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Reconciling Creationism with Evolution: both are correct...

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posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 07:16 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

humans were practicing science before organised religon , we just didnt have a name for it

Shamans carry out scientific experiments, they chant the chants and beat the drums, light the candles and blow the smoke
then dance their dance, the same things every time in the right order
they then see and learn and then advise on the result of that experiment with the soul !
and it benefits the community ! they learn the weather, they learn the animal routes etc

we were scientists before we even thought about god, scientific enquiry seems to be a part of consciousness .

Science doesn't require faith in anything , all it requires is the determination to learn , and find out why
, for no other reason that curiosity !




posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 07:28 AM
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a reply to: LABTECH767

Thanks for you detailed response. Did you read my article though? It seems like you haven't..
I do agree with you on many accounts. Some scientific "evidence" is revered more than any old religious dogma. So much so, that when new theories challenge old ones, they refuse to die for a long time. For instance, the wright brothers, although they managed one of the first controlled, machine powered flight, were met with a wall of resistance from the scientific community. Peer reviewed papers were published to prove that it was impossible. And yet...
Science is a work in progress. And those who are not open minded to new ideas are simply the typical arrogant ones that believe that "now we know" and that our "models" and theories can no longer change. Of course, history is the proof of the contrary: EVERYTHING is change. And this will also happen in the foreseeable future. But nothing happens by chance. The "creation" of the "big bang" pure "cause and effect" timeline is important. It allows for more experimentation, and also, much more material and physical comfort then if we were all busy praying in the fields and living in basic huts instead of reflecting on how the world works and how we can harness that knowledge to improve our lives.

If you read the article, all that will become clear.



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 07:32 AM
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a reply to: sapien82

Well, you could even extrapolate and say that the brain has evolved to be scientific, as it is a perfect machine for correlations. If our brain wasn't good at recognizing patterns of events and making sense of them, we wouldn't live very long. For instance, a computer, with no programming, observing an object falling for the 1000th time, will still be unable to predict how the 1001th object will behave. But do a test on a child. Hide an object behind your back, make it come out in the same hand several times in a row, and see which hand it chooses to pick. Our brain is a scientific machine which is designed to give meaning to an otherwise very chaotic world. However, I think that we are now far beyond that point.



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 08:10 AM
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a reply to: Marma

yes , this seems to be the case, I'm sure many scientists also agree that consciousness is geared to the scientific method !



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 08:37 AM
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a reply to: sapien82

So

Science didn’t flourish till after Luther’s reformation launched education for all.
That the church built universities and places of education.
Made women equaler to men than before

You offered nothing valid in your argument as did your sharmans that benefited society to any great degree



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 12:12 PM
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originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: Phage

Evolution has driving forces. It can't just randomly happen. Even a mutation has a reason for it's beginning.


The genetic mutations ARE random, though. They happen because copy errors happen during every replication. That part does happen randomly, the rest is long term adaptation.



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 01:20 PM
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Something has to be created and everything changes over time.

But what created what is able to create????

That's is the question???



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 02:51 PM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

made women more equal to men aye !

Sure we create a monotheistic organised religion with a male deity as the supreme being , and that totally made woman more equal !
Replacing already established pantheons of male and female gods, where women were already equal to or greater than men!

I am not talking about the birth of the scientific method or when we had our periods of enlightenment
Im talking about the underlying human characterisitics which already gear us towards a scientific method.
Repeating a process using the same methods and acheiving the same results , shamans are just really early scientists , well thats my opinion of course.
They used herbs and mushrooms to achieve an outcome , the whole system is recorded in song and story and handed down through generations as a vocal record.
The same as any other school , also there were already great places of learning before the church came and built their places of worship , all of the sacred celtic teaching places in the UK were repurposed by the church when christianity converted the majority of the celtic people of the UK , these were places of learning for bards , who went on their lifelong learning path to become a Druid !

So shamans didnt offer anything to science is what you are saying ?
Despite the fact that the understanding of various plants and animals has given so much to science
from the treatment of depression with psilocybins to the search for autoimmune cures for crohns disease
to the treatment of addictions with ibogaine. There are many things we have learned from shamans in the jungle

The scientific revolution was not because of the church , sure it helped greatly due to their control and wealth.
but I really find it laughable when we say the church helped science flourish when it spent so much time and effort suppresing it as magic and witchcraft.
Sorry I couldnt help but laugh at the reformation , do you know how many people died in Europe because of the reformation ?
The thirty years war was one of the most bloodiest periods in human history , 8 million people or near that died because of the war and all the other death from plage and famine. I wonder how many of that number could have been a scientific genius ?

another example of why the church was a direct enemy of knowledge , well the dark ages are referred to due to the corruption of the catholic church by the protestant christians, and also because there was a clear lack of documentation and writing compared to antiquity .
What did we have in antiquity , we had polytheistic cultures !

Just saying , monotheism wasnt really that great for science !

edit on 11-2-2019 by sapien82 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 02:54 PM
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a reply to: Bloodworth

I dont think we will ever invent artificial intelligence that is sentient and able to create its own creations!
because I believe consciousness is limited to biological life !

If humans are going to make AI it would need to be a synthesis of machine and biology



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 03:00 PM
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It's a safe bet that progressive creationists are advancing this discussion to help keep their faith relevant. It's probably driven by belief self-preservation.

I cannot imagine evolutionists thinking about this possibility and thinking, "Well, it could be possible...let's write an article that supports this."

Science advances and religion retreats. That's been my observation over the years.



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 03:23 PM
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originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: Phage

Evolution has driving forces. It can't just randomly happen. Even a mutation has a reason for it's beginning.

But mutations do happen randomly.

What isn't random (i.e., it has a "reason") is whether or not that mutation is beneficial enough to continue to be carried on down through future generations. That "reason" is environmental factors; if the mutation benefits the organism in his environment, then the organism has more chances to pass the mutation to its offspring -- offspring who also might benefit from the mutation, which gives THEM more chances to pass the mutation to their own offspring. Rinse and repeat.

If the mutation isn't beneficial -- including if it is a neutral mutation -- then the organism has fewer chances to pass it alomg to offspring, meaning that non-beneficial mutation might eventually dissapear from that species' genome.



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 04:02 PM
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a reply to: Bloodworth

I'll give you this allegory for you to understand.
Imagine that "nothing" always ends up creating a form of "primal vibration" or energy which we call "quantum foam" for lack of a better word, simply due to the contradiction between infinity and nothingness. If nothing is finite, then it isn't nothing, since it has a defined boundary. Therefore it has to be infinite. But the moment you "define" nothingness it no longer is nothing. In any case, try to picture that from this quantum foam, photons emerge first as they are half "particle" half "wave" (they share properties of both). Now, since nothingness, or the void, is infinite, where and when does the first photon appear in the void? Well, there is absolutely no reason why one photon rather than another would appear at a certain point in space. Which means that you could represent reality as being a Universe where "slices" of all possible and impossible realities pop in and out of existence infinitely fast. Just like if you would slice up all frames of all the movies in the world and made an LCD display them at random infinitely fast. Now, God can be thought of a consciousness which can "think" or be aware of all that it IS instantly (infinitely fast). It has to do with the basic principles of relativity. How "fast" does time flow? Well, it's all relative! In the center of a black hole (which is where "God" resides, in my mind), time flows infinitely fast, and the further away from the center, time "slows down" but only in relative terms! Time is a relative experience. So God can be simply thought of as a consciousness which can "think" or be aware of all that it IS infinitely fast. Imagine if you could experience your life infinitely fast: you would experience being born at the same time as dying, having sex at the same time as having a diarrhea, etc. God is just the "ultimate" version of consciousness, and we are made in God's image because we also get to experience who we are, or rather "create" out of infinity who we are. Our brains basically act as mass filters that help us "navigate" through infinity which is always present at all times everywhere. From that LCD flickering infinitely fast, your brain isolates what you think is "you" (from past experience, your beliefs etc), and then creates a "consensual reality" which is the result of 7,5 billion brains "voting" on what they want the giant LCD screen of "Earth" to show. We are basically living on the event horizon of a black hole, and God is a being which experienced all that it is infinitely fast, thereby emerging instantly out of the void, simply because statistically, it could not not have happened, and we are somewhere further away from the curve in terms of "relative time", making our way back to "being God" (because everything leads to God, or an infinite consciousness, in the end), on our own time scale.

Hope that helps...



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 04:04 PM
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a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

From my understanding is that evolution at the base of biological variations is still a rather unknown in the science behind evolution, just like cosmic evolution is still in it's rather infancy phase and is pretty much still up for debate between astrophysicists. The most accepted form of evolution, in my way of explaining it, is that mutations happen and if their garbage they are worked out from either the organism dying off, not passing on those genetics and DNA, or they are beneficial, which either goes on, or is neutral.

But there's a problem, variation isn't random, why do all organisms that have flight capability seem to converge to that adaptation? Certain microbes and bacteria have shown they can literally boost the rate of mutation to sort of adapt quicker.

I think the random part is a loose term, thrown around to explain something that we don't understand. We barely know how to stop cancer, yet we know for sure that the most accepted theory of mutation is that they are just random?

If we go on the more grand scale of it all, was the big bang just a random event, and maybe that's some things in our universe evolutionary wise is random as well?



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 05:24 PM
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I get it. God created all of existance in one instance. Knowing all, God knew that eventually earth would be created, and the laws of nature would use evolution would lead to human life as we know it now.

Is that right OP? Everything was already created at once, and time was allowed for the show to play out. Or something along those lines?



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 05:26 PM
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a reply to: TheTruthRocks

Religion retreats, but spirituality still lives on in the infinite unknown universe. Religion seems to adapt itself for the most part.



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 05:53 PM
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a reply to: Marma

That has nothiong to do with the theory of evolution. The theory says lots about how life changed, nothing about how it began. That is because they are different subjects. Further more the various proteogenic hypotheses, are many and varied. This includes abiogensis.



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 05:54 PM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

No it does not. You used a non scientific reference there. thus you loose. As per usual. The modern theory of evolution, says nothing of how it began.

So try again padiwan.



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 06:58 PM
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originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: Raggedyman

No it does not. You used a non scientific reference there. thus you loose. As per usual. The modern theory of evolution, says nothing of how it began.

So try again padiwan.


The link showed a current scientific text book stating clearly
Abiogenesis is evolution

I am smart you are dumb, I win you lose and I am the king of the castle, Padawan noindie schooled again by your master honorable Jedi king Raggedyman


Read the link, written by other Palawan atheists like yourself.
All hail the great Jedi king raggedy, slayer of Padawan noindie

Or do you deny the written word Padawan noindie, put your hand over your eyes and chant , “ I can’t see it” “ it’s not true” chanting and hiding doesn’t make it not true
Now endothelial the lesson, run along and play with the other children 👶



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 07:04 PM
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a reply to: sapien82

Sapien
Most female pagan deities were sex workers

Jesus taught equality

The rest of your comments are churlish and undeserving an adult reply, not thought through at all
And not supported with anything but your opinion
No thanks



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 07:29 PM
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Phage for the win!

Ha ha, great read.

As an Agnostic I don't really have a horse in the religious aspect....if I was religious I wouldn't see how The Theory of Evolution would rule out a belief in God and even Creationism.

I see a lot of smoke in mirrors in this thread.

I could comment on the blind faith shown by many Deists and the entrenched and uncompromising views of those who disagree with that perspective....but why bother, nothing will change.

Two sides of the same coin.




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