Hey, Democrats, I've lived in a socialist country with income 'equality' and it was miserable

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

ETA not to mention endless spying on our citizens, cameras everywhere, databases of our information ( often sold to corporations ), anti-Terrorism legislation that curtail free speech or whistleblowing, forfeiture/seizure laws that swell Govt coffers.......

George Orwells 1984 and Animal Farm should be required reading.

a reply to: LightSpeedDriver

Well they fail to see how Company bail-outs are Nationalized Welfare of the Rich ..."how dare we suggest our fellow humans have some sort of safety net for when they fall on hard times"

the criticisms of capitalism are accurate. We currently live in the situation you decry for socialism. Massive corruption, a small few making (or failing to make those decisions) for the rest. Massive wealth inequality. Increasing standards of living for the few at the top, decreasing for everyone else. Artificial scarcity to keep prices high. Price fixing to keep prices high. Union and labor deconstruction to keep wages low. They have gone way beyond working to make a profit, now its cutting out the working class so the owners go from good profit to extreme profit.

The current neoliberal corporate model has an inherent flaw. With our capitalist system, corporations are required to constantly make MORE profit in order to succeed. This has an obvious serious problem, which clearly defines and describes the situation we are in now. When the market is saturated, or populations contract they run out of ability to increase profit through more sales. The only viable option left then, which is now, is by financializing and privatizing public assets, and more, by pushing down the labor cost or increasing prices. The only way to decrease the labor cost is by reducing wages, liquidating pensions, and reducing benefits. Literally they are just taking away the amount of profit that goes to wage compensation in order to expand their profit margins. This doesn't stop, it continues....with increasing profits for them, and decreasing profits for workers. Over time the wages of workers will continue to approach zero, meanwhile the profits continue to move to the small group at the top. Its just how it works....and its all about greed for increasing profits at everyone elses expense. A successful economic model would be one where a business creates ENOUGH profit for workers to get paid and the business continues to run. That's the opposite of what our current model supports. Theres no way out of this in our current, capitalist corporate model.

Besides, much of what y’all claim as moving innovation forwards, research and development, that’s done often, for most product innovations, by schools and the military on taxpayer dollars. We actually paid to create most of the amazing stuff that we then gift to corporations to sell back to us as profit. Now, I don’t know why you seem to call that capitalism, but I’d put it no higher than some form of legalized theft and profiteering.

originally posted by: mobiusmale

...as Democrats justify grandiose proposals by decrying income inequality, many of us who immigrated to the United States from socialist countries see great irony. After all, unending income equality is what drove us to leave our native lands in the first place.

My family left post-Mao Communist China in the mid-1980s precisely because there was so much equality to go around. As a child, I lived in Guangzhou, the third largest city in China. Everyone in my city was equal in having no running hot water, no modern toilet facilities, no refrigerator, no washer, no dryer, and no color television.

There was abundant equality in the dearth of economic opportunities as well. The state told us where to live, where to work, what to buy, and for how much. Worse yet, my fellow citizens who lived in the countryside were even more impoverished.

After decades of totalitarian rule and grand socialist experiments, China had a meager per capita GDP of less than $200 in 1980. By comparison, America’s was $12,500 that year.

One of the key problems with Socialism/Communism is that it creates huge bottlenecks...

If Democrats were promoting Socialism/Communism you might have a topic.

Absent that, this thread seems to celebrate someone who has allowed Fox news to damage their brain.

a reply to: Extorris

Uh. They ARE. What kind of cardboard box you living in? You think Amelia Oscar-Meyer Cotex is promoting capitalism? Bernie? The entire far left? And don't even play the "Democratic socialism" isn't the same as socialism crap.

originally posted by: Extorris

originally posted by: mobiusmale

...as Democrats justify grandiose proposals by decrying income inequality, many of us who immigrated to the United States from socialist countries see great irony. After all, unending income equality is what drove us to leave our native lands in the first place.

My family left post-Mao Communist China in the mid-1980s precisely because there was so much equality to go around. As a child, I lived in Guangzhou, the third largest city in China. Everyone in my city was equal in having no running hot water, no modern toilet facilities, no refrigerator, no washer, no dryer, and no color television.

There was abundant equality in the dearth of economic opportunities as well. The state told us where to live, where to work, what to buy, and for how much. Worse yet, my fellow citizens who lived in the countryside were even more impoverished.

After decades of totalitarian rule and grand socialist experiments, China had a meager per capita GDP of less than $200 in 1980. By comparison, America’s was $12,500 that year.

One of the key problems with Socialism/Communism is that it creates huge bottlenecks...

If Democrats were promoting Socialism/Communism you might have a topic.

Absent that, this thread seems to celebrate someone who has allowed Fox news to damage their brain.

If you can't process or digest the actual words coming out of the mouths of prominent Democrats since about 2015...then I do not know how to help you.

Bernie Sanders very nearly won the Democrat nomination in 2016...if not for Crooked Hillary and the "Superdelegates". He is an avowed Socialist.

The Dem Party's latest darling, AOC, recently said, "Capitalism will not always exist in the world'.

AOC and 60 other Dem lawmakers have cosponsored a resolution calling for complete Government control of energy production and transmission, transportation, housing, health care, income "equality", wages for everybody - even for those who are not willing to work.

If you can't see just how far left the Dems are now leaning, then you should maybe turn your head a little bit to bring the picture into better focus.

a reply to: Wookiep

Think you might have the cardboard box thing a tad misguided. The Democratic party are capitalist pigs who live by the mighty dollar, just like their Republican counterparts. We are so far gone with capitalism in the USA that is has corrupted everything (which is capitalism when it's winning, not losing), including the minds of the people who have been coerced to fight for the corportists at every turn. The real globalists, the morally bankrupt corporatists, are you masters, apparently. But you don't have to keep bowing down to them, or fighting for them. They've already won a thousand times over and don't need your help.

The problem has more to do with corruption than it has to do with the economic system in place.
The billionaire class actually loathe capitalism. They do everything in their power to kill off competition which is a hallmark of capitalism.

As their wealth and power grows, in order to keep the population in check, the police state will grow and dissenters will be shot on site. This is already happening now with people being executed.

Throw the billionaire class out of Washington DC and we may have a chance.

The billionaire class will destroy this country for their own greed and power, just like the wealthy class robbed Venezuela before escaping the country.

If people are so worried about some wanting free crap and such then take away their ammo of thought. Stop corporate welfare stop subsidizing banks and farmers and lower taxes. Then when someone brings up the issue you can just say handouts are not how we operate in the usa. Until then when people continue to see the feds redistributing wealth then they will continue to push for their fair share of the handouts and have a valid point in their begging and forcing.

originally posted by: norhoc
a reply to: CosmicAwakening


So if you agree that power corrupts then why would you want to hand over even more power to those in power? It makes no sense. You are essentially saying that power corrupts no matter what system of governance is in place yet you want to hand over control of healthcare, business, and essentially everything to the corrupt?



Sorry Cosmic, that was in reply to dfnj2015

The Healthcare and Business Industry already have to much influence over government.
The solution is to boot them out and quit interfering with our government.

originally posted by: jacobe001
The problem has more to do with corruption than it has to do with the economic system in place.
The billionaire class actually loathe capitalism. They do everything in their power to kill off competition which is a hallmark of capitalism.

As their wealth and power grows, in order to keep the population in check, the police state will grow and dissenters will be shot on site. This is already happening now with people being executed.

Throw the billionaire class out of Washington DC and we may have a chance.

The billionaire class will destroy this country for their own greed and power, just like the wealthy class robbed Venezuela before escaping the country.

This is what the dir hard capitalists ignore.

Take ISPs for example, people will bitch and moan that 'government regulation' makes it impossible for a new ISP to emerge while completely ignoring the fact that money from established ISPs are the reasons the damned regulations exist in the first place.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: LightSpeedDriver

Well they fail to see how Company bail-outs are Nationalized Welfare of the Rich ..."how dare we suggest our fellow humans have some sort of safety net for when they fall on hard times"

Like farm handouts, they say that is ok because it represents a national security issue.
They thought the same thing in the Communist Soviet Union as well.
The same billionaires get in bed with a Communist Country to get some of that Cheap Commie Labor where workers have no rights and are banned from organizing.
Then come back to the states moaning about the existence of Unions under capitalism and how expensive it is.

Whose the Commie now?

originally posted by: pexx421
Besides, much of what y’all claim as moving innovation forwards, research and development, that’s done often, for most product innovations, by schools and the military on taxpayer dollars. We actually paid to create most of the amazing stuff that we then gift to corporations to sell back to us as profit. Now, I don’t know why you seem to call that capitalism, but I’d put it no higher than some form of legalized theft and profiteering.

A lot of the drug research is also done by Universities and companies come in to profit from it.
They spend the bulk of their money, not on research, but on advertising and purchasing politicians.

originally posted by: Extorris


Absent that, this thread seems to celebrate someone who has allowed Fox news to damage their brain.

The Socialism and Communism scare is redirection from the billionaire owner class.
A cursory glance at Washington DC and the deep pockets involved, all the money comes from Corporations and Banks.

originally posted by: UncleTomahawk
If people are so worried about some wanting free crap and such then take away their ammo of thought. Stop corporate welfare stop subsidizing banks and farmers and lower taxes. Then when someone brings up the issue you can just say handouts are not how we operate in the usa. Until then when people continue to see the feds redistributing wealth then they will continue to push for their fair share of the handouts and have a valid point in their begging and forcing.

EXACTLY!
Take away the welfare for the rich, take away their political power over this country.
Even with the Republicans in power, the party of small government, they have not cut spending, because a lot of their cronies are on the take.

They would actually have to cut the welfare to the rich donor class.

originally posted by: AScrubWhoDied


Take ISPs for example, people will bitch and moan that 'government regulation' makes it impossible for a new ISP to emerge while completely ignoring the fact that money from established ISPs are the reasons the damned regulations exist in the first place.

Exactly.
With Net Neutrality you had the usual it is all the governments fault.
Net Neutrality was created because of Corporate Lobbyists.
You had Corporations for and Corporations against it on both sides.


Eventually, all Corporations joined on the same team and away went Net Neutrality.

I would add, you all act like socialism is one thing. You point at Venezuela and say "you want that here!!!", as if we would have the Venezuelan model (or all the us sanctions, economic war, assassinations and coup attempts that go with it). Or "Look at china you want that here?" as if china and Venezuela are the same. When people have clearly stated "look at Norway, we want some of that here".

There are many different forms of socialism, just as there are many forms of capitalism. Look at Columbia! you want that here?? Look at what the lassez faire neoliberal model did to gorbechevs Russia! You want that here? Because Russias collapse was directly following the neoliberal, freidman economic model of total privatization and oligarchic preeminence. Look at Greece, you want that here? Because Greece is the trial run of the privatization and liquidation of public assets that trump wants to do here, and the austerity that the bankers are drooling over doing to you.

a reply to: jacobe001

"Small government" is merely a tactic to make it even easier for the corporatists to have complete control. Whether those on the right realize it or not, they are doing the corporatist work for them (the Dems as well, honestly, thought not always through 'small government'). Make governmental power limited and manageable so the corporations can run the show (except that the Repubs can't ever seem to keep gov't small due to the greedy, and bloody, hands of the MIC).

With a smaller government the corporatists can write the laws, allow for just enough regulation & handouts to the public to keep them from revolting, and ultimately to keep the capitalist ball in play, squash the competition, and ensure that their message keeps the public fighting for them. Sadly, it is capitalism working perfectly. Capitalism has no morals. Capitalism is winner take all. Just profit and power (in order to ensure that they can keep raising profits).

The same can be said for pushing power down to the State Governments. State governments are much easier to corporate steamroll and control. Additionally, by pushing things down to state governments the corporate control works both locally (states) and globally (USA at large).

We are long since screwed. Socialism is so far gone here in the USA it's almost laughable. A piddly welfare state to keep the capitalist slaves at bay and the corportists on top, that's as far socialist as we'll get. Until it all implodes that is.

originally posted by: okrian
a reply to: jacobe001



We are long since screwed. Socialism is so far gone here in the USA it's almost laughable. A piddly welfare state to keep the capitalist slaves at bay and the corportists on top, that's as far socialist as we'll get. Until it all implodes that is.

Our country was more socialist in the past than it is today.
We are morphing into a slave class to serve the wealthy elite at the top.

I looked into the history of welfare, and it was way more generous 40 years ago than it is today.
You had food stamps, cash allowances, rent assistance and this was not just for single moms either.
Both parties went on a crusade to end it as we know it back in the 90s.

Some may point to the 'amount' on food stamps, especially after the 2008 crash brought on by the bankers, but they fail to to mention the qualifications to get it compared to the past. The quals to get many assistance programs is a lot tougher.
If your a single male, forget it, that was not so in the past.

It is not that we are turning into a socialist nation, but rather just talking about is a threat the elite establishment that want a slave class to serve them.

Some also like to point out the growing costs in government funded medicare as an example of socialism and welfare.
I gladly redirect them to the amount of money pouring into the politicians pockets from the Pharma and Insurance Industry.

Cut the medicare program then lol.
The Lobbyists in the Pharma and Insurance Industry will burn DC to the ground.