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Cuomo worried that Democrat strategy to tax the rich not working in his state.

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posted on Feb, 5 2019 @ 01:08 PM
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originally posted by: interupt42

originally posted by: Ahabstar
There is a solution, but they won’t like it. Won’t like it one bit.

    Eliminate all (state and federal) income taxes, state and local sales taxes and other hidden taxes.

    A flat 10% sales tax. 5% stays in the state in which it is collected. 5% goes to the federal government in which 3% stays for operational costs of the federal government and 2% is redistributed to the 50 states as federal assisted funding programs.

    Social security and Medicare taxes can remain or reorganized as needed.


But this decentralizes federal power over the states and the people and has the misfortune of countering one party’s political platform and weakening the spending power of the other one. I’ll leave it to the reader to identify them.


Yep , there is a post here on a weekly basis that the rich pay the majority of taxes.

However , just about everyone of those studies is BS and solely based on the supposed TAX bracket and does not account for the deductions, exemptions, loop holes, and creative accounting including overseas.

The flat tax would eliminate the deductions which is basically the loopholes for the extremely wealthy. No way Jeff bezos , musk, gates, etc want to pay the same tax to income ratio the middle class pays without their loopholes.



What leftist have promoted a flat tax? All we hear from the left is more taxes.

Many on the right have long advocated for a flat tax and fair tax. The tax code is how politicians dole out favors. We need lower rates across the board and no deductions.

The rich do pay the lion share of taxes. This is undisputable, even with whatever creative accounting they can get away with. Remember, the bottom 50% Pay nothing.

People who get screwed are the working upper class... people making say $250-$1 million / yr.




posted on Feb, 5 2019 @ 01:20 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

You are incorrect on several accounts. They may “work” 100 hours a week, but their work does not consist of creating anything, it consists of extracting money from people who actually create stuff. And hedge funds don’t get paid based off people making money, they get paid per trade, whether the investors make money off the trade or lose money off the trade. And a huge chunk of the money they make comes from “investors” buying companies, liquidating (stealing) the pensions, liquidating assets and firing workers to shrink costs. Extractive. This has been the us standard business for some time and is the only way to make profit in a shrinking, saturated market. This is the whole problem with our corporate model. When the market is saturated, and the economy is shrinking, the only way to increase profit is by caninalizing the workers. And this is the only type of business loans banks give in the us. Banks do not provide loans to start new business. They only give loans to plunder and cannibalizes existing businesses.



posted on Feb, 5 2019 @ 01:24 PM
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As for it being my grandmothers pensions.... it was a scam that shifted her pensions from the profit she made for the company onto the stock market. That doesn’t mean the current model should be supported, it just means that they had no care for my grandmother and her generation, or ours, when they decided to steal all the profit she created and kick her hope of retirement into the gambling market. Further, the pension handlers are usually the worst of the fund managers on the worst of the market which is why the pensioners took the biggest hit on mortgage backed securities and sub prime loans. Idiots who bet old people’s futures on junk stocks.



posted on Feb, 5 2019 @ 01:30 PM
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To add, the stock market is a huge scam made to steal massive amounts of money for the wealthy while doing no work. When a company wants to go public they go to Goldman, or some other funding house to front the initial offer. That funding group then gets first options to buy those stocks with no competition. They know new stocks usually double in price the first day, so they buy a ton of the stocks. The price soars, and then they sell it all off. It then goes down to its natural value. In case you don’t understand what this means, it’s a huge, instant, first day extraction of profit for the funding bankers stealing a huge chunk of money from both the company and all the people buying the stock after them, while doing nothing to earn it. It’s insider trading of the worst sort, built into the system, only for the banks.



posted on Feb, 5 2019 @ 01:30 PM
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Double post
edit on 5-2-2019 by pexx421 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2019 @ 01:39 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated




What leftist have promoted a flat tax? All we hear from the left is more taxes.


I didn't mention anything about the left, so I hope you didn't think i was favoring them, As both party are full of Shatz .

However, we don't hear a real push for flat tax from neither party. The closest we came was with 9-9-9 guy who got crucified in the elections.




Many on the right have long advocated for a flat tax and fair tax. The tax code is how politicians dole out favors. We need lower rates across the board and no deductions.


The right also advocates for smaller gov't while creating homeland security, patriot act, bailouts using tax payers money, and siding with fed gov't over state rights.

Until I see action I consider advocating as used car salesman tactics.



The tax code is how politicians dole out favors. We need lower rates across the board and no deductions.

I completely agree, especially with the NO deductions.





The rich do pay the lion share of taxes. This is undisputable, even with whatever creative accounting they can get away with.

I'm not so certain on that. Like I said the studies I have seen don't take to account the loopholes available including oversea tax shelters, paying themselves 30K a year salaries etc.




People who get screwed are the working upper class... people making say $250-$1 million / yr.

Don't disagree, but I would add any w2 employee making over 100-250K a year to the bunch with limited deductions.


edit on 00228America/ChicagoTue, 05 Feb 2019 14:00:50 -0600000000p2842 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2019 @ 01:53 PM
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The problem is this. An economy has to be a circle. Money has to be spent on jobs, workers create value added products and make money to buy those products, businesses make profit from workers buying their products, they expand and hire workers, etc. This is how economies grow. This is not what’s happening in the us. Here, Businesses aren’t growing industry or value added products. They are either butchering and canibalizingg businesses as I stated above, or they inflate their own stocks through buybacks. Or they gamble on the market, inflating others stocks. Or they invest it in lobbying to pass legislation to give them more money. Wages stagnate. Jobs stagnate. The economy contracts. Prices and debt continue to go up, leading to debt deflation. The rentier class and bankers make more money without creating a value added product, ie stealing wealth from workers. The economy then looks as it does today.



posted on Feb, 5 2019 @ 01:55 PM
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This is why the rich need to be taxed more, and why a flat tax won’t work. A flat tax is not enough to circulate the wealth back into the functional economy. The wealthy aren’t spending the money to grow the economy. Either will only end in complete meltdown over time.



posted on Feb, 5 2019 @ 02:04 PM
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There is positive economics and negative economics. Positive economics are things that grow the economy. Creating value added products, where a fair product is exchanged for a fair price. Infrastructure is created, facilitating economic growth and providing jobs at the same time. Good paying jobs are created.

Negative economics are things that take liquidity from the economy. Banks make money by taking it from workers, in many predatory fashions. Rents increase without enlarging the rented space or adding any amenities. Monopolies charge exhorbitant rates for utilities that were initially paid for by tax payers. These are counted towards gdp as symbols of growth when, in fact, they shrink the available fluidity in the economy and should be subtracted from gdp.

The idea that all profit is “earned” and equal is a fallacy. Some profit is created. Other profit is taken at other people’s expense. No economic model will be valid until it takes these differences into account, and none of our models do. You can say bankers “work” all you want. Similarly, if I go to my neighbors home, beat him down and take his stuff, that’s work as well. Doesn’t mean it’s right, or that I earned it fair. I’d definitely liken many of our current corporate models the same way, as they use the imbalance of power between us and them to forcibly remove property and earnings from me, often without my permission.



posted on Feb, 5 2019 @ 02:04 PM
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originally posted by: pexx421
This is why the rich need to be taxed more, and why a flat tax won’t work.


Thats exactly what the rich wan't. Don't you find it odd that the rich who do the lobbying aren't pushing for a flat tax?

The rich are already taxed more and they could care less if you charge them 100% because they have deductions.
The tax rate is meaningless as long as you have deductions.

That is why we need a flat tax with no deductions and this is why NEITHER party is pushing for it. The loopholes are in the deductions.

We need the billionaires to pay the same tax to income ratio as joe the plumber pays with no deductions.


edit on 06228America/ChicagoTue, 05 Feb 2019 14:06:12 -0600000000p2842 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2019 @ 02:28 PM
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a reply to: interupt42

Incorrect. Because joe the plumber will still be paying far more of a percentage. He will be paying the flat tax on 100% of his earnings. Because he spends all of it. And more. The top brackets will be paying the flat tax on a fraction of a percent of their earnings. Because they don’t buy products with all their money, just a small portion of it. 100% of the plumbers income will be recycled to grow the economy, as it is now. Less than 1% of a multi millionaires money will be taxed. Loopholes can be completely closed, as can offshoring. No deductions allowed, all business in a state or nation taxed as it’s done in that state or nation. And all taxes should only come from disposable income. If you have no disposable income, no taxes for you. If you have massive disposable income, massive taxes on that disposable income. And capital gains should be the bread and butter of taxes. I’d be all for no taxes at all on labor nor on corporations creating actual value added products at reasonable, non monopoly prices. Any intellectual properties and royalties should be taxed hugely as well.



posted on Feb, 5 2019 @ 02:29 PM
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Double post
edit on 5-2-2019 by pexx421 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2019 @ 03:00 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated



Many on the right have long advocated for a flat tax and fair tax. The tax code is how politicians dole out favors. We need lower rates across the board and no deductions.


This excerpt right here is one of the most beautiful things I have ever read on ATS. So much truth in a few sentences is rarely seen,

Kudos to you, sir.




posted on Feb, 5 2019 @ 03:14 PM
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originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Edumakated



Many on the right have long advocated for a flat tax and fair tax. The tax code is how politicians dole out favors. We need lower rates across the board and no deductions.


This excerpt right here is one of the most beautiful things I have ever read on ATS. So much truth in a few sentences is rarely seen,

Kudos to you, sir.



It should be obvious to those on the right and the left.

The tax code is an abomination and utterly ridiculous. The right won't do anything to simplify because of what I said, they use the tax code as a way to hide graft/giveaways to lobbyists. The left is too blinded by their envy / greed to tax the rich to see that lower rates / fewer deductions would go along way to benefiting everyone and removing a tool of political corruption.



posted on Feb, 5 2019 @ 03:17 PM
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a reply to: interupt42

Another reason neither party pushes for that kind of system is that it would remove their ability to reward their cronies and punish their enemies with tax policy. A flat tax rate has no deductions or loopholes and no room for them to be added, so there's no opportunity to create winners and losers through tax policy.



posted on Feb, 5 2019 @ 03:26 PM
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originally posted by: StallionDuck
a reply to: DanDanDat

See... Here in lies the problem.

You tax the rich, the rich leave. Rightly so.

You don't want the rich to leave because they help keep your votes in check when you need them and tax revenue for the jobs they create. Sooooooo... You tax the middle class.

The middle class leave but just as with any vacuum... more come along to fill those spots.


Problem is... No one really cares about the middle class.

I'm not about taxing the rich for their hard earned money but I'm doubly not about taxing the middle class for working 10x as hard for the scraps they're left with after bills.


Let's tax the poor from here on out. Those poor bastards aren't going anywhere. Should help close the deficit.

Or... I'm just throwing out ideas here... Now hear me out on this one...


We could stop spending way more money than we have in tax revenue...



posted on Feb, 5 2019 @ 03:28 PM
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originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: interupt42

Incorrect. Because joe the plumber will still be paying far more of a percentage. He will be paying the flat tax on 100% of his earnings. Because he spends all of it. And more


you are talking about a sales tax not income tax.

Both Joe the plumber and Mr CEO would pay x% on income .

irregardless


The top brackets will be paying the flat tax on a fraction of a percent of their earnings. Because they don’t buy products with all their money, just a small portion of it

While they might not buy products with ALL their money, they sure buy more in a month than most joe plumbers would be buying in a lifetime with jets, yachts, 8 homes, etc...



posted on Feb, 5 2019 @ 03:30 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: interupt42

Another reason neither party pushes for that kind of system is that it would remove their ability to reward their cronies and punish their enemies with tax policy. A flat tax rate has no deductions or loopholes and no room for them to be added, so there's no opportunity to create winners and losers through tax policy.


You get it , too bad most can't understand it. As long as deductions exists the middle class will continue to get shafted.
edit on 31228America/ChicagoTue, 05 Feb 2019 15:31:23 -0600000000p2842 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2019 @ 03:31 PM
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originally posted by: projectvxn
This isn't rocket surgery.

There may be a lot of millionaires in NY, but they will leave and rightly so, if the government thinks they can confiscate their wealth to fund their stupid programs.


Doesn't need to be millionaires, I left CA and will never go back... Ca is like 19 billion in the hole and if you look at their population between 2007 and 2016 6 million left the state and 5 million came into the state. I would bet a beer that the 6 million that left were upper middle class or higher and the 5 million that came in were very low middle class or lower...



posted on Feb, 5 2019 @ 03:36 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

I sort of like the national sales tax. Make retail food exempt. Every other transaction in the country gets hit with the tax (including stock purchases). No audits (except of businesses), no filing taxes for people (just businesses), everyone gets a full check to spend bow they please, puts a damper on market volatility. Could even add a VAT on purchases over 100k to soak the rich (and middle class homebuyers).

I'd even be okay with a graduated tax.


But you're absolutely right, the scam of the century is the businesses and cronies getting one-liners into tax code that keeps revenues down. Eliminating all the exemptions should be priority one if you want to fix the tax code. Can't have any or then it just becomes a game of who gets what.



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