians and that is the real reason it took so long to even allow them to be priests or vote or gain equal rights.

Corinthians, one verse out of Corinthians, written in a letter to the church in Corinth that was having trouble with issues pertaining to women
Seriously you want to apply the writing of Paul to the Corinthian church to all women today?
You have little to no comprehension skills. I see very few people apply systematic theology to just one verse in the bible and take the whole context of that verse and apply it to all Christians today
Just shows how unskilled in comprehension you are, how devoid of understanding Christianity.

Of course women are going to be oppressed, to say otherwise is silly but they are not oppressed by the government, lawmakers, courts in any way different to men.

You are just bickering to win an argument

Go watch the op video and bleat about oppression of women again

Everyone is oppressed,M that's life, not everyone is oppressed by the law
Taking it to a personal level when the op video wasn't, context and comprehension Barcs
Cheap flags, stars and point scoring, childish

Wow, great video. That red-haired woman was absolutely not having it when she found out it wasn't all about "feminism" after all, was she? She's like, "Nope, I'm not reading these words because they don't agree with my agenda." Wow.

To me, that was the most striking part of the video. The other white women were kind of taken aback to begin with, then stopped and thought about it and finally said, "Wow, I learned something new." The black woman started to get annoyed but in the end stopped and considered too. The man was all, "OH MY GOD, THIS IS ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING PERTINENT TO MEN! YEAH!" But the redhead...oh no. It didn't make any difference at all that what she was reading was facts. Once she realized what was going on, she just refused to participate.

Re-watching to make sure I saw what I thought I saw and heard what I thought I heard...

Yep, I saw it and heard it. At about 2:45 she says, "Everyone knows that women make less than men. We've all worked. We've all done the same job as men and for whatever reason have earned less......"

I'm flabbergasted.

I mean, everyone knows that women make less than men, right? Let's just ignore facts and statistics. They're irrelevant. When you average together the paychecks of a female server, a female teacher, and a female customer service rep and compare them to the paychecks of a male construction worker, a male engineer, and a male tree-trimmer (who's statistically a lot more likely to be killed at work than any of the others), those poor women! They make so much less per hour!

Or you can average the earnings of 5 female nurses (two of whom are single moms who never do overtime because of kids, and one of whom had a baby during the year and took 6 weeks maternity leave) with 5 of their male co-workers (2 single, 1 married with no kids, 2 married with kids; all of whom work overtime when available)--oh my goodness! The men make so much more! It's oppression, I tell you! Those poor women are being paid 70 cents on the dollar to what the men make!

It couldn't possibly be that women often take lower-paying jobs (by choice, even--remember the stat about the lowest-paying majors being primarily filled with women) and take lots more time off thanks to kids. (That's the "reason" in the "for whatever reason" part of her statement, btw.)

Nope. Couldn't possibly be that. Couldn't possibly be that the so-called wage gap, where it does actually exist, is largely due to women's own choices (to have kids, be single moms, take lower-paying jobs because of children, etc.) Nope, it's all because women are oppressed and if you say any of the things I said above then you're all for holding women down.

Horse hockey.

We may have "done the same job as men and for whatever reason earned less" but that reason was NOT, as the feminist party line implies, because we worked for a lesser wage. It was because of our own choices. It was because we didn't work the overtime the men did, we took time off to go to little Jimmy's play, we took that maternity leave, or were just plain tired and not willing to work ourselves to death like some of the men. Now, don't get me wrong; none of those are bad things. Nothing wrong with not taking that overtime and spending that Saturday with your kids or whatever. (And nothing wrong with the man choosing to do it either!) It's just disingenuous to imply that women make less per hour than men when you're comparing apples and oranges. (Or servers and engineers.)

It was encouraging to see the other women stop and think about the statistics they were reading. It was really amazing to see the light bulbs going on over their heads. But it was really, really disheartening to hear that ridiculous comment come out of Redhead's mouth, and to see how she just dismissed the facts out of hand because she didn't like them.

Were women oppressed in the past? Hell yes. We were oppressed every bit as much as black people were--and like it or not, as recently too. But let's face it, ladies--we got what we asked for. We have equality, and we have had for 2 going on 3 generations now. In fact, the pendulum has swung far enough that it's on its way in the other direction and there are several areas where men are now second-class citizens for all practical purposes--which is a topic for another thread entirely.

And yet, feminists are still fighting. For what? What do you fight for, when you've achieved your goals?

A friend of mine once asked me if I was a feminist. Shocked, I said good lord no, I don't want to be associated with those psychos; I've lived X years, I'm a single mom, and not once in my life have I been discriminated against because I'm a woman (though I HAVE been discriminated against because I'm poor.) Then he said, "Do you think women should be treated the same as everybody else?" and I said, duh, of course I did. And he, wise man that he was, said, "Then you're a feminist. That's all it means."

And that IS all it means. But I guess Redhead didn't get the memo. At the end of the video, after being presented with all these statistics showing that women really aren't hard-done-by in the U.S., she just refuses to read anymore and says, "I thought this was like, a feminist vid. Is this the point of this? Really?" Absolutely not open to any facts that don't fit her agenda.

I propose a new term for the groups pushing the idea that western women are still oppressed and need more, special rights. The ones who say we should just believe any sexual allegations a woman brings against a man, with no proof, who imply that women are discriminated against when it comes to pay, etc. They're not feminists, because the feminist battle was won in my mother's time. Let's call them what they are: female supremacists.

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: Raggedyman

Is that so !

You didn't mention Westboro because I did , I never said once you did !
I never made mention of modern religions in western civilisation you did !

Yes you said that science did well because of the Lutheran reformation, I then explained that the Lutheran reformation
also lead to the 30 years war, one of the most bloodiest periods of European history with more than 8 million dead from war , famine disease and poverty as a result !
Which was counter to your arguement because how many of those 8 million if educated would have advanced science
Religion during this period and periods before suppressed science as Heresy, black magic !

If anyone has put you down this track its yourself !


#Apologies to the OP for thread drift

You have issues

Aye my issue is with you and your inability to debate your point and you resort to personal insults because you cant argue your point !

You have now dragged this into two threads !
You said I abused you , which is rubbish , you just didnt like my posts because they directly conflict with your own personal opinion

Every single post of yours to me includes an insult to my intelligence

"The rest of your comments are churlish and undeserving an adult reply"

"Feminists like you are delusional"

"No thanks Sapien, you are ignorant and not worth the time"

"Seriously are you a little special "

"You are base ignorant"

"What’s your comprehension issue"

Any other ATS member can see, you cant argue your own opinion , so you resort to personal insults

you have argued like a petulant child with other members on ATS across a couple of threads.

originally posted by: sapien82

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: Raggedyman

Is that so !

You didn't mention Westboro because I did , I never said once you did !
I never made mention of modern religions in western civilisation you did !

Yes you said that science did well because of the Lutheran reformation, I then explained that the Lutheran reformation
also lead to the 30 years war, one of the most bloodiest periods of European history with more than 8 million dead from war , famine disease and poverty as a result !
Which was counter to your arguement because how many of those 8 million if educated would have advanced science
Religion during this period and periods before suppressed science as Heresy, black magic !

If anyone has put you down this track its yourself !


#Apologies to the OP for thread drift

You have issues

Aye my issue is with you and your inability to debate your point and you resort to personal insults because you cant argue your point !

You have now dragged this into two threads !
You said I abused you , which is rubbish , you just didnt like my posts because they directly conflict with your own personal opinion

Every single post of yours to me includes an insult to my intelligence

"The rest of your comments are churlish and undeserving an adult reply"

"Feminists like you are delusional"

"No thanks Sapien, you are ignorant and not worth the time"

"Seriously are you a little special "

"You are base ignorant"

"What’s your comprehension issue"

Any other ATS member can see, you cant argue your own opinion , so you resort to personal insults

you have argued like a petulant child with other members on ATS across a couple of threads.

Sorry you think they are insults, they are legitimate criticisms, stop and think before putting your foot in your mouth

You have no capacity to reason, stop it, go study
There is nothing wrong with being ignorant, there is something wrong with remaining ignorant

You keep saying Luther was not perfect, I know, never said he was
You say -The church is bad, yep no argument
I agree, why go on at me like I don’t agree, we established that I agree and you keep moaning

If you don’t understand that you are ignorant, lack comprehension skills
If you can’t understand my position you are a little special

And if you think the New Testament part of the bible didn’t make women equal to men you are ignorant of what it teaches

I can justify everything I have said, stop it

Here is a tip, go away, educate yourself, your position is untenable based on history

a reply to: Raggedyman

You are a liar !

You state one thing then change it as soon as you get called on it !

Im no entertaining your ego anymore

awa an bile yer heid

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: Raggedyman

You are a liar !

You state one thing then change it as soon as you get called on it !

Im no entertaining your ego anymore

awa an bile yer heid

Agai I have said the church has failed, that Luther made mistakes,M agreed, said I already knew

Again you moaned the same and same again

But, Luthers reforms turned the dark ages into the Western civilisation we have now

You just can't acknowledge that because it boils your blood
I am pretty amazed by Luther, respect him greatly, done his best in a tough time

a reply to: Raggedyman

You can believe anything you like about lutheran reformation , where as I find it a very different story

Scotland was thrown into centuries of bloody violence because of sectarian reform of christianity!

I'm guessing you dont know much about that , but you can read up on it , sectarian violence still prevails today , and could even erupt again if Brexit affects a hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland , the troubles could resurface in Ireland
and once more spill into the United Kingdom.

You are aware of the troubles in Ireland, which saw terrorism across the UK and Ireland .

Also before that we had nearly 300 years of sectarian violence in the UK as a direct result of reformation

I've seen people get nearly kicked to death because of what religion they are, I've seen people stabbed for it
and that is modern sectarian violence, our past was far bloodier!

Lutheran reform did nothing to illuminate us , it was the renaissance and the period of enlightenment after wards that did !

It's all good , you have a different opinion of that period in history , compared to me
you keep believing as you see fit !

I cant acknowledge that because it isnt true !

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: Raggedyman
No ones bitchin elithea, well except the feminists who just want more and more and more
I have daughters and I hope the best for them

Your daughters will have the best but not because you hope it for them

but because of the women who fought for them to have it.

It's an old line, and i'm sick and tired of it being the only viable defense trotted out.

I owe no one any thanks. Neither do my daughters. None of that s# happened recently, it's well-established now, from property and voting rights to workplace rights.

Ergo, it's time for feminists to find a new trick to haul out. NONE of them (3rd wave) fought for what we "have" today. They're neither the pioneers nor politicians giving us those rights. Even the pioneers and politicians are afforded a time limit for prostrating at their feet in thanks. That time is over. Been over for many decades.

To put it kindly, feminists need to get off their high horses and screw off, the rest of us aren't so stupid as to think they're actually useful anymore when the goals have LONG been met.

a reply to: TheElectricPriest

"Today (Feminism)"

Yesterday common sense.