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Stripping the Physical

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posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 01:57 PM
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Scenario: A man has created a machine that can exactly replicate matter, exactly and so perfectly that he could copy me or you, right down to the cellular level.

So I have myself copied, do I now exist in two places at once, am I aware in two places at once?

Another Scenario: Technology has advanced to such a level that with nano technology, etc it is possible to replace your body with machine parts. I first replace my arms, then my legs, then I go all the way and replace my whole body, apart from my head (the technology is so advanced that I can acutally "feel" my new body, I can even have, and enjoy sex.

Now I start to replcace my head, little by little, peice by piece, now my brain, little by little, piece by piece...

Now I ask when do I cease to be me, what part is me? Some may say some specific part of my brain, then I ask what if we start to replace this as well, tiny piece, by miniscule piece...

Maybe in the end it is but a small spark, a small spark that is me - could this be my soul?




posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 04:07 PM
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If consciousness is made of chemical reactions and electrical signals in your brain, then it could be argued that each moment that passes you are different from the moment before, so that the words "me" and "I" only apply to the moment they are used.

With this line of reasoning, a copy would not be considered you, because it would be different almost immediately (different experiences, etc).

As for finding or even defining the soul... good luck.



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 04:21 PM
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I've always wondered this myself.
I would see the "copying" of u as a new entity, however, for the robotic replacing... I am baffeled

Very good topic



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 05:11 PM
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Edit: I pressed the wrong button. Wrong topic.

[edit on 28-2-2005 by IKnowNothing]

[edit on 28-2-2005 by IKnowNothing]



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 10:28 PM
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How bout this your brain is simply Neurons firing chemical reactions. so replace a neuron with a nano machine so it exactly replicates the neuron. if you do this to your whole brain technically youd still be you your still "firing" the same way nothings changed at all (except ur brains been...updated?).

Its called the Moravec Transfer and it is possible.(copy paste)

The key assumption of the Moravec Transfer is that we can perfectly simulate a single neuron, which Penrose and Hameroff would argue is untrue. (As of 1999, a lobster neuron has been successfully replaced with $7.50 worth of parts bought at Radio Shack; this is minor suggestive evidence, but it doesn't even come close to settling the issue.) The following discussion assumes that either (A) the laws of physics are computational or (B) we can build a "superneuron", a trans-Turing computer that does the same thing a neuron does. (Penrose and Hameroff have no objection to the latter proposition. If a neuron can take advantage of deep physics to perform noncomputable operations, we can do the same thing technologically.)

The scenario given also assumes sophisticated nanomedicine; i.e., nanomachines capable of carrying out complex instructions in a biological environment.


yudkowsky.net...-10 (its on the page for you to dont you love me?)



posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by afklop
If consciousness is made of chemical reactions and electrical signals in your brain, then it could be argued that each moment that passes you are different from the moment before, so that the words "me" and "I" only apply to the moment they are used.

With this line of reasoning, a copy would not be considered you, because it would be different almost immediately (different experiences, etc).


Yes I agree with this on the exact copy scenario...



posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by Civil44
How bout this your brain is simply Neurons firing chemical reactions. so replace a neuron with a nano machine so it exactly replicates the neuron. if you do this to your whole brain technically youd still be you your still "firing" the same way nothings changed at all (except ur brains been...updated?).


Yes it could be "updated" but I have a feeling that it wouldn't be you anymore - this is what I am looking for the part of my brain the defines me, my existance, the part that after everything else in my body had been replaced woud ensure the integrity of my identity! This I think would give true immortality - not just putting my brain in a machine and hooking up the nerves, I am talking about putting my existance in a machine.

I beleive this "existance" is unique, ie cannot be copied as I believe you can only exist in one place. I also believe it is quantifiable due to the fact that it can be contained in our brain. Maybe it is some for of electrical energy?


Originally posted by Civil44
Its called the Moravec Transfer and it is possible.(copy paste)


Sorry I really tried, but this stuff is way over my head LOL!

-Smokinjoe



posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 02:24 PM
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I saw an episode of stargate sg1 one time where, the 4 characters were caught on a spaceship and didnt know how to get home (actually ive seen many like that). In this particular one however, they eventually realise that they were copies of their respective originals. I dont normally find stargate a very powerful show, but i could certainly feel their psychological panic this time.

Just imagine waking up one morning, feeling perfectly normal, going about your morning routine, then meeting someone exactly like you, while they notify you that you are their clone... Yieks... that would be hard on me. But consider this: if you were copied, and your original was killed, you might never even know anything out of the ordinary happened.



posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 03:08 PM
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Lol Afklop good points id probobly faint right there. has anyone seen that new allstate commercial where the chinese guy clones himself(ping). thought that was funny. So many people on this forum compare stargate sg1 to theorys and stuff. i dont see how you can even watch it : \ but good thoughts : )



posted on Mar, 2 2005 @ 05:48 AM
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Originally posted by afklop
I dont normally find stargate a very powerful show, but i could certainly feel their psychological panic this time.

Just imagine waking up one morning, feeling perfectly normal, going about your morning routine, then meeting someone exactly like you, while they notify you that you are their clone...


Kinda reminds me of a dream I had once where I actually realised I was dreaming (they call lucid dreaming I think). In the dream I was talking to a woman and when I realised I was dreaming I told her such and I can still remember the look of sadness on her face...

Anyway how powerful is the brain - is it possible that it could create individual sentient beings? ie for the moments of your dream would it be possible for whole civilisations to be created and thrive? Civilisations of thinking, emotional entities? You would think there would not be the time, but I have found time can pass very slowly whilst dreaming...



posted on Mar, 2 2005 @ 08:34 PM
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If that is so, then what happens if God stops dreaming? *Twilight Zone Music*
As for replacement of brains, what if the machine gets something WRONG on a say... celluar level, and you suddenly change in a subtle way. That might make a good sci-fi movie...if it's not already taken.




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