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Hey, Democrats, I've lived in a socialist country with income 'equality' and it was miserable

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posted on Feb, 10 2019 @ 02:03 AM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: mobiusmale

Right back at you! You obviously have no idea what living under the excesses of laissez faire capitalism is like. You have no idea what you are talking about by your own argument.


I just did a search of his post and saw no mention of laissez faire capitalism. So why did you bring it up? Sounds like a strawman response.


Corruption of people in power has nothing to do with the type of government. Both left wing and right wing governments have corruption.

"Power corrupts..."


This sounds like an argument for smaller, decentralized government power and term limits... the opposite of socialist regimes.




posted on Feb, 10 2019 @ 02:05 AM
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learn 2 program you useless eaters.



posted on Feb, 10 2019 @ 02:24 AM
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originally posted by: darkbake
You are making a few mistakes here. First of all, socialism is not the same as communism. Period. Even Cortez is not interested in government control of corporations, but for more worker input. No one wants the government to own corporations, which is what happens in communism. Cortez wants more worker input. This happens in countries like Germany with no issues like the dire ones you are predicting.


What kind of meaningful 'worker input' is being asked for?


And, let's not forget, if you are an idiot and can't discern fact from fiction, it will make it so that you are not able to make effective policy decisions or decisions in general because you will be basing them on false information.


But the Workers can't be idiots and make ineffective decisions based on false information? Somehow they are 100% informed and competent?


Right now, workers do need more say. They are not able to afford rent and insurance and food even working full-time.


So the workers should be able to say they get more money for the same amount of work? What if the company can't meet those amounts? Will the workers decide who gets fired, takes a pay cut, or loses hours? Will they decide who has to work overtime to meet the demands to make the money to generate the revenue for the wages they demand? What happens when the product or service they provide is not in demand by the market anymore?

Should typewriter builders have a say in how their business is run? Rotary phone builders?

The company I work for has a contract with a local Union chapter. The Union chapter does *nothing* to train those people. The company literally hires these people off the street with no Union guidance. The company trains them in all facets of production, safety, etc. The Company provides all their uniforms, safety equipment, manufacturing equipment, raw materials, etc. Yet somehow once the Company has made all their training and working material available, you believe these people with no background in business or manufacturing should now have a say in how the Company runs? How is that a successful business plan?


While the rich have been getting richer, the normal folks in our country have actually lost buying power since the 1980s. The stock market doesn't predict the quality of life for most of America anymore, because it has less and less to do with how much they get paid and their expenses. It only has to do with the rich and those able to invest. And trickle-down economics has factually been proven not to work.


Learn to economics.



posted on Feb, 10 2019 @ 06:21 AM
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Its never right to work and then hand some of your hard earned money over to someone who decides not to work.

It's a recipe for disaster and will eventually piss off the working class.

People need to look around these stupid democratic ideas and look at the big picture.

Democrats are forcing Republicans to argue over this completely outlandish ideas.

Its good for the enemy to have the u.s. argue over stupid ideas while they work to attack.

Democrats are playing the most deadly game right now...

Keep the Republicans busy with ludicrous ideas that's a win for the enemy.

If the dumbocrats actually pass any of theirs ideas its double win for the enemy



edit on 10-2-2019 by Bloodworth because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2019 @ 07:09 AM
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America will never have income equality, no different from any other country. That is not the goal. The goal is the raise the standard of living of all Americans at the expense of a relative few that do not need the wealthy anyhow. It does not make them happier or better people. Period. And anyone who thinks it does is a fool. Why? Because it allows those people to wield far to much power and influence over everyone else. And that is wrong, bad wrong.



posted on Feb, 10 2019 @ 12:20 PM
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a reply to: Krakatoa

Where are they going to move to when all of America taxes the rich properly?

I'm not saying that we should tax the rich to death, but this notion that the ultra rich deserve special treatments and exemptions because we're so dependent on them is frustrating..

The rich get richer and poor get poor and we cant even the playing field cause they threaten to leave.. I call BS on their bluff.



posted on Feb, 10 2019 @ 12:38 PM
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originally posted by: blueman12
a reply to: Krakatoa

Where are they going to move to when all of America taxes the rich properly?

I'm not saying that we should tax the rich to death, but this notion that the ultra rich deserve special treatments and exemptions because we're so dependent on them is frustrating..

The rich get richer and poor get poor and we cant even the playing field cause they threaten to leave.. I call BS on their bluff.



They'd move out of america...

The rich dont have special loopholes. You can take advantage if them too.

America really doesnt have much true poverty anymore. Even the poorest of us live better than even the rich did 30 years ago



posted on Feb, 10 2019 @ 01:00 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard! Have you been among the poor? I’ve taken care of them for years, and I guarantee you they’re not living like Fred Astaire or John Rockefeller. Think before you speak, and spend some time among the poor before you vote with idiocy.



posted on Feb, 10 2019 @ 01:08 PM
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originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: Edumakated

That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard! Have you been among the poor? I’ve taken care of them for years, and I guarantee you they’re not living like Fred Astaire or John Rockefeller. Think before you speak, and spend some time among the poor before you vote with idiocy.


The poor in America are not poor by global standards. Being poor in America means you have have refrigeration, running water, flat screen TV, iphone, functioning apartment with air condition / heat. Free education. School breakfast and lunch. Even most poor have working cars if not two. Clothing.

Yes, the "poor" live better than the rich did a generation ago when you look at actual standard of living.

Being poor these days means you can't afford $200 tennis shoes. Or maybe you don't have any savings, but you most certainly aren't living in a tin roof shack in some favela.

Travel outside the US to third world or even second world countries to see what real poverty looks like.

Even those working minimum wage jobs in America are nearly in the top 1% of income earners GLOBALLY.



posted on Feb, 10 2019 @ 01:12 PM
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No surprise there



posted on Feb, 10 2019 @ 01:21 PM
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The thing socialists don't get is we all want equality and for everyone to thrive. We just feel it can be achieved by empowering individuals rather than empowering the establishment.

That's fine, if you're fine with having the same entities in charge of the VA in charge of your healthcare. Just don't force me to be a part of that cluster.



posted on Feb, 10 2019 @ 01:26 PM
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originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: Edumakated

That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard! Have you been among the poor? I’ve taken care of them for years, and I guarantee you they’re not living like Fred Astaire or John Rockefeller. Think before you speak, and spend some time among the poor before you vote with idiocy.


Yes, the poor today live better than Fred Astaire or John Rockefeller. Neither of them would have had a cell phone. Even the poorest hoodrat has a cell phone today. Neither of them probably had an air conditioned house. Even people in housing projects typically have air conditioning in America. Neither of them used a microwave. Every person in America has used a microwave. Neither of them probably had a 50 inch flat screen color TV. Nearly every house in America has a HD TV. I can go on and on...

Even in the poorest hoods in America, people have things and standards of living that only the rich in most countries have. Poverty in India is not the same as poverty in America. Outside of maybe some extreme mountain communities, no one in America is bathing in a river or living in sewage filth.

When I was in grad school, I tutored at an elementary school at one of the worst housing projects in the country (Cabrini Green). One of my class makes was from Africa. He couldn't believe we considered these kids poor. They had a nice modern school building, air conditioning, desks, books, etc.

He went to school in a one room shack with a dirt floor. He brought pictures to show the kids how he grew up.

My point is that it is all relative.



posted on Feb, 10 2019 @ 02:00 PM
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There are hundreds of thousands of people homeless, right now. Out in the cold. Cell phones don’t put food in the belly or keep you warm. It’s estimated that 1.2 million children are homeless each year. I doubt they’d be happy with a cell phone. The homeless, mostly vets that I’ve treated didn’t usually have cell phones, and again I expect if they did it was a cold comfort.



posted on Feb, 10 2019 @ 02:24 PM
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originally posted by: pexx421
There are hundreds of thousands of people homeless, right now. Out in the cold. Cell phones don’t put food in the belly or keep you warm. It’s estimated that 1.2 million children are homeless each year. I doubt they’d be happy with a cell phone. The homeless, mostly vets that I’ve treated didn’t usually have cell phones, and again I expect if they did it was a cold comfort.


Isn't this problem you're putting on table more of mental health and drug abuse issue in the main with chronically homeless? How is socialism and "green new deal" gonna fix that? Throw OPM at it! like we dont already. Maybe we just go by Stalin/Mao example and just eliminate the problem eh.

I also think statistics would show most homeless due pure economics are more temporary in nature.



posted on Feb, 10 2019 @ 02:40 PM
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originally posted by: Phoenix

originally posted by: pexx421
There are hundreds of thousands of people homeless, right now. Out in the cold. Cell phones don’t put food in the belly or keep you warm. It’s estimated that 1.2 million children are homeless each year. I doubt they’d be happy with a cell phone. The homeless, mostly vets that I’ve treated didn’t usually have cell phones, and again I expect if they did it was a cold comfort.


Isn't this problem you're putting on table more of mental health and drug abuse issue in the main with chronically homeless? How is socialism and "green new deal" gonna fix that? Throw OPM at it! like we dont already. Maybe we just go by Stalin/Mao example and just eliminate the problem eh.

I also think statistics would show most homeless due pure economics are more temporary in nature.


Exactly.

The chronic homeless would be homeless regardless... the vast majority of homeless are on the streets because of mental issues and drug use. The simply cannot function in civilized society. No amount of redistribution of wealth or any other leftist schemes will fix this problem.

When someone is homeless due to economic circumstances is temporary. I've known people kicked out of their house for whatever reason who had to sleep in a car or motel or shelter. It is a temporary setback but hardly qualifies as "homeless" like someone living in a cardboard box talking to themselves.

Most communities provide services, especially for women and children who may be temporarily homeless.



posted on Feb, 10 2019 @ 03:06 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

I think this socialist, green new deal will result in less help for chronically poor or homeless as society sinks under weight of massive taxation which leads to incentives to do less lest it be taxed nonetheless trying to purchase fuel to get to work, heat or cool a home and afford scraps of food on table. Nothing much left after that but I'm sure those serving on committees and rule making lordships will set a fine example of how socialism really works.

I think these sorts who think this is good idea force themselves to flat out ignore history on purpose because of the power aspect and natural proclivity to get in everybody's business due some birth defect.



posted on Feb, 10 2019 @ 06:05 PM
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Ah, I see. I’m sorry. Apparently the hundreds of thousands of homeless people aren’t considered in your “poor” category, thus validating your argument. Apparently they were all mentally ill addicts first, and THEN became homeless. Good to know. And apparently those who can’t function in civilized society aren’t considered poor either.



posted on Feb, 10 2019 @ 08:38 PM
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As usual with such matters of ideology.

The problem is humans as always.

Doesn't matter if it is socialism, communism, capitalism or religion etc.

It can be the best idea in the world, have the potential to advance us as a species but it will always be ruined by someone wanting power, wanting more than their fellow man.

OP doesn't convince me socialism is bad. It just reinforces for me that many humans suck.
edit on 10-2-2019 by AtomicKangaroo because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2019 @ 09:05 PM
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a reply to: mobiusmale

It is incredible that after over 100 years of the same false promises that socialists make, and the over 110 million murders that socialists/communists have committed, and the millions more imprisoned just for being the opposition to socialism, we still have millions of people who keep on falling for the same old lies and call them "new."

There is nothing new in what AOC, B. Sanders, and other socialists are promising. NOTHING they claim they can give is new. These are the same old lies but with "a new twist." That "new twist" is only a change in the name of the authoritarian rule that socialism is.

The problem that "those who are falling for the same old lies" don't understand is, if those of you who "believe these lies" fall again for it and embrace socialism, you better be ready for family members and friends to be your enemy.


The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism. Karl Marx

Read more at: www.brainyquote.com...

Trust me, there will be many among you who will fall for the "new lies of socialism" yet again who will realize, although late, what you truly embraced. Many people who were cheering for "socialism of the 21st century" in Venezuela a few years ago are now some of the most ardent opposition to "socialism of the 21st century." Many of those people are now either dead or rotting in prison simply because they oppose socialism.

Just like it happened in Venezuela, Cuba, China, the Soviet Union, North Korea, Burma, Vietnam, etc, etc, etc, socialism, or whatever you want to call it, will put families against each other. Even if your father, mother, sister, brother, husband, wife, daughter, son, or other family members agree today with you on "this new form of socialism," eventually there will be those in your family and group of friends who will realize what they have done and will become the fiercer opponents of socialism.

As Marx himself stated, there can be no opposition to socialism. Guess what happens to the opposition when socialism takes over?

Right now in the U.S. there are over 2 million Cubans who escaped socialism, just Cubans alone. Like us, there are millions more who escaped socialism under different names. You really think you are going to get us to embrace the same old lies again?

Since under socialism there can be no opposition, you better be ready to either kill millions of us, or we will fight back.

Now imagine that "your daughter/son/husband/wife/sister/brother, etc" turn against socialism as well. You better be ready to doing the same thing to them.

No compromise whatsoever can ever be made with socialism, or whatever name you give it. None whatsoever.



edit on 10-2-2019 by ElectricUniverse because: add and correct comment.



posted on Feb, 10 2019 @ 09:29 PM
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originally posted by: AtomicKangaroo
As usual with such matters of ideology.

The problem is humans as always.

Doesn't matter if it is socialism, communism, capitalism or religion etc.

It can be the best idea in the world, have the potential to advance us as a species but it will always be ruined by someone wanting power, wanting more than their fellow man.

OP doesn't convince me socialism is bad. It just reinforces for me that many humans suck.


You are wrong. The problem is socialism/communism. Under these systems there can be no "individualism" since "the collective is more important." As such, you either become a mindless socialist/communist drone, or you are "the opposition."

Socialism/communism, or whatever name you want to give them, are not and will never be "the best idea in the world..."



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