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The verdict is in objective physical reality doesn't exist

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posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 03:12 PM
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originally posted by: PuppyloveAbsurdity. Having one's skull crushed into a pancake will kill a person 100 percent of the time. Physical reality exists. The only question is how. No amount of philosophy will make a bullet magically not wound you.


And what if your skull got crushed and you found yourself still alive looking down at your crushed physical body and wondering WTF was going on? At that point you could not be blamed for thinking your "physical body" may have been an illusion all along. Although it has become a hackneyed phrase, you really have to think outside the box here, and the box in your case is thinking that physical reality as you perceive it is all there is. Even you know that is not true. You can't hear dog whistles and you cannot see the infrared. "Reality" consists of frequencies you cannot perceive at all.

These ideas have been around a long time, even before quantum mechanics, but the study of that alone even in a cursory manner, should give you pause. How can a particle be there and not be there at the same time? How do you explain quantum entanglement, which seems to ignore things such as the speed of light? How can the cat be both alive and dead at the same time and you cannot tell which until you observe it? How can light be both a particle and a wave? And how an time be considered a dimension on a par with height, length, and breadth? Lots of this stuff is mathematically solid. You cannot ignore it any more than you can ignore the inescapable fact that two plus two equals four.

Those kinds of issues lead to what we are talking about here. You are acting like a Flatlander, someone who exists in two dimensions only and concludes that only two dimensions exist. We're trying to get beyond that here and see past what our physical limitations are.




posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 03:28 PM
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a reply to: schuyler

That all we percieve is not all there is does not make what we see no longer real. Just because I can't see in the infrared does not negate all the colors I can see.

Even if I died and your scenario happened I would no more assume my body was not real than I would my car was not real the second I stepped out of it to walk into the store.

My circumstances would have changed and I would have a new aspect of reality I could not previously percieve to learn to contend with and adapt to, but it would neither negate nor bring into question my previous existence. Instead it would add to them, and be more data from which to draw from.

You also assume and we know what assumption makes us, that just because this scenario happens it means I'm somehow outside physical reality and not instead in some spectrum of it we've yet to figure out how to measure or interact with. People always mention silly things like not seeing the wind or in your case infrared, but in both cases they can still be seen with equipment or percieved using other senses. They are still a part of physical reality.

So are there things we still don't understand or have yet to figure out? Sure there are plenty, but none of that suddenly negates physical reality, nor does it bring it's existence into question in any way that's actually helpful or useful.



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 03:28 PM
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Damn phone
edit on 2/11/2019 by Puppylove because: Damn phone



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 03:28 PM
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Damn phone
edit on 2/11/2019 by Puppylove because: Damn phone



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 03:28 PM
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Damn phone
edit on 2/11/2019 by Puppylove because: Damn phone



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 03:28 PM
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Damn phone
edit on 2/11/2019 by Puppylove because: Damn phone



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 03:33 PM
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originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: schuyler

So are there things we still don't understand or have yet to figure out? Sure there are plenty, but none of that suddenly negates physical reality, nor does it bring it's existence into question in any way that's actually helpful or useful.


THAT is precisely what we want to study. Perhaps it IS useful. You're still living in a 2D world. Go look up the double slit experiment and tell me you understand physical reality.



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 04:06 PM
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a reply to: schuyler

I agree is good to research, but it's absurd to say physical reality does not exist. I don't need to understand physical reality for it to clearly exist as every moment of everyday and every action and reaction forces me to accept it as real.

Objective reality is that which exists independant of ourselves and our own perceptions. This is true. That we will never likely fully understand it is also true.

It is, however, absurd to take some measurements that are confusing and weird and then decide that physical reality does not exist, then walking out of the lab with your physical feet and driving home in your physical car.

The absurdity is saying physical reality doesn't exist. It clearly does, so can we try understanding it and not make absurd statements? We can both move forward with science and researching the unknown without having to pretend nothing is real.



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 04:16 PM
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originally posted by: schuyler
I have heard this basic theme for fifty years now. "Reality is all in your head." "Time doesn't exist." And people go around talking as if they understand what those things mean. "There is no time." Really? "Science has shown mathematically that everything happens at the same time." Is that right? OK, then. How does this help me? What can I do to manipulate this information to my advantage?


The best I extracted from things such as the copenhagen interpretation was that the stringent concrete belief system I was compelled to believe in school was wrong. Therefore granting me a blank slate to shape a new worldview with childhood naivety and mature rational discernment - being careful not to overdose on either. I only say this as testimony, and not to brag, but I now sit in my mid 20's retired on my own accord and volition due to an accrual of residual income (persistent income without the need for further work). I owe all my success to the unyielding limitless philosophy of Christ, which is hijacked by many of these 'secret occult u need this4money' snake oil salesmen.

If you ask for anything and truly believe, it will happen. no exceptions.

I now sit bored of the wealth I quickly accrued and realize the futility of continually pursuing such matters. I almost feel dirty for ever having asked for material wealth haha. The next step for someone who realizes this is to sell everything they have and go to join the ether with Christ and co. I feel bad for people who are fighting to stay alive when they could simply stop compromising their morality and integrity for lowly temptations and easily become worldly wealthy... or they could also simply let it go altogether and leave the subjective unreality in which we currently reside described in the OP.

"Nothing will be impossible for you."



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 04:28 PM
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originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: schuyler

The absurdity is saying physical reality doesn't exist. It clearly does, so can we try understanding it and not make absurd statements? We can both move forward with science and researching the unknown without having to pretend nothing is real.


I'm truly sorry, but you are going to have to educate yourself more on these issues before we can have a meaningful conversation about them. It's not absurd. You are not engaging on the issues. It's useless to talk to you about this if you are so rigid in your 2D space.



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 05:32 PM
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a reply to: Puppylove
At this point, I could possibly be convinced that your phone exists.




Maybe.



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 05:36 PM
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Something related to read:
Biocentrism

A follow up, Beyond Biocentrism, is available too.



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 07:16 PM
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a reply to: neoholographic

To respond to the assertion that physical reality does not actually exist, I would need to understand how you are defining "physical reality".

Let's take the holographic universe idea:


originally posted by: neoholographic

3. Holographic Principle

Most Physicists are beginning to accept some form of the Holographic Universe. This has serious implications when it comes to the nature of reality. A holographic universe would show that 3D volume doesn't exist. Whar we call volume is a projection of information on a 2D surface area. Here's a video with Susskind and others.

I agree that the universe might be holographic. I mean, it's within the realm of possibility. And I'm not talking about some alien or god-like entity running a type of holographic projector that simulates our universe. I mean that the natural 3D universe in which we exist and with which we interact is actually based on 2D information that lies "somewhere" on the outside of our universe...

...and if that is the case, then that is simply the way the natural universe works.

So if that's just the way nature works, then that holographically projected object would be what we call a real physical object using the only definition of "real" that the universe gives us.

That is to say:
If the reality of nature is that the universe is a holographic projection, then that holographically projected object is a real object within the rules of nature in our universe.

It's irrelevant if what we call a real object is a holographic projection, because the things we define as 'real' in our universe would always be holographic. And since that's simply how the universe works, that to call those holographic objects as "a physical reality" is perfectly valid.

If I wanted to be a bit cheeky, I could say that "if everything is holographic, then nothing is holographic". That's a bit of a joke, but it has some truth in it.



edit on 2/11/2019 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)

edit on 2/11/2019 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 08:41 PM
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originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: neoholographic

The only thing you have proven is that you have no idea what scientists are trying to say is going on. You have made countless threads showing your inability to understand the things you’re talking about.


Lol



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 08:59 PM
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a reply to: neoholographic

We make our own reality sometimes.

Take time for example-it's a human construct-time is equated by velocity and distance, if your watch stopped during the night, does that mean the sun won't rise in the morning?

I'm agnostic about the foundations of reality. I believe in a fifth force, by all rights the other four forces should be in a cosmic bar brawl, yet some kind of...glue is binding them together.

As for the Holographic universe, i'm sad to say it has been disproved.

sciencemag.org

arxiv.org
edit on 11-2-2019 by Thecakeisalie because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 09:14 PM
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originally posted by: Thecakeisalie
a reply to: neoholographic

We make our own reality sometimes.

Take time for example-it's a human construct-time is equated by velocity and distance, if your watch stopped during the night, does that mean the sun won't rise in the morning?


Time may or may not be a human construct, but whether it is or not, humans had the concept of the passage of time long before they had clocks.



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 09:19 PM
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originally posted by: ColeYounger
This stuff always makes me think of Einstein's statement that "Reality may be an illusion, but it's a persistent illusion."





Time is NOT real: Physicists show EVERYTHING happens at the same time


That's just too heavy to wrap one's mind around.


I agree!

Think about it, if the distinctions between past, present and future are an illusion how can we say anything that we think has an objective physical existence be real? Everything we do is based on these distinctions being real. When we're born, when we die and everything in between.

Many Scientist know there's no evidence for an objective physical reality but the strain of materialism is a strong current in science. It's like a Religion. If you don't accept materialist dogma, you can be ostracized.



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 09:35 PM
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I...

Object!!

Hehehe! Really. A math equation and money in your hand are as different as QM and my skinned knees!

And that was Schrödinger’s point: a macro scale object can only be a quantum object so much.

I get the argument! And it is fun to think about and ponder. And I can sometimes see the point of view but reality sets in. And the taxman, cops, Jesus freaks, smelly people on the bus, and being stuck here in this gravity well!

Having burnt myself enough times with fire the objective reality subjects me to her whims. The language may need some updates! And if wave functions and matrix math work equally well in describing and predicting the “world as we experience it” than that language is incomplete.

Let the wiggle room happen! Life is more interesting with unknowns!

Keep making us question and think!!




posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 09:39 PM
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Reality is the interaction of forces, that is all. We are evolved to deconstruct what is necessary for survival, filtering out all aspects of irrelevant phenomena.

The cat experiment was done to show Quantom mechanics should apply to the macro levels of the Universe as well as microscopic.

Time is a fundamental part of the equation of our universe. One can parse the meaning of “real” all they want. It’s irrelevant, like wondering if Anger exists.



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 09:45 PM
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a reply to: Thecakeisalie

What? It's been disproved LOL The article you posted supports the Holographic universe and has zero evidence in it that it's been disproved. The holographic model of the universe is stronger than ever. In fact, Hawking talked about this in his final paper.

Professor Stephen Hawking's final theory: The universe is a hologram


The new theory embraces the strange concept that the universe is like a vast and complex hologram. In other words, 3D reality is an illusion, and that the apparently "solid" world around us - and the dimension of time - is projected from information stored on a flat 2D surface. Hawking and Hertog's variation of the holography theory overcomes the problem of combining eternal inflation with General Relativity.

Applied to inflation, the newly published theory suggests that time and "the beginning" of the universe arose holographically from an unknowable state outside the Big Bang.


www.telegraph.co.uk...

The holographic universe is being connected to everything from entanglement to dark energy. Here's some recent papers.

Pixelated Dark Energy


(Submitted on 29 Jan 2019)

We study the phenomenology of a recent string construction with a quantum mechanically stable dark energy. A mild supersymmetry protects the vacuum energy but also allows O(10−100) TeV scale superpartner masses. The construction is holographic in the sense that the 4D spacetime is generated from "pixels" originating from five-branes wrapped over metastable five-cycles of the compactification. The cosmological constant scales as Λ∼1/N in the pixel number. An instability in the construction leads to cosmic expansion. This also causes more five-branes to wind up in the geometry, leading to a slowly decreasing cosmological constant which we interpret as an epoch of inflation followed by (pre-)heating when a rare event occurs in which the number of pixels increases by an order one fraction. The sudden appearance of radiation triggers an exponential increase in the number of pixels. Dark energy has a time varying equation of state with wa=−3Ωm,0(1+w0)/2, which is compatible with current bounds, and could be constrained further by future data releases. The pixelated nature of the Universe also implies a large-l cutoff on the angular power spectrum of cosmological observables with lmax∼O(N). We also use this pixel description to study the thermodynamics of de Sitter space, finding rough agreement with effective field theory considerations.


arxiv.org...

An interacting holographic dark energy model within an induced gravity brane


(Submitted on 13 Dec 2018 (v1), last revised 19 Dec 2018 (this version, v2))

In this paper, we present a model for the late-time evolution of the universe where a dark energy-dark matter interaction is invoked. Dark energy is modeled through an holographic Ricci dark energy component. The model is embedded within an induced gravity brane-world model. For suitable choices of the interaction coupling, the big rip and little rip induced by the holographic Ricci dark energy, in a relativistic model and in an induced gravity brane-world model, are removed. In this scenario, the holographic dark energy will have a phantom-like behaviour even though the brane is asymptotically de Sitter.


arxiv.org...

Holographic entanglement entropy from probe M-theory branes


(Submitted on 29 Nov 2018)

We compute the holographic entanglement entropy contribution from planar two-dimensional defects in six-dimensional N=(2,0) superconformal field theory, holographically dual to probe M2- and M5-branes in AdS7×S4. In particular, we test the viability of the universal contribution of the defect to entanglement entropy as a candidate C-function. We find that this coefficient is not monotonic under defect renormalization group flows triggered by the vacuum expectation value of a marginal operator. Another candidate C-function, the on-shell action inside the entanglement wedge, monotonically decreases under the flows we study.


arxiv.org...

I can go on and on. The holographic model of the universe is far from disproved. In fact, it's hard to find a description of the universe today that doesn't incorporate some form of holography.

If you really want to learn about this, I suggest you start with this great lecture from Susskind called The World as a Hologram.


edit on 11-2-2019 by neoholographic because: (no reason given)




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