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Knights Templar Multimedia

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posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 02:01 PM
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Just out of interest I thought I'd share this multimedia stream with you.

'Knights Templar
Founders of Freemasonry in Britain dedicated to the free exchange of ideas. First Grand Lodge meeting held and the Goose and Gridiron Ale House in London on June 24, 1717. Almost from the beginning there were hidden agendas. Now known as Freemasons they were instrumental in the formation of secret organizations and also fraternal clubs such as Rotary, Kiwanis, and Odd Fellows.'




posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by mickmeaney
Just out of interest I thought I'd share this multimedia stream with you.

'Knights Templar
Founders of Freemasonry in Britain dedicated to the free exchange of ideas. First Grand Lodge meeting held and the Goose and Gridiron Ale House in London on June 24, 1717. Almost from the beginning there were hidden agendas. Now known as Freemasons they were instrumental in the formation of secret organizations and also fraternal clubs such as Rotary, Kiwanis, and Odd Fellows.'



The Knights templars are not the "founders of Freemasonry". There have been historical attempts at linking the two organizations, but nothing conclusive. And how would whoever wrote this know about Freemasonry's "hidden agendas"?



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 03:37 PM
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From what I've read (maybe disinformation, maybe not) a lot of people throughout history suggest that the Knights of Templar had some influence on the Masons.. be it founding them or joining them..

I don't really have an opinion on this.. I just point the way to people that do.

One thing I am sure of is the higher you climb in the Masons, the more information you are given. I'm very interested in the theory that the public and low ranking Masons are told of 33 degrees, when there may be more.



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by mickmeaney
One thing I am sure of is the higher you climb in the Masons, the more information you are given. I'm very interested in the theory that the public and low ranking Masons are told of 33 degrees, when there may be more.



Sigh... dude that's just not true! You are not the first guy to post on here thinking that, but I hope you are one to listen to what others tell you:

The MYTH that there's "high-ranking" masons is a bunch of crap. After a mason becomes a Master Mason (3rd degree), he has the same priviledges as a 33rd degree mason. The sublime 3rd degree of Master Mason is as high as it goes, the reast are just additional degrees that elaborate on the lessons taught during the first 3 regular "Blue Lodge" degrees. They can be considered as "add-on" degrees. ANY master mason can join the Scottish Rite and become a 32nd degree mason, hence nobody "out-ranks" anyone else. The 33rd degree is reserved as an honorary degree to recognize masons who have contributed to the organization with outstanding service. The only masons that have any authority on rank are the lodge officers that are VOTED upon to hold that office for one year. Any 3rd degree mason can become any officer, including Grand Master. A 3rd degree mason could be the Master of a lodge of 32nd degree masons. And that's all there is to it.

This is a FRATERNITY, and all brothers are EQUAL. Some just hold certain positions for a year in order to do a particular job. There's several 32nd degree masons on this forum that will tell you the same thing.



[edit on 28-2-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 04:00 PM
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This www.conspiracyarchive.com... is something I found very interesting, if it's true or not I don't know.



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 04:59 PM
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So we couldn't get a list of current 33 degree Freemasons because?

I mean, they're the most prominent, I want to see the example they set, never mind the conspiracy talk, lets look at these men for what they have done.

And so, who bestows the honorary title any way? I thought no one was in charge?



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 05:20 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
So we couldn't get a list of current 33 degree Freemasons because?

I mean, they're the most prominent, I want to see the example they set, never mind the conspiracy talk, lets look at these men for what they have done.

And so, who bestows the honorary title any way? I thought no one was in charge?



You already know the answer so stop being a troll.



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 05:21 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
So we couldn't get a list of current 33 degree Freemasons because?


I don't think they publish membership lists to the public, but I could be wrong.


I mean, they're the most prominent, I want to see the example they set, never mind the conspiracy talk, lets look at these men for what they have done.


Here ya go buddy: www.srmason-sj.org...


And so, who bestows the honorary title any way? I thought no one was in charge?


I think (and I'm going from memory here so don't quote me on this) that each Valley (I'm talking Scottish Rite here) has a certain number of nominations they can make per year, according to the number of members in good standing. For meritorious service, a 32° Mason can be decorated and recognized as a Knight Commander of the Court of Honor (Senrak holds this title). All the KCCH's for the year are sent up to the Supreme Council 33° (these are elected officials as well), where it is decided who from the pool of KCCH's will have the 33° conferred upon them. As I said I may not have it quite right, but that is pretty close, to the best of my recollection.

[edit on 2/28/05 by The Axeman]



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 06:47 PM
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The MYTH that there's "high-ranking" masons is a bunch of crap. After a mason becomes a Master Mason (3rd degree), he has the same priviledges as a 33rd degree mason. The sublime 3rd degree of Master Mason is as high as it goes, the reast are just additional degrees that elaborate on the lessons taught during the first 3 regular "Blue Lodge" degrees. They can be considered as "add-on" degrees. ANY master mason can join the Scottish Rite and become a 32nd degree mason, hence nobody "out-ranks" anyone else.


So you,re telling us that there is NO HIERACHY or no ranks between the 3rd and the 33th degree, right?

If that's so, they why are there degrees? Should have they just used names, or something else taht does not leads to a ranking structure, to define each position in the order?



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 07:04 PM
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Also, would it be an unfair implication that a 33rd degree has a much greater knowledge of Freemasonry than a 3rd degree Brother, even if they have been involved the same amount of time?

So they may be equal, but the 3rd degree is of NO IMPORTANCE in carrying out rituals or anything, so I think Masons need to admit you could NOT be bestowed the 33rd degree if you didn't know more about Freemasonry than the next guy.

Now just acknowledge (funny word, that) that there are 33 levels of Knowledge, and that not any one could become a 33rd degree, they must be 'CHOSEN' (just like ice, frozen at 32 fahrenheit, and melting at 33 degrees).

I don't disagree with Freemasonry hiding things out in the open, but why deny it, why sign in code?



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 07:07 PM
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why cant i see akilles posts?.



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 07:23 PM
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Originally posted by Echtelion



The MYTH that there's "high-ranking" masons is a bunch of crap. After a mason becomes a Master Mason (3rd degree), he has the same priviledges as a 33rd degree mason. The sublime 3rd degree of Master Mason is as high as it goes, the reast are just additional degrees that elaborate on the lessons taught during the first 3 regular "Blue Lodge" degrees. They can be considered as "add-on" degrees. ANY master mason can join the Scottish Rite and become a 32nd degree mason, hence nobody "out-ranks" anyone else.


So you,re telling us that there is NO HIERACHY or no ranks between the 3rd and the 33th degree, right?

If that's so, they why are there degrees? Should have they just used names, or something else taht does not leads to a ranking structure, to define each position in the order?



I dunno man, why should it be a big deal? The Masons' traditions are for Masons. Just because you don't understand why doesn't make it their responsibility to have done it differently. I know how that sounds, but hear me out.

Answer me this: Why should they have done it any differently? I mean seriously, why?

OK the thing is with the degrees, in the Scottish Rite there are 29 Degrees, 4°-32°, with the 33° being an honorary Degree, like a recognition of meritorious service to the Craft or the Community and so on.

But you get them all at once (save the 33°), in a one weekend class. So no Scottish Rite Mason "outranks" any other. Only the elected officials have any kind of "rank" and that's pretty much for administrative purposes. Does this make sense?

[edit on 2/28/05 by The Axeman]



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 07:25 PM
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Originally posted by MysticOfRadiance
why cant i see akilles posts?.


Heheh I wonder...



I bet they got him with the banhammer... finally.


[edit on 2/28/05 by The Axeman]



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 10:51 PM
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Originally posted by Echtelion
So you,re telling us that there is NO HIERACHY or no ranks between the 3rd and the 33th degree, right?

If that's so, they why are there degrees? Should have they just used names, or something else taht does not leads to a ranking structure, to define each position in the order?


Dude, the DEGREES only refer to which rituals you have passed through, in a sense it's a symbol of what level of masonic teaching you have attained. In school, a sixth grader does not "outrank" a fifth grader, they are both students in the same institution. There is no purpose for ranks in masonry, it is a fraternity and everyone is equal. Like I said before, the only people that NEED any authority are the lodge's officers.



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 03:05 PM
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no offence sebatwerk but i don't think you're a Mason.

it's easy to claim anything when you're sat behind a computer.



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by mickmeaney
no offence sebatwerk but i don't think you're a Mason.

it's easy to claim anything when you're sat behind a computer.


You're serious!??!? What makes you think that? I must be a pretty knowledgeable impostor if I'm able to convince other masons that I am one, dontcha think?!?!

Please call the Grand Lodge of California at (415) 776-7000 and verify this before you post something you have no idea about.



[edit on 30-3-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 07:54 PM
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Originally posted by MysticOfRadiance
why cant i see akilles posts?.


Consider yourself lucky.



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
So we couldn't get a list of current 33 degree Freemasons because?


Certainly you can. You'd have to write to EVERY Supreme Council in the World though....because they ONLY keep records of their own members. There is only one Supreme Council in each country where the Scottish Rite is located and two Supreme Councils in the United States (long story) but their 33rd Degree membership is NO secret. I *believe* the Supreme Council, Southern Jurisdiction, USA has a list of the Supreme Councils across the world that have web-sites so you could log onto that and write to them. If not, simply write a letter to:

ART de HOYOS, 33rd Degree
GRAND ARCHIVIST & Grand Historian
The Supreme Council, A.& A.S.R.
1733 Sixteenth Street, NW
Washington, D.C. 20009 3199


Ask him for a mailing list of all the regular Supreme Councils in the world so you can write to them. Tell him I gave you his name (I'm a close friend of his for almost 15 years...John Karnes...remember "senrak" is Karnes spelled backwards...you think that has some significant Masonic paranoid reference???) He'll be glad to help you out.

When you write to all these Supreme Councils they'll send you a copy of their transactions with the names of all their 33rd Degree members. I hope that will help. (Sorry about the postage it'll cost you, but it will be worth it)



I mean, they're the most prominent,


Why do you "mean" that? They're somewhat prominent in the Scottish Rite, but amongst general Masons, the fact that they hold the 33rd degree means next to nothing. I know you won't believe that, but it's true.



I want to see the example they set, never mind the conspiracy talk, lets look at these men for what they have done.


Why do you care? What difference does it make to you? Actually it's none of your business that the Supreme Council has honored them with the 33rd degree. You're not a Mason. It would be no different than me being concerned with the members of the Knights of Pythias who've received the Degree of the Golden Spur (a HIGH honor among Knights of Pythias) ...actually maybe that's not a good example since I AM a Knight of Pythias, but I *think* you get my point. (Actually you may not since you take stock in David Icke who thinks that there are alien reptiles amongst us who "morph" into human form.) I truly cannot think of anything sillier. Mrs Necros' laxative-filled, exploding toilet and combination mailbox pales in comparison to that nonsense.



And so, who bestows the honorary title any way?


The 33rd Degree of the Scottish Rite? Why the Supreme Council (Officers) of the Scottish Rite of course. Who else?



I thought no one was in charge?


WELL! That's what you get for thinking (althought I do not believe you're capable of it...thinking that is) No one IS in charge of Masonry in general...but in each U.S. State and in each province in Canada and in each country elsewhere the Grand Lodge is in charge of the three degrees of "Symbolic" Masonry. Where a Grand Royal Arch Chapter exists, the Grand Chapter is in charge of the Royal Arch Chapters....the Grand Council is in charge of the Councils of Royal & Select Masters...the Grand Commandery is in charge of the Commanderies of Knights Templars....then there's the Allied Masonic Degrees (they are under the charge of the Grand Council of the Allied Masonic Degrees) the Knight Masons...they're under the control of the Knight Masons, U.S.A. There's the Royal Order of Scotland, they're under control of the Provincial Grand Lodge of the Royal Order of Scotland..... oh AkilleD, the list goes on and on. There are DOZENS of Masonic "bodies" that are in "recognition" with each other (which means they regard each other as legitimate) but there is NO man or GROUP OF MEN who are in control of ALL Freemasonry.....not of ANY Degree.

I realize that's difficult to understand (it took me a LONG time to sort it out) but Freemasonry is a conglomerate of organizations...all Masonic...and no matter what the title or degree....the Grand Lodge of the jurisdiction has the final say. ....ultimately the Grand Master OF that particular jurisdiction....and that Grand Master MAY have received the 33rd Degree because of his dedication to Freemasonry (and ONLY if he's a Scottish Rite Mason) but it could be (and often IS) that he's only a THIRD Degree "Master Mason" THIRD DEGREE = Master Mason. There is NOTHING "higher"

Again, I KNOW it's difficult for you to understand (and I DON'T mean that in an insulting manner) Masonry just doesn't function like a lot of anti-Masons and conspiracists SAY it does. That's because they don't understand it EITHER.

It's simply NOT what they say it is. I hate the term "liar" but I use it when referring to those people because I really don't know what else to call someone who lies.

[edit on 30-3-2005 by senrak]



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by mickmeaney
One thing I am sure of is the higher you climb in the Masons, the more information you are given.


How are you "sure" of this? Are you or have you ever been a Freemason? If not, please enlighten me as to how you're so "sure" of this?



I'm very interested in the theory that the public and low ranking Masons


What exactly ARE "low ranking" Masons? Let me give you an example.

I am a Master Mason (3rd Degree)
I am Past Master of my Lodge (that means I've served as Worshipful Master...presiding officer...in my local Lodge Hall) (1999)
I am a Royal Arch Mason (the terminal degree of the Royal Arch Chapter, one of the "bodies" of the York Rite system of the U.S.A.)
I am a Past High Priest of the Royal Arch Chapter (that means I've served as presiding officer of my local Royal Arch Chapter
I am a Royal & Select Master (the second part of the York Rite system of the U.S.A) and am Past Thrice Illustrious Master (presiding officer) of that organization.
I am a Knight Templar (the third part of the York Rite system of the U.S.A.) and am Past Eminent Commander (presiding officer) of that Masonic organization.
I am a member of the Allied Masonic Degrees (a Masonic organization that is invitational....i.e. membership is by invitation ONLY)
I am a member of the York Rite Sovereign College of the U.S.A. (another invitational Masonic organization)
I am a member of the Masonic Rosicrucians (the Masonic Societas Rosicruciana in Civitatibus Foederatis) ...ANOTHER invitational Masonic organization
I am a member of the Ancient Toltec Rite (you guessed it...ANOTHER invitational Masonic organization)
In the Scottish Rite I am not only a 32nd Degree Mason (Master of the Royal Secret) I was honored in 2001 by being invested as a Knight Commander of the Court of Honor (in the Southern Jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite, that's basically the step between the 32nd & the 33rd Degrees)

Oh, I'm also Past Patron of the Order of the Eastern Star, a Shriner, a member of the Royal Order of Scotland, the Sword of Bunker Hill and some other "stuff"

Would you consider ME to be a "low ranking" Mason? There's not much Masonically that I haven't done (what can I say...I LOVE Masonry). But let me clue you in (because you're obviously clueless). There are several Masons who post here who are 3rd Degree (Master Masons) . . . and I'm NO MORE A MASON than THEY are. There are NO "high ranking" Masons. There are Masons who've joined more Masonic groups...there are Masons who've received more honors...but there is NO HIGHER a Degree than that of Master Mason (THIRD degree)

That being said...again, how are you so "sure" about climbing higher? Did someone tell you this and you believed them? Worse yet did you read it on a web-site and believed it?



are told of 33 degrees, when there may be more.


More what? Degrees? There are other degrees. The 33rd Degree is NOT the highest degree...the 3rd is. There are other degrees but none"higher" than 3rd. The Scottish Rite consists of the 4th - 33rd Degrees...the York Rite degrees aren't Numbered, but consist of:

(Chapter)
Mark Master
Past Master
Most Excellent Master
Royal Arch Mason

(Council)
Royal Master
Select Master

(Commandery)
Knight of the Red Cross
Knight of Malta
Knight Templar


There are several other "side" degrees that are not part of the York Rite or the Scottish Rite.

Oh....and there's NO connection between the York Rite or the Scottish Rite.

A Mason (3rd Degree - Master Mason) can join either...or both....or NEITHER.

'nuff said.



[edit on 30-3-2005 by senrak]

[edit on 30-3-2005 by senrak]



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 08:41 PM
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Originally posted by mickmeaney
This www.conspiracyarchive.com... is something I found very interesting, if it's true or not I don't know.


It's NOT true. Read this. In fact, go to the beginning and read the WHOLE thing. If you found Shaw's lies "interesting" you'll find the truth REALLY interesting.

www.srmason-sj.org...



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