Knights Templar Multimedia

Originally posted by Echtelion
So you,re telling us that there is NO HIERACHY or no ranks between the 3rd and the 33th degree, right?

The degrees 1-3 are under the jurisdiction of the local Lodge, which is under the jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge.

The 4th - 33rd Degrees are under the jurisdiction of the local Scottish Rite which is under the jurisdiction of the Supreme Council of the Scottish Rite.

If the Grand Master (the man in "control" if you will...of the 1-3 degrees) were to declare the Scottish Rite (4th - 33rd Degrees) to be irregular and unmasonic (which HAS happened when a couple of them got pissed at each other) then the members of the Scottish Rite can either DROP their membership in the Scottish Rite or be expelled as Masons. You see, the THIRD degree is the "highest" Degree of Masonry. The others are additional information...not "higher" degrees.

If that's so, they why are there degrees?

See above

Should have they just used names, or something else taht does not leads to a ranking structure, to define each position in the order?

Each of the degrees DOES have a name. The Scottish Rite chose to use numbers as well (I wish they hadn't, but I wasn't born until the 1960's and the Scottish Rite was founded (invented really) in 1801. For example the 4th Degree is "Secret Master" the 14th Degree is "Perfect Elu" the 18th Degree is "Knight Rose Croix" (pronounced "kwa") the 30th Degree is "Knight Kadosh" the 32nd Degree is "Master of the Royal Secret" and the 33rd Degree is "Inspector General Honorary" The other degrees have titles too. If you'd like a list I can provide them, but a Google Search will turn them up.

Also the degrees of the Northern Masonic Jurisdiction differ in title.


This is because there IS NO "centralized" Masonry.....contrary to what Akilles and others think in their paranoid little minds....

Originally posted by mickmeaney
no offence sebatwerk but i don't think you're a Mason.

it's easy to claim anything when you're sat behind a computer.

No offense mickmeaney but I don't think YOU'RE a "Higher Revolutionary Mutation Activist"

So there.

What does that prove?

Sebatwerk IS a Mason. Why wouldn't you believe him? ...or could you just not think of anything else to say since your posts have contributed NOTHING?

Karnes, no offense, but I think they made you Grand Master of your lodge to ensure loyalty.

Hate to have to go into the motivations why a group of men who DO NOT control Freemasonry would try to get others to be controlled by it....

Originally posted by akilles
Karnes, no offense, but I think they made you Grand Master of your lodge to ensure loyalty.

Hate to have to go into the motivations why a group of men who DO NOT control Freemasonry would try to get others to be controlled by it....

Actually, Akilles, Senrak was voted as Worshipful Master by his peers, as ALL lodge Masters are. Senrak decided he wanted to be master, and nominated himself. His lodge peers thought he'd make a good master, so they voted him in for a year. Dassit.

Originally posted by senrak

Originally posted by mickmeaney
no offence sebatwerk but i don't think you're a Mason.

it's easy to claim anything when you're sat behind a computer.

No offense mickmeaney but I don't think YOU'RE a "Higher Revolutionary Mutation Activist"

So there.

What does that prove?

Sebatwerk IS a Mason. Why wouldn't you believe him? ...or could you just not think of anything else to say since your posts have contributed NOTHING?

Just the media streams - and thanks for the points you're giving me by posting on my thread

I don't think he is a Mason because he acts like a child sometimes and is often insultive to people. That is the fist comment I have posted which may offend someone. I don't think it will be the last, I just got sick of seeing people like him posting.. it's like more every week. And yes, I know I haven't helped matters. It's great to know he has a personal body guard here on ATS.. dude, let the man fight his own battles. We are all grown ups here, right?

[edit on 31-3-2005 by mickmeaney]

Originally posted by akilles
Karnes, no offense, but I think they made you Grand Master of your lodge to ensure loyalty.

Hate to have to go into the motivations why a group of men who DO NOT control Freemasonry would try to get others to be controlled by it....

The Grand Master is the presiding officer of the ENTIRE jurisdiction (called the Grand Lodge). You don't even know the process...how can you talk about your great knowledge of Masonry?????

The Master of the Lodge (which is what I was) is the presiding officer of the local Lodge.

And yes, I AM offended. They made me Master because I served a year as Junior Steward, a year as Senior Steward, a year as Junior Deacon, a year as Senior Deacon a year as Junior Warden a year as Senior Warden and then a year as Worshipful Master. Did you count those years???????? Do you think they "made" me Master? Masonry is WORK akilles, WORK and dedication. A Mason is loyal because he loves Masonry....not because anything is given to him.

Here's a link to the Grand Lodge of Missouri. It has links to the subordinate Lodges of Missouri. Maybe you can get an inkling of how the system works. I doubt it, though. You've made up your mind that it's evil and there's no changing it (and yet you have the nerve to say that WE are brain-washed....)

www.momason.org...

Originally posted by mickmeaney
Just the media streams

- and thanks for the points you're giving me by posting on my thread

I don't think he is a Mason because he acts like a child sometimes and is often insultive to people. That is the fist comment I have posted which may offend someone. I don't think it will be the last, I just got sick of seeing people like him posting.. it's like more every week. And yes, I know I haven't helped matters. It's great to know he has a personal body guard here on ATS.. dude, let the man fight his own battles. We are all grown ups here, right?

[edit on 31-3-2005 by mickmeaney]

Sadly mick, no . . . not everyone here IS grown up. I suspect that a number of the trolls who've come and gone are teen-agers. Dribbler comes to mind....he was probably 15...hardly grown up.

Sebatwerk and I both tend to get a bit passionate about Freemasonry. It's pretty simple. When someone lies about Freemasonry (which is what's being done here) They're lying about US because WE'RE Freemasons. When they say Freemasons are brain-washed or that the "lower ranking" [sigh] Freemasons don't know what's REALLY going on. They're saying that WE aren't smart enough to see what's happening and that they (non-Masons) who've never stepped foot into a Masonic meeting ARE.

Frankly that ticks me off!

Originally posted by mickmeaney
I don't think he is a Mason because he acts like a child sometimes and is often insultive to people. That is the fist comment I have posted which may offend someone. I don't think it will be the last, I just got sick of seeing people like him posting.. it's like more every week. And yes, I know I haven't helped matters. It's great to know he has a personal body guard here on ATS.. dude, let the man fight his own battles. We are all grown ups here, right?

You know, I realize my posts are a bit immature at times, I've admitted that many times as I am only 25. And Senrak is not my bodyguard, he's my brother. you doubted I was a mason, so ANOTHER MASON proved you wrong. You obviously don't believe me, so he stepped in to help.

And my posts are NOTHING compared to most of the trolls on this site. At least I offer examples and evidence of my claims, something none of these guys do. I don't show them any mercy, and I never will.


[edit on 31-3-2005 by sebatwerk]

Its all about confidence games with you guys, the SS I'll call you.

You see, SS, its not that non-Masons think they 'know better' or know 'more' about Freemasonry, in many cases they are just more skeptical and cautious individuals!

A moral man would never associate himself with people if he didn't know for sure EVERYONE that he was associating himself WITH.

A honest man would never give his word without knowing what he is giving it for.

And so, by its very requirements, we can see that Freemasonry attracts a specific kind of member. So how can you say that we are claiming to be smarter than Freemasons, or know more than they do?

Is someone claiming to KNOW MORE if they say if there was ANY conspiracy in Freemasonry, it is IMPOSSIBLE for every Freemason to be involved? No. And yet, here I say it, and I WILL be accused of baseless accusations (again).

And so everytime the only argument goes: Are you saying the people inside Freemasonry are stupid?

I mean, they must be. Its the gist of every nonMason's argument, isn't it?

Freemasonry uses the most advanced deception techniques known to man, how is being a trusting person that is taken advantage of make you stupid?

Its the old story, if it was bad, my uncle/grandfather/pappy wouldn't have been involved. Well, let me put it to you this way. If Freemasonry was perfect, no one would leave ever. So when someone leaves (or GROUPS AND GROUPS EN MASSE as after the Masonic killing of Capt. Morgan) Freemasonry, then they are saying they there is something wrong with Freemasonry, right?

Its screwy logic, and its the same thing you guys use (esp. Jobie Girl....) to say that NO ONE would be in Freemasonry if ANYTHING bad ever happened.

Its clear that when things benefit the individual, you would not leave Freemasonry, nor would you complain about it.

In fact, you would cover up the fact that you benefitted at all...

Originally posted by akilles
Its all about confidence games with you guys, the SS I'll call you.

You see, SS, its not that non-Masons think they 'know better' or know 'more' about Freemasonry, in many cases they are just more skeptical and cautious individuals!

A moral man would never associate himself with people if he didn't know for sure EVERYONE that he was associating himself WITH.

A honest man would never give his word without knowing what he is giving it for.

And so, by its very requirements, we can see that Freemasonry attracts a specific kind of member. So how can you say that we are claiming to be smarter than Freemasons, or know more than they do?

Is someone claiming to KNOW MORE if they say if there was ANY conspiracy in Freemasonry, it is IMPOSSIBLE for every Freemason to be involved? No. And yet, here I say it, and I WILL be accused of baseless accusations (again).

And so everytime the only argument goes: Are you saying the people inside Freemasonry are stupid?

I mean, they must be. Its the gist of every nonMason's argument, isn't it?

Freemasonry uses the most advanced deception techniques known to man, how is being a trusting person that is taken advantage of make you stupid?

Its the old story, if it was bad, my uncle/grandfather/pappy wouldn't have been involved. Well, let me put it to you this way. If Freemasonry was perfect, no one would leave ever. So when someone leaves (or GROUPS AND GROUPS EN MASSE as after the Masonic killing of Capt. Morgan) Freemasonry, then they are saying they there is something wrong with Freemasonry, right?

Its screwy logic, and its the same thing you guys use (esp. Jobie Girl....) to say that NO ONE would be in Freemasonry if ANYTHING bad ever happened.

Its clear that when things benefit the individual, you would not leave Freemasonry, nor would you complain about it.

In fact, you would cover up the fact that you benefitted at all...

More ridiculous rambling and accusation and LIES and you NEVER NEVER NEVER answer when called to task.

You rely on the word of David Icke (the guy who believes in alien reptiles who morph into human form) and wonder why WE don't buy that garbage?

You're obviously delusional and lonely. You should get a pet. I have a wonderful labrador retriever. You should get one too!

You're NOT a Mason, yet you proclaim this GREAT KNOWLEDGE of Masonry. RIDICULOUS. You have NO CREDIBILITY. You're a joke. Your posts make NO SENSE.

I ask you again. (I think this is the 3rd time) WHY DO YOU HATE MASONRY? It's a bunch of fraternity guys. (Highly organized) but fraternity guys nonetheless. NO WORLD CONSPIRACY here. The worlds in a hellofa shape...who'd WANT it? Certainly not Freemasons.

Get a new game. Attack the Knights of Columbus or something.. . Chief Counsellor can defend them and we'll help him. We're tired of playing this silly game.

You, too fit this category




[edit on 31-3-2005 by senrak]

Originally posted by akilles
You see, SS, its not that non-Masons think they 'know better' or know 'more' about Freemasonry, in many cases they are just more skeptical and cautious individuals!

When you claim to know the REAL structure of masonry, and what's really going on in meetings, then YES, you ARE claiming to know more than us.

A moral man would never associate himself with people if he didn't know for sure EVERYONE that he was associating himself WITH.

A honest man would never give his word without knowing what he is giving it for.

OK dude, whatever you say. You're one to speak of honesty...

And so, by its very requirements, we can see that Freemasonry attracts a specific kind of member. So how can you say that we are claiming to be smarter than Freemasons, or know more than they do?

It absolutely does attract a specific kind of member. Moral, upright citizens.

Freemasonry uses the most advanced deception techniques known to man, how is being a trusting person that is taken advantage of make you stupid?

Is that right? What deception techniques would those be?

So when someone leaves (or GROUPS AND GROUPS EN MASSE as after the Masonic killing of Capt. Morgan) Freemasonry, then they are saying they there is something wrong with Freemasonry, right?

And yet, most people that have left simply say "it's not for me".

Its screwy logic, and its the same thing you guys use (esp. Jobie Girl....) to say that NO ONE would be in Freemasonry if ANYTHING bad ever happened.

nobody has ever said that.

Its clear that when things benefit the individual, you would not leave Freemasonry, nor would you complain about it.

Hw many people have left masonry compared to how many people have been members their whole lives? Not even 1% of members have left the organization. So why are we discussing this?

Well, I just learned the Knights Templar rode two Guys per Horse.

And there are still people that defend them? Man, that is gay.

Obviously the people who accused them of sodomy knew what they were into!

"everytime the only argument goes: Are you saying the people inside Freemasonry are stupid?

They must be, otherwise they would know all the stuff the non-Masons warn about. Its the gist of that every nonMason's argument, is calling you stupid for not seeing for yourself?

Freemasonry uses the most advanced deception techniques known to man, how is being a trusting person that is taken advantage of make you stupid?"

Now let me just emphasize a point here:
A moral man would never associate himself with people if he didn't know for sure EVERYONE that he was associating himself with.

A honest man would never give his word without knowing what he is giving it for.

So of course, you have a vested interest in believing that you can benefit from Freemasonry (and you can!) but not that it benefits from you (and it does!).

Damn the Knights Templars, you don't have to be a 'conservative preacher' to feel that way.

Originally posted by akilles
A honest man would never give his word without knowing what he is giving it for.

Well from an outsiders, as well as a mod's, note, I have had no problem believing what a Mason's word was. If he gave it, it was done. And I've had loads of dealings behind the scenes to get this forum back on track. No more fruit cake.

Akilles, yes I spelled it right this time, my apologies for the past, I miss read it, take what they have to say, test it, don't automatically dismiss it. You may learn something.

Originally posted by akilles
"everytime the only argunow exment goes: Are you saying the people inside Freemasonry are stupid?

They must be, otherwise they would know all the stuff the non-Masons warn about. Its the gist of that every nonMason's argument, is calling you stupid for not seeing for yourself?

I know exactly everything I need to know about masonry. You have NEVER told me anything I didnt already know, Akilles. Only things that I KNOW weren't true. I tried telling you so you could learn something, for YOUR benefit, but whatever. Your loss.

Freemasonry uses the most advanced deception techniques known to man, how is being a trusting person that is taken advantage of make you stupid?"

Such as? Please provide some examples and some proof that masonry uses these techniques. If you ignore this, never make that claim again.

Now let me just emphasize a point here:
A moral man would never associate himself with people if he didn't know for sure EVERYONE that he was associating himself with.

It's a FRATERNITY, Akilles... a HUGE fraternity. I met everyone in my lodge, and they were ALL great people. I knew EXACTLY who I was associating myself with. Every mason does. But it's a big fraternity, there's bound to be problems here and there. Stuff happens. Is that as big of a problem as you're making it out to be? No, it's not.

A honest man would never give his word without knowing what he is giving it for.

What are you talking about?!? A mason knows exactly why he's giving his word. Again, the part of the ritual that you've always failed to mention is the part where the candidate is told exactly why he's giving an oath, for what, and all the things that the oath will not interfere with. You CONVENIENTLY LEFT THAT PART OUT, cuz you have an agenda.



[edit on 4-4-2005 by sebatwerk]

sebatwerk, we are making some progress here, please grow with us.

I know you think elsewise but I think that others can see what is being said here. That means that you can back off. Offence is not always the best avenue.

Originally posted by intrepid
sebatwerk, we are making some progress here, please grow with us.

I know you think elsewise but I think that others can see what is being said here. That means that you can back off. Offence is not always the best avenue.

Sigh, I know Intrepid. I would like to grow with you, it just seems that the attacks and slander never stop. With Akilles specifically, it's cheap-shot after cheap-shot after sheap-shot. If anyone could get him to cut that out, it'd be too soon. This mindless drivel does distract from the real quality posts and sinere conversation ni this forum, which is what i'd like to see more of. I will do my best to help.

Fair disclosure: I am not a Mason.

However, I have a long history of association with Masons (my father, both my grandfathers, etc). I have had a philosophical disagreement with certain customs of the Grand Lodge jurisdiction in which I was raised and would not join whilst there. Since moving, I just haven't joined. I do, however, have a good opinion of the Masonic Fraternity.

Having said that...

Historically, it is very interesting to look at what happened when the Templars were disbanded. In England and Scotland (where, incidently, the Inquisition wrote back to France complaining they couldn't find someone well-trained in the art of torture), families who had a close tie to the forming Masonic system seemed to have many ties to the Templars.

It also would seem that many of the traditional lessons tied in Scottish Rite work, in particular, would be appropriate for surviving Templars. Which isn't to say that the ideals of a tolerant and open society dedicated to truth and learning wouldn't be appropriate for a number of other groups.

It is also quite possible that in the wake of the Templar dissolution, a spasm of anti-clericalism and freedom seeking brought on by corrpution in the Church and Monarchy would have resulted in an identification with the Templars on the part of Speculative Masonry that would not require Templar participation.

Lastly, if you really want to know what the Masonic conspiracy is all about, you should give Mackey's Masonic Encyclopedia a good read. It's all in there. Even most of the "secret" stuff (which, honestly, has all been published). The conspiracy is to have a group of men who believe in the Universal Brotherhood of Man and seek to live an ethical and meaningful life.

Someone should investigate that.

Again, I am not a Mason. Nor am I paid by the 33rd Degree Conspiracy, Inc. for my public relations efforts.

(sheesh!)



[edit on 13-4-2005 by driley]